275402 - [l10n] Undo/Redo, Show/Hide Toolbar, Special Characters are not localizable in languages without Mac OS X localizations

Status: RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

(Camino Graveyard :: Translations, defect, P3)

Description

[Jozef Remen]

User-Agent:       [Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O) Gecko/20040906 Camino/0.8+]
Build Identifier: [Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O) Gecko/20040906 Camino/0.8+]

In menu Edit two items Undo and Redo are not localizable. Although those two
items are localized in any language (checked by Camino l10n team), they are
still in English, despite the International settings in System Preferences or by
disabling all languages other than actually used.
All version of Camino (0.8.2 as well as 0.8+ nightlies) have this bug.

Reproducible: Always

Comment 1

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

confirming.

Comment 2

[Marcello Testi]

It might help to point that this problem arises for languages that don't have OS
X localized, since the mentioned menu items are handled directly by the system.

One more thing that might help: can you point to examples of Cocoa apps that
work as expected (Undo/Redo translated) with languages not covered by OS X?

Comment 3

[Jozef Remen]

(In reply to comment #2)
> It might help to point that this problem arises for languages that don't have OS
> X localized, since the mentioned menu items are handled directly by the system.
> 
> One more thing that might help: can you point to examples of Cocoa apps that
> work as expected (Undo/Redo translated) with languages not covered by OS X?

Ie. Czech localizations of many apps. like iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and so on.
http://www.apple.cz/software/

Sending to you a test version of Slovak localization of iMovie (should be
official soon), so you can see that this works OK and has nothing to do with OS
X directly, as far as it's done right way

Comment 4

[Simon Fraser [no longer active]]

Anyone got the bottom of this?

Comment 5

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

(In reply to comment #4)
> Anyone got the bottom of this?

I think it's because we "link" with a system framework that forces back to
english (can't remember where I got this info from, but it's simething like
that), so when translated the menu uses the system's values instead of the one
in the "local" .nib file. see
http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/caminol10n/2004-December/000510.html

Comment 6

[Paul Borokhov (lensovet)]

(In reply to comment #5)
> (In reply to comment #4)
> > Anyone got the bottom of this?
> 
> I think it's because we "link" with a system framework that forces back to
> english (can't remember where I got this info from, but it's simething like
> that)

Ludovic, this info actually came from the hyperlink you provided in your
comment. As Jolita Seckute in the linked e-mail, Camino pulls the Undo/Redo
strings from
/System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Resources/. If the
localized language is not found there, the system takes english (interestingly,
it does NOT take the next preferred language) instead.

Comment 7

[Paul Borokhov (lensovet)]

Also, in an app like TextEdit, this works the same way it does in Camino - i.e.
doesn't work at all.

 (In reply to comment #2)
>> It might help to point that this problem arises for languages that 
> don't have OS
>> X localized, since the mentioned menu items are handled directly by 
> the system.
>> 
>> One more thing that might help: can you point to examples of Cocoa 
> apps that
>> work as expected (Undo/Redo translated) with languages not covered 
> by OS X?
> 
> Ie. Czech localizations of many apps. like iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and so on.
> http://www.apple.cz/software/

I assume that's because they use some kind of custom Undo/redo implementations,
but that's just a guess.

Comment 8

[Paul Borokhov (lensovet)]

(In reply to comment #6)
> (In reply to comment #5)
If the
> localized language is not found there, the system takes english (interestingly,
> it does NOT take the next preferred language) instead.

Oops, bad job testing this. Actually, the system DOES take the next preferred
language. So for example, if my preferred language list is Russian, French,
English, and I don't have the system-wide Russian resources installed, and I
open TextEdit with a Russian localization, the Undo and Redo items are displayed
in French. Goody. While slightly unrelated, the same goes for the toolbar
customization sheet, the toolbar contextual menu (right-click on toolbar), and
the View->Show/Hide Toolbar menu item. Toolbar behavior tested on Sherlock.
Sorry for comment spam, lol.

Comment 9

[Mike Pinkerton (not reading bugmail)]

so it sounds like we do exactly what we're supposed to. why shouldn't i close
this bug right now?

Comment 10

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

(In reply to comment #9)
> so it sounds like we do exactly what we're supposed to. why shouldn't i close
> this bug right now?

Because we have a localized .nib file inside Camino, meaning that we could
display the apple unsuported languages  inside Camino for that menu. So Apple's
unsuported languages look crapy in Camino because *One* menu stays in English.

Comment 11

[Mike Pinkerton (not reading bugmail)]

but it's the OS that sets the text for those items, right? We have no control
over them. 

Comment 12

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

I was thinking something like making sure we use the .nib in camino, not the
system one. Hence we would be ok. I have no idea how much work it represents if
it's doable. If you think we should not the close.

Comment 13

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

What's the verdict on this?

Comment 14

[Simon Fraser [no longer active]]

Does making a bunch of empty ***.proj folders in the app fix this?

Comment 15

[Paul Borokhov (lensovet)]

no it doesn't. look at comment 6 - if the system does not have the given language localization installed, then we have the next preferred string pulled.
so if we have a a list like this: Afrikaans, Dutch, English. Let's say we do NOT have an Arikaans version of Mac OS installed, but we do have a Dutch localization (and obviously an English one installed).
If we have an Afrikaans Camino running, empty lproj folders or not, then it will be completely in Afrikaans, except for the Undo/Redo, which will be in Dutch.
That is obviously not what we want, and some apps manage to use some sort of self-crafted Undo/Redo commands which do not pull strings from the system for the menu titles.
the verdict on this is unknown because Ludo was going to look into this but never came back with a solution.

Comment 16

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

-> 1.1

Comment 17

[Smokey Ardisson (offline for a while; not following bugs - do not email)]

Ludo, any updates on this?

Comment 18

[Smokey Ardisson (offline for a while; not following bugs - do not email)]

Interestingly, in my QA of 1.0.5, I noticed that all of the Edit menu items in the Slovak l10n *were* localized, but "Hide Toolbar" and "Show Toolbar" *were not* (despite "Hide Toolbar" being localized in the nib).

FWIW.

Comment 19

[Mark Mentovai]

Still a problem?

Comment 21

[Smokey Ardisson (offline for a while; not following bugs - do not email)]

What happens if you try to add the relevant strings from the system frameworks to your language's Camino Localizable.strings file?  If that doesn't work, perhaps trying including a strings *file* with the same name (e.g. Undo.strings) in your lproj folder?

The strings are duplicated across the various system frameworks, sometimes with slightly different syntaxes, so it might be hard to pin down which one exactly to use, but it's worth a shot if someone has a little bit of time.  (Incidentally, this might be what the Czech/Slovak apps described by Jozef in comment 3 were doing.)

Comment 22

[Jan]

Hm, the Undo/Redo is no longer a problem, at least not on my system. The menu items here I well translated in all official Camino languages. The "Hide/Show Toolbar" are the ones that need to be fixed. If someone could find the appropriate string name or add a string in the localization files that would be very helpful.

Comment 23

[Takanori MATSUURA]

This bug lies at rest in the graveyard.