Bugzilla

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #5)
> (In reply to Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2) from comment #3)
> > That attachment button has always been there since - I don't know - TB 3.6? Before it was in the toolbar on the left, then it was moved to the right above the area where the attachment pane opens. Can you show evidence that this has ever caused an issue, are the bugs reported?
> 
> Maybe it reported, but I'm not aware of a report, but that doesn't mean it was all good. That you click around and sometimes it willl bring up a file prompt is clearly unexpected.

Yes, unexpected because it was a bug. Generally, "clicking around" is not a typical modus operandi. You helpfully fixed part of bug 1613004 that clicking on whitespace with selected attachments would prematurely fire attach dialog instead of deselecting first. Unfortunately, users also lost ability to click on whitespace for adding attachments, and it's now inconsistent in Daily (works on empty bucket, fails on full bucket). After deselecting, there is no reason to click on whitespace again unless it's intentional (for adding more attachments, as advertised by dynamic tooltip, feature removed in Daily). Admittedly, tooltip is a bit volatile - we can change that, and even change mouse pointer. To further guard against selection misclicks, we can easily do this: whenever you hold Ctrl or Shift whilst accidentally clicking whitespace, don't trigger attach dialog (even without selected attachments). With that, selection misclicks are really all but impossible - missing an entire attachment item as a click target is pretty hard.

> > Well, start a new message, now how to add an attachment? Your button isn't there, so you can't click it. 
> 
> There's the toolbar button which then logically brings up the attachment picker. 

Yes. Always logically brings up attachment picker - so why duplicate this functionality with another button?

> >  Additionally you can already click on the pane
> 
> Not discoverable, and not working if you had no empty area to click on. Since the toolbar Attach button showed the pane last time, I would frankly have guessed clicking it again would toggle it hidden.

Hmmm, not really... I guess that's a wrong guess.
- The toolbar button is labeled "Attach" and does not look nor behave like a disclosure button in any way.
- It has a tooltip "Add an attachment", and triggers the dialog first *before* showing the pane.
- I am yet to see a split disclosure button with a dropdown - split buttons offer a default action and alternative actions.
So mistaking that for a mere disclosure button isn't easy imho.
 
> This is a problem where different combinations of clicking would also serve dual use as bringing up the file picker or not.

Well, the primary click target for attachcing is big attach button on toolbar. No one is forcing you to click on whitespace for adding attachments if you personally don't like that. For others, it's just conenience which rocks once discovered, and not hard to discover from the tooltips (which however should be less volatile).

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #5)
> (In reply to Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2) from comment #3)
> > That attachment button has always been there since - I don't know - TB 3.6? Before it was in the toolbar on the left, then it was moved to the right above the area where the attachment pane opens. Can you show evidence that this has ever caused an issue, are the bugs reported?
> 
> Maybe it reported, but I'm not aware of a report, but that doesn't mean it was all good. That you click around and sometimes it willl bring up a file prompt is clearly unexpected.

Yes, unexpected because it was a bug. Generally, "clicking around" is not a typical modus operandi. You helpfully fixed part of bug 1613004 that clicking on whitespace with selected attachments would prematurely fire attach dialog instead of deselecting first. Unfortunately, users also lost ability to click on whitespace for adding attachments, and it's now inconsistent in Daily (works on empty bucket, fails on full bucket). After deselecting, there is no reason to click on whitespace again unless it's intentional (for adding more attachments, as advertised by dynamic tooltip, feature removed in Daily). Admittedly, tooltip is a bit volatile - we can change that, and even change mouse pointer. To further guard against selection misclicks, we can easily do this: whenever you hold Ctrl or Shift whilst accidentally clicking whitespace, don't trigger attach dialog (even without selected attachments). With that, selection misclicks are really all but impossible - missing an entire attachment item as a click target is pretty hard.

> > Well, start a new message, now how to add an attachment? Your button isn't there, so you can't click it. 
> 
> There's the toolbar button which then logically brings up the attachment picker. 

Yes. Always logically brings up attachment picker - so why duplicate this functionality with another button?

> >  Additionally you can already click on the pane
> 
> Not discoverable, and not working if you had no empty area to click on. Since the toolbar Attach button showed the pane last time, I would frankly have guessed clicking it again would toggle it hidden.

Hmmm, not really... I guess that's a wrong guess.
- The toolbar button is labeled "Attach" and does not look nor behave like a disclosure button in any way.
- It has a tooltip "Add an attachment", and triggers the dialog first *before* showing the pane (only if you really attached a file).
- I am yet to see a split disclosure button with a dropdown - split buttons offer a default action and alternative actions.
So mistaking that for a mere disclosure button isn't easy imho.
 
> This is a problem where different combinations of clicking would also serve dual use as bringing up the file picker or not.

Well, the primary click target for attachcing is big attach button on toolbar. No one is forcing you to click on whitespace for adding attachments if you personally don't like that. For others, it's just conenience which rocks once discovered, and not hard to discover from the tooltips (which however should be less volatile).

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #5)
> (In reply to Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2) from comment #3)
> > That attachment button has always been there since - I don't know - TB 3.6? Before it was in the toolbar on the left, then it was moved to the right above the area where the attachment pane opens. Can you show evidence that this has ever caused an issue, are the bugs reported?
> 
> Maybe it reported, but I'm not aware of a report, but that doesn't mean it was all good. That you click around and sometimes it willl bring up a file prompt is clearly unexpected.

Yes, unexpected because it was a bug. Generally, "clicking around" is not a typical modus operandi. You helpfully fixed part of bug 1613004 that clicking on whitespace with selected attachments would prematurely fire attach dialog instead of deselecting first. Unfortunately, users also lost ability to click on whitespace for adding attachments, and it's now inconsistent in Daily (works on empty bucket, fails on full bucket). After deselecting, there is no reason to click on whitespace again unless it's intentional (for adding more attachments, as advertised by dynamic tooltip, feature removed in Daily). Admittedly, tooltip is a bit volatile - we can change that, and even change mouse pointer. To further guard against selection misclicks, we can easily do this: whenever you hold Ctrl or Shift whilst accidentally clicking whitespace, don't trigger attach dialog (even without selected attachments). With that, selection misclicks are really all but impossible - missing an entire attachment item as a click target is pretty hard.

> > Well, start a new message, now how to add an attachment? Your button isn't there, so you can't click it. 
> 
> There's the toolbar button which then logically brings up the attachment picker. 

Yes. Always logically brings up attachment picker - so why duplicate this functionality with another button?

> >  Additionally you can already click on the pane
> 
> Not discoverable, and not working if you had no empty area to click on. Since the toolbar Attach button showed the pane last time, I would frankly have guessed clicking it again would toggle it hidden.

Hmmm, not really... I guess that's a wrong guess.
- The toolbar button is labeled "Attach" and does not look nor behave like a disclosure button in any way.
- It has a tooltip "Add an attachment", and triggers the dialog first *before* showing the pane (only if you really attached a file).
- I am yet to see a split disclosure button with a dropdown - split buttons offer a default action and alternative actions.
So mistaking that for a mere disclosure button isn't easy imho.
 
> This is a problem where different combinations of clicking would also serve dual use as bringing up the file picker or not.

Well, the primary click target for attaching is big attach button on toolbar. No one is forcing you to click on whitespace for adding attachments if you personally don't like that. For others, it's just conenience which rocks once discovered, and not hard to discover from the tooltips (which however should be less volatile).

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #5)
> (In reply to Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2) from comment #3)
> > That attachment button has always been there since - I don't know - TB 3.6? Before it was in the toolbar on the left, then it was moved to the right above the area where the attachment pane opens. Can you show evidence that this has ever caused an issue, are the bugs reported?
> 
> Maybe it reported, but I'm not aware of a report, but that doesn't mean it was all good. That you click around and sometimes it willl bring up a file prompt is clearly unexpected.

Yes, unexpected because it was a bug. Generally, "clicking around" is not a typical modus operandi. You helpfully fixed part of bug 1613004 that clicking on whitespace with selected attachments would prematurely fire attach dialog instead of deselecting first. Unfortunately, users also lost ability to click on whitespace for adding attachments, and it's now inconsistent in Daily (works on empty bucket, fails on full bucket). After deselecting, there is no reason to click on whitespace again unless it's intentional (for adding more attachments, as advertised by dynamic tooltip, feature removed in Daily). Admittedly, tooltip is a bit volatile - we can change that, and even change mouse pointer. To further guard against selection misclicks, we can easily do this: whenever you hold Ctrl or Shift whilst accidentally clicking whitespace, don't trigger attach dialog (even without selected attachments). With that, selection misclicks are really all but impossible - missing an entire attachment item as a click target is pretty hard.

> > Well, start a new message, now how to add an attachment? Your button isn't there, so you can't click it. 
> 
> There's the toolbar button which then logically brings up the attachment picker. 

Yes. Always logically brings up attachment picker - so why duplicate this functionality with another button?

> >  Additionally you can already click on the pane
> 
> Not discoverable, and not working if you had no empty area to click on. Since the toolbar Attach button showed the pane last time, I would frankly have guessed clicking it again would toggle it hidden.

Hmmm, not really... I guess that's a wrong guess.
- The toolbar button is labeled "Attach" and does not look nor behave like a disclosure button in any way.
- It has a tooltip "Add an attachment", and triggers the dialog first *before* showing the pane (only if you really attached a file).
- I am yet to see a split disclosure button with a dropdown - split buttons offer a default action and alternative actions.
So mistaking that for a mere disclosure button isn't easy imho.
 
> This is a problem where different combinations of clicking would also serve dual use as bringing up the file picker or not.

Well, the primary click target for attaching is big attach button on toolbar. No one is forcing you to click on whitespace for adding attachments if you personally don't like that. For others, it's just convenience which rocks once discovered, and not hard to discover from the tooltips (which however should be less volatile).