(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 99% are matching the English template. - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers of an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation.
Bug 1751288 Comment 12 Edit History
Note: The actual edited comment in the bug view page will always show the original commenter’s name and original timestamp.
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 99% are matching the English template. - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation.
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 99% are matching the English template. - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation.
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 98% are matching the English template. - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation.
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 98% are matching the English template. - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation (and I wonder if they actually maintain their own documentation).
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 98% are matching the English template (and iiuc we encourage that). - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation (and I wonder if they actually maintain their own documentation).
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there are several misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 98% are matching the English template (and iiuc we encourage that). - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save Thunderbird team a lot of work and hassles to deal with the fallouts/bugs when localizers get their own set of shortcuts wrong. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation (and I wonder if they actually maintain their own documentation).
(In reply to Rob Lemley [:rjl] from comment #11) > Comment on attachment 9302035 [details] [diff] [review] > [patch for ESR 102] Bug 1751288 - Restore keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Cmd+N for creating a new contact in the Address Book (ESR 102). r=aleca > L10n review + (sort of) Thanks for reviewing and accepting this patch which Mike has volunteered to fix according to the books on Trunk (missing the feature I guess), and which Wayne has explicitly asked me to port to ESR102 "without new strings" (missing the feature I guess). > (In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8) > > Looks like we have lost the old string for the shortcut, but I think there's no problem with hard-coding the shortcut until the next ESR. In fact, this has a great cost/benefit ratio (UX-papercut), as anyone who may need to create dozens of contacts everyday in the enterprise will testify! > > I strongly disagree with this approach. We need to get rid of the idea that it's okay to ship features "English-only". Huh?? I think there may be some misunderstandings here. - I don't know whose idea you're talking about, but it's not mine and a temporary fix (for 6 months until the proper fix lands in the next release) wouldn't carry any ideas except providing better UX to our users asap and working around the well-known problem that we claim to be unable to land new strings between releases (a stupid limitation which I have always advocated should be changed!). - Keyboard shortcuts (as opposed to access keys) in Thunderbird (and FF too) have never really been translated. Yes in theory we have the characters (not even the modifiers) in localization, but if you were to check on all shortcuts, you'll find that 98% are matching the English template (and iiuc we encourage that). - While there's pros and cons about localizing shortcuts, here's some benefits of *not* localizing shortcuts: - Save localizers from an endless hassle to get it right. Change Ctrl+N to Ctrl+* for your locale, and you may end up having to change the entire set, because the letters of the alphabet are limited and we're using pretty much all of them. - Save Thunderbird team a lot of work and hassles to deal with the fallouts/bugs when localizers get their own set of shortcuts wrong. - Save support and documentation loads of hassle, work, and confusion with different shortcuts for each localization. - Make it easier for international teams using Thunderbird to have a one-for-all set of shortcuts which they can rely on, easy to teach, memorize and document. - English as a worldwide lingua franca is not a bad choice for global shortcuts. Moreover, Ctrl+N actually happens to be one of those universal swiss-knife shortcuts. I'm more than happy that all my German applications, and any applications worldwide for that sake, respond to Ctrl+C for copy, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste, Ctrl+N for new stuff, Ctrl+S for save, and Ctrl+P for print. That actually simplifies working with software a lot, for everyone! > I am okay with this one case though. I tracked down the old string, and looked at how the various languages translated it. Overwhelmingly, they used "N" for "newContact.key". (63 of 65). > > The two exceptions for the old string are Armenian "Հ" and Serbian "Н". > I'll also note that the new string, Basque is using "B" and Ukrainian is using "Н". Rare exceptions, I guess they are not fully aware of the consequences of having to maintain your own set of shortcuts in localization and documentation (and I wonder if they actually maintain their own documentation).