1342695 - Duplicate support requests problem. Need link to Forum rules and guidelines on "New Post" page

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(support.mozilla.org - Lithium :: Contributor and Question Forums, defect)

Description

[u277459]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0
Build ID: 20170125094131

Steps to reproduce:

Currently people can post a new support request in forums/boards without ever seeing any reference to the "Forum rules and guidelines".


Actual results:

There is a spate of people making duplicate posts lately.


Expected results:

Put a link to "Forum rules and guidelines" on the top of the "New Post" webpage.  Also put a reminder to not post their question/issue more than once.

https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Mozilla-EN/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum

Comment 1

[Alice Wyman]

This bug looks similar to bug 681675 which was resolved "WONTFIX" in 2014 (by Joni Savage) and again in 2015 (by madalina). 

I'll NeedInfo Rachel, to see if this bug should be resolved as a duplicate of bug 681675 or if it should be confirmed and moved to the Questions component, since it isn't a Lithium Migration issue. 

For the record:
"Forum rules and guidelines" is currently in the Documents Archive:
https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Documents-Archive/Forum-rules-and-guidelines/ta-p/3824

Rachel created a new "Support Forum Community Guidelines" article based on that content:
https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Contributor-Knowledge-Base/Support-Forum-Community-Guidelines/ta-p/1360770

Comment 2

[Alice Wyman]

By the way, the old SUMO site product landing pages linked to the "Get community Support" article,  which included a "Forum rules and guidelines" link. This is no longer the case since the Lithium migration (which I mentioned in bug 1342154 comment 1).  The "Get community support" article was also placed in on the Documents Archive but I moved it to the Contributor Knowledge Base and made a few updates, since it can still be a useful article:
https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Contributor-Knowledge-Base/Get-community-support/ta-p/26357

Comment 3

[u277459]

Since the change to Lithium, a person can go from the main support page https://support.mozilla.org/ to asking for help without seeing anything about forum rules.

The "Get community support" page is not seen at all during this.

Bug 681675 seems to have had little public discussion, and why it was resolved as WONTFIX was not declared.  In the forum discussion about it, it appears that the reason for the bug to be ignored was that people will not read rules before they post.

My immediate concern is that there are many people posting their requests for help more than once.  Several more did it again in the past 24 hours in the Thunderbird forum/board.

I agree that people will probably not read forum rules before posting, but they won't miss "Do not post your support request more than once" if it is placed prominently on the "New Post" page.

Until this happens, the duplicate posts are going to continue, and will need more moderator attention to deal with.

Comment 4

[Alice Wyman]

https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Moderator-Discussions/Unlock-archived-duplicate/m-p/1360662 (accessible to moderators and admin only) includes this Feb 09,2017 comment from philipp:
"duplicate threads seem to be quite common on this platform unfortunately (i think unless a user verifies their account via mail the questions doesn't show up in the forum & they try again and again)."

Comment 5

[madalina]

We will look at this in phase 2 of the project. Assigning it to myself

Comment 6

[Alice Wyman]

Related discussion on the duplicate posts problem:
https://support.mozilla.org/t5/SUMO-community-discussions/Why-so-many-duplicate-posts/m-p/1368989

Comment 7

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

An easy fix would be to add a custom component to the "Post Page" in Studio, however it looks like this is user story to include in the AAQ discussion as well. 

@Roland can we add this use case to your AAQ project?

Comment 8

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

We might also add a note to the user that their post will not appear until they have verified their account.

Comment 9

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

Added this user story to the AAQ project plan ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/12S11IlVGbsiDkDxRO1HjjZGGblU-i6D8iP7EcEXQ5RA/edit ) :
"As a Firefox user, I don’t want to post duplicate questions by mistake or if my account is unverified and I would like to know what the etiquette and culture of asking a support question is."

Comment 10

[Alice Wyman]

I just noticed that all of the SUMO discussion forums and forum threads include a link to the "Forum rules and guidelines" article https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Contributor-Knowledge-Base/Forum-rules-and-guidelines/ta-p/3824 (which was recently updated and moved out of the archive) but for some reason, the support forums/threads don't. See this thread for details:
https://support.mozilla.org/t5/SUMO-community-discussions/Links-to-Forum-rules-and-guidelines/m-p/1378028#M25881

Comment 11

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

It is really easy to add a link in the footer "Get Community Support", Joni or Vesper do you have access to change the community footer?

Comment 12

[Alice Wyman]

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #11)
> It is really easy to add a link in the footer "Get Community Support", Joni
> or Vesper do you have access to change the community footer?

I mentioned the "Get community support" article in comment 2 (in case you missed it) 

(from comment #2)
> By the way, the old SUMO site product landing pages linked to the "Get
> community Support" article,  which included a "Forum rules and guidelines"
> link. This is no longer the case since the Lithium migration (which I
> mentioned in bug 1342154 comment 1).  The "Get community support" article
> was also placed in on the Documents Archive but I moved it to the
> Contributor Knowledge Base and made a few updates, since it can still be a
> useful article:
> https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Contributor-Knowledge-Base/Get-community-support/ta-p/26357

Comment 13

[Patrick McClard;pmcclard]

I don't think adding a link to the forum rules will curb this behavior. I found some info on 'Flood Controls' offered in Lithium. Rachel can you take a look?

https://community.lithium.com/t5/Community-FAQ-s/Flood-controls/ta-p/75530

Comment 14

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

SGTM here are some drafted solutions we can take a look into: 

A user can't make more than 1 post in 180000 milliseconds.  (3 minutes)
A user can't make more than 20 posts in 1800000 milliseconds (30 mins)

Comment 15

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

After Michal adds his recommendations here, can you file a support ticket with Lithium?

Comment 16

[vesper]

For the footer, please refer to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1338532 - I'm already adding the string here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ay5nOasSZLIsjaCvEMc7wT6N_Wrrhb1zIya18hnbS5I/edit#gid=0 (it should be live later today).

Can you please provide me with a list of:

locale the footer link should be in + what should the "Get Community Support" URL for the locale link to - for each locale you need it in?

Cheers!

Comment 17

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

For the existing Forum locales: 
These are not uniform pages, as some have custom pages and some are just links to ask a question: 

cs - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-cs/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum
en-US - [as requested] https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Contributor-Knowledge-Base/Get-community-support/ta-p/26357
fi - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-fi/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum
hu - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-hu/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum
pt-Br - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Documents-Archive/Obter-suporte-da-comunidade/ta-p/8331
sl - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-sk/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum
tr - https://support.mozilla.org/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-tr/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum

For external locales that I know exist (may need your review)

de - https://www.camp-firefox.de/forum/
fr - https://mozillazine-fr.org/ or http://www.mozfr.org/
it - https://www.mozillaitalia.org/home/ 
jp - http://mozillazine.jp/
kr - http://forums.mozilla.or.kr/
China - http://mozilla.com.cn/moz-forum.html
ru - {via http://mozilla-russia.org/about/} facebook and twitter pages for help: https://www.facebook.com/MozillaRussia/ and https://twitter.com/mozilla_russia

arabic: http://arabicmozilla.org/
Balkans mailing list https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/community-balkans

There are a couple of sites that are no longer maintained and there are a number of communities on facebook and twitter that may need to be reached out to before posting official links. 

That is my draft, feel free to edit and correct.

Comment 18

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #15)
> After Michal adds his recommendations here, can you file a support ticket
> with Lithium?

Was a Lithium Ticket for this filed ?

Have we considered issues we had in Kisune where Admins had to  intervene and add people to trusted groups. 
Is there any danger this could be a foot gun? 
Could flood control restrictions hit contributors using their own canned responses, or Mods trying to deal with spam or abuse for instance.

Comment 19

[vesper]

This was deployed to http://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/ (you may need to an a security exception to access this site).

Please review the following footers and let me know if anything needs editing/changing:

1) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/%D8%AF%D8%B9%D9%85-%D9%81%D9%8E%D9%8A%D9%8E%D8%B1%D9%81%D9%8F%D9%83%D8%B3-%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A/ct-p/ar?profile.language=ar
2) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Podpora-Mozilly-%C4%8Ce%C5%A1tina/ct-p/cs?profile.language=cs
3) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Support-Dansk/ct-p/da?profile.language=da
4) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Hilfe-Deutsch/ct-p/de?profile.language=de
5) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Support-%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC/ct-p/el?profile.language=el
6) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Support-English/ct-p/Mozilla-EN?profile.language=en
7) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Soporte-de-Mozilla-Espa%C3%B1ol/ct-p/es?profile.language=es
8) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-tuki-suomi/ct-p/fi?profile.language=fi
9) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Assistance-de-Mozilla-Fran%C3%A7ais/ct-p/fr?profile.language=fr
10) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-t%C3%A1mogat%C3%A1s-Magyar/ct-p/hu?profile.language=hu
11) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Dukungan-Mozilla-Bahasa/ct-p/id?profile.language=in
12) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Supporto-Mozilla-Italiano/ct-p/it?profile.language=it
13) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-%E3%82%B5%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9E/ct-p/ja?profile.language=ja
14) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-%EB%8F%84%EC%9B%80%EB%A7%90-%ED%95%9C%EA%B5%AD%EC%96%B4/ct-p/ko?profile.language=ko
15) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Support-Nederlands/ct-p/nl?profile.language=nl
16) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Pomoc-Mozilli-polski/ct-p/pl?profile.language=pl
17) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Suporte-Mozilla-Portugu%C3%AAs-do/ct-p/pt-br?profile.language=pt-br
18) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Suporte-Mozilla-Portugu%C3%AAs-do/ct-p/pt-br?profile.language=pt-pt
19) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Podpora-Mozilly-sloven%C4%8Dina/ct-p/sk?profile.language=sk
20) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Podpora-Mozilly-sloven%C4%8Dina/ct-p/sk?profile.language=tr
21) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-Support-Svenska/ct-p/sv?profile.language=sv
22) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%BA%D0%B0-Mozilla-%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/ct-p/ru?profile.language=ru
23) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/%D0%9F%D1%96%D0%B4%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B0-Mozilla-%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0/ct-p/uk?profile.language=uk
24) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-%E6%8A%80%E6%9C%AF%E6%94%AF%E6%8C%81-%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87-%E7%AE%80%E4%BD%93/ct-p/zh-cn?profile.language=zh-CN
25) https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/Mozilla-%E6%8A%80%E8%A1%93%E6%94%AF%E6%8F%B4-%E6%AD%A3%E9%AB%94%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87-%E7%B9%81%E9%AB%94/ct-p/zh-tw?profile.language=zh-TW

Comment 20

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

Hi Michal, I am wondering what was deployed ?
Maybe it would help if you provide a screenshot of en-US before and after the change.

Are you asking Madalina as assignee to agree all of the 25 listed versions?
Presumably your own L10n leads provided or approved any wordind specific to their own locales.

Has employing the Flood Control method been abandoned ?

Do we have any locales that have both a Sumo aaq support forum and an external support forum?
(Or where we are working on providing one)
If so what policy is being followed ? For instance
Link only to the external forum
Link only to Sumo
Link to both
If we link to both do we emphasise one over the other ?
Do we want to compete with existing fora and risk bad feeling has this been discussed ? Where ??
If we only link to an external forum do we need a Sumo one for that Locale?

Comment 21

[vesper]

(In reply to John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me) from comment #20)
> Hi Michal, I am wondering what was deployed ?
> Maybe it would help if you provide a screenshot of en-US before and after
> the change.

That's a great point, John. This bug has been quite complex and my 'this' definitely does not make much sense.

The change is: the footer should now have "Get Community Support" in the languages listed above, with links to AAQ pages or Mozillian communities in languages specified by Rachel in #17.

Please note that this is not the official page of SUMO at this moment, so if anything is broken or not behaving as expected, it's not critical.

> Are you asking Madalina as assignee to agree all of the 25 listed versions?
> Presumably your own L10n leads provided or approved any wordind specific to
> their own locales.

Yes, the wording was taken from previous l10n by our community. If (especially) Rachel and/or Madalina want to sign off on this, they have the links to take a look at and request tweaks.

> Has employing the Flood Control method been abandoned ?
> Do we have any locales that have both a Sumo aaq support forum and an
> external support forum? (Or where we are working on providing one)
> If so what policy is being followed ? For instance
> Link only to the external forum
> Link only to Sumo
> Link to both
> If we link to both do we emphasise one over the other ?
> Do we want to compete with existing fora and risk bad feeling has this been
> discussed ? Where ?
> If we only link to an external forum do we need a Sumo one for that Locale?

I think these questions are Rachel's domain and expertise. I'm +NIng her.

Comment 22

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

I have looked at each of these, apologies for the delay: 
(Just wondering, these are all relative links, so you don't have to go back an remove the dns name after we switch back?)

1. Change the Arabic link to communities not spaces - https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contact/communities/
2. Perfect
3. Perfect, this points to documentation
4. Perfect it points to firefox campus
5. Perfect this points to documentation
6. Perfect
7. Perfect spanish points to community forums
8. Perfect (May want to follow up later one more time with fi)
9. Perfect french is a third party
10. {?} Perfect - does Hungry point to the english article? 
11. Perfect - Points to documentation 
12. Perfect - Points to documentation
13. Perfect points to https://mozillazine.jp/
14. Perfect ko to third party
15. Perfects points to documentation
16. Perfect points to documentation
17. Perfect points to translated article 
18. Perfect same as above
19. Perfect points to documentation
20. [Perfect]Change link to the turkish community and it is a direct link to the Turkish AAQ https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-tr/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum
21. Perfect points to documentation
22 Perfect third party place
22. Perfect points to documentation
23. {?}(this is the wrong link which locale is it?)
24.Perfect it points to the third party community.
25. Perfect this points to documentation.

Comment 23

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

(In reply to vesper from comment #21)
> (In reply to John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me) from comment #20)
> >
> 
> > Has employing the Flood Control method been abandoned ?
> > Do we have any locales that have both a Sumo aaq support forum and an
> > external support forum? (Or where we are working on providing one)
> > If so what policy is being followed ? For instance
> > Link only to the external forum
> > Link only to Sumo
> > Link to both
> > If we link to both do we emphasise one over the other ?
> > Do we want to compete with existing fora and risk bad feeling has this been
> > discussed ? Where ?
> > If we only link to an external forum do we need a Sumo one for that Locale?
> 
> I think these questions are Rachel's domain and expertise. I'm +NIng her.

Comment 24

[guigs [:guigs] PST (please needinfo me!)]

John can you elaborate on this question: 
> > Has employing the Flood Control method been abandoned ?

Yes - there are 4 of them: French, Japanese, German, and Korean?

Experimental Policy part of my goal to better connect the SUMO Communities. Please review the Participation Guidelines published this weeK https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/participation/

I only link to those communities that have their own support outside the forums that we do not have. The article Answering support Forum questions also links to english speaking communities for support. It seems to be a historical practice. 

Some of these points are talked about in the community  meeting.

Comment 25

[vesper]

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #22)
> I have looked at each of these, apologies for the delay: 
> (Just wondering, these are all relative links, so you don't have to go back
> an remove the dns name after we switch back?)

Correct.
 
> 1. Change the Arabic link to communities not spaces -
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contact/communities/

Done.

> 10. {?} Perfect - does Hungry point to the english article? 

It links to https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-hu/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum?lang=hu

> 20. [Perfect]Change link to the turkish community and it is a direct link to
> the Turkish AAQ
> https://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/Support-Forums-
> tr/choose-node/true/interaction-style/forum

Done

> 23. {?}(this is the wrong link which locale is it?)

Ukrainian. Pointed it over to http://www.mozilla.org.ua/ for now. I think this has a redirect to the home page of Mozilla in Ukrainian, so this may need more investigating. Would pointing people to https://www.facebook.com/groups/mozilla.ukraine/ work better?

Comment 26

[John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me)]

Rachel I overlooked replying to your comment 20.
I am assuming we have dropped the suggestion of considering Flood control as a solution to this bug.
I was worried  the use of **Flood Controls** may hit contributors and Mods ordinary use of the Fora.
Discussion in this bug was as follows:


(In reply to Patrick McClard;pmcclard from comment #13)
> I don't think adding a link to the forum rules will curb this behavior. I
> found some info on 'Flood Controls' offered in Lithium. Rachel can you take
> a look?
> 
> https://community.lithium.com/t5/Community-FAQ-s/Flood-controls/ta-p/75530

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #14)
> SGTM here are some drafted solutions we can take a look into: 
> 
> A user can't make more than 1 post in 180000 milliseconds.  (3 minutes)
> A user can't make more than 20 posts in 1800000 milliseconds (30 mins)

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #15)
> After Michal adds his recommendations here, can you file a support ticket
> with Lithium?

(In reply to John Hesling [:John99] (NeedInfo me) from comment #18)
> (In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #15)
> > After Michal adds his recommendations here, can you file a support ticket
> > with Lithium?
> 
> Was a Lithium Ticket for this filed ?
> 
> Have we considered issues we had in Kisune where Admins had to  intervene
> and add people to trusted groups. 
> Is there any danger this could be a foot gun? 
> Could flood control restrictions hit contributors using their own canned
> responses, or Mods trying to deal with spam or abuse for instance.

(In reply to guigs [guigs] PST (please needinfo me!) from comment #24)
> John can you elaborate on this question: 
> > > Has employing the Flood Control method been abandoned ?
> ...

Comment 27

[Alice Wyman]

Marking INVALID. We aren't moving back to Lithium per https://blog.mozilla.org/sumo/2017/06/28/important-platform-update/