Closed Bug 286080 Opened 19 years ago Closed 12 years ago

[ms-MY] [Fx] New localization: Malay, Malaysia

Categories

(Mozilla Localizations :: Registration & Management, defect)

Product:
Mozilla Localizations
Component:
Registration & Management
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED FIXED

People

(Reporter: ushkah, Unassigned)

References

Details

Attachments

(1 file, 4 obsolete files)

Checked with compare-locales
402.14 KB, application/zip
Pike
: review+
Details 
User-Agent:       Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Build Identifier: 

Firefox

MS + MY

Syahrir Mat Ali
ushkah@yahoo.com

Reproducible: Always
There is also one registration bug for Malayalam - bug 290869. Is Malayalam
(ml-IN) the same language ? If not and you are still interested in Firefox
localization, please provide the proper language code.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
OS: Windows XP → All
Hardware: PC → All
Syahrir Mat Ali wrote in email:

it's ms (for malay language) and MY (for Malaysia)
Malay is NOT the same as malayalam.
Summary: Firefox Malay localization → Registration of Malay (ms-MY) Firefox localization
Could we get a status update on this locale? We'll be branching for 1.1 late
next week and would like to land new locales until then.

We'd like you to attach your sources to this bug, or the cvs account bug that
has to be filed yet, so that we can review it.
*** Bug 313545 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to comment #4)
> *** Bug 313545 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
> 

I've contacted the previous owner (ushkah@yahoo.com) but didn't get any reply. Did he submit any localized sources & what is the current status of Malay localization? Can I attach the localized packages of Firefox 1.0.4 & Thunderbird 1.0.2 that we already have now through this bug? We hope to upgrade to the latest version of both Firefox & Thunderbird after we submit those packages. Please advise us on this matter. TQ.
*** Bug 354108 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Ismas, please upload your translation work. Whatever you have is fine.

I understand there is a size limit, so you may need to make separate chunks.

Thanks, James.
Summary: Registration of Malay (ms-MY) Firefox localization → [ms-MY] Malay: Firefox
Attached file Firefox 2.0.0.6 ms-MY (obsolete) — 
This localisation tested on Windows XP OS.
Mahrazi, I'm the first Mozilla Translator, but i quit translating mozilla after i've decided to concentrate on GNOME.

Now i've decided to translate firefox just like before, since you have finish the translation, so i think we move to the next step.

get listed, create localized built for linux, mac and Windows, and makan-makan.

please check your email

p/s: my email is sebolku@yahoo.com , sebol@ikhlas.com no longer valid.

Nice to see a collaboration forming here.

We'd need a source localization instead of a language pack for review. The language packs are generated lossy, so there's a bit of additional work needed to revert back.
Some of that work can be done with a tool that Cedric wrote, http://perso.orange.fr/cedric.corazza.net/html/langpack2cvstree.html.

Another topic to discuss is the language code, Mozilla prefers short locale names, i.e. ms vs ms-MY, unless there is a good reason to be specific, in particular, if a notably different version of Malay would be spoken in another region.
There are several update.

I and Mahrazi has setup a blog for the team, http://firefox-ms.blogspot.com
And planning to make it official Malay(ms) Team for Mozilla.

For cvs, i propose mahrazi to have the account.

for ms-MY vs ms, we will discuss about it at.




Below are the output from the script after selecting toolkit and branch. Zip file are based on folder name.

http://mahrazi.googlepages.com/locale.zip
http://mahrazi.googlepages.com/ms-MY.zip
http://mahrazi.googlepages.com/result.txt
Attached file CVS tree for ms-MY (obsolete) — 
Big thanks to pike & cedric
Attachment #279481 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Comment on attachment 288209 [details]
CVS tree for ms-MY

Putting this on my review list.
Attachment #288209 - Flags: review?(l10n)
Comment on attachment 288209 [details]
CVS tree for ms-MY

Hi all, this attachement is looking good.

Did you settle on ms vs ms-MY yet?

Review nits: The xml files in browser/searchplugins are not needed, just list.txt for now. In browser/profile/bookmarks.html, the link titles should be translated, and the 'en-US' in the links should be replaced with the locale code, i.e., either ms or ms-MY. That'd be twice for each URL.
The browser/defines.inc and toolkit/defines.inc files need to be translated still to make the description of language packs work right.

I found a bunch of conflicting accesskeys, so that could use a second pass.

From my point of view, this is ready for the next step, which would be getting CVS write access for Mahrazi.
Attachment #288209 - Flags: review?(l10n) → review+
Mahrazi: ping? Are you able to respond to Axel's comments in comment #15?

Gerv
Axel, 

It's ok with me to use ms. Please proceed with your preference. 

Thank You,
Axel, what else does the Malay team need to do?
Whiteboard: needs-pike
Hi Mahrazi, Hasbullah and the rest of the Malay Localization team: 

Thank you so much for all the work you have done toward localizing Firefox.  We are at the unique point of determining what is the best next step for the work you have done on your localization.  

Given the development and release schedule of Firefox 3.1, it is probably best for you to begin working toward localizing that release.  If that sounds good, we can help you get read for 3.1.  One place to start would be with the following documentation on working with Mercurial and getting a local environment set up on your machine.

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/L10n_on_Mercurial

or learn the basics about Mercurial here:

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mercurial

Thanks so much for your hard work.  As always, ping us with any questions, we
are ready to help.

Kind regards,
Sethb
Hey Pike or Seth.

> It's ok with me to use ms. Please proceed with your preference.

In the unlikely event that someone submits a Malay localization from Brunei (ms-BN) where the official language is also Malay what happens?

cf. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei>

(/me wonders what happened to the MIMOS work on the Malay language pack)
(In reply to comment #20)
> In the unlikely event that someone submits a Malay localization from Brunei
> (ms-BN) where the official language is also Malay what happens?
> 
> cf. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei>

If this were to happen, and it has happened in the past, we do one of a few things.  Here are the two options I have seen:

1)  We ask the teams to look at each others' work, consider consolidating, and working together on Mozilla localization.  There is so much to localize in our ecosystem that the more people helping, the better.

2)  We examine the differences between the localizations and if the differences suggest that two locales should exist, we will consider that.  Spanish is one example of this.  We have es-ES and es-AR.  

Not sure if I missed something.  Axel?
Malay l10n team,

Please accept our apology for not contacting you sooner.  

Has there been any l10n activity in preparation for the release of Firefox 3.1 on your side?  If there has been work that we have not seen, we would very much like to see what has been accomplished.  If there has not been any activity, please also share that information so we can then work on a new plan to generate new activity towards a Malay Firefox 3.1.

Thank you.
Whiteboard: needs-pike
> Created an attachment (id=376725) [details]
> CVS tree for ms firefox 3.5b4 (branch-1.9.1)

Ma'af, tetapi sekarang kami guna Mercurial untuk Firefox 3.5. Are you sure you pulled from our Mercurial repository? (e.g. hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-1.9.1/) as detailed on https://developer.mozilla.org/En/L10n_on_Mercurial
>> Created an attachment (id=376725)
> Are you sure you pulled from our Mercurial repository?

I've unpacked the tbz file and it's definitely Firefox 3.0 (gecko 1.9.0) from the CVS repository. If you have any questions please contact the localization team. irc://moznet/l10n is where the Firefox localization team can be contacted if you need some immediate advice.
Please note that I am speaking with the Ubuntu-my team to see if they can upstream the localization that they have done for 3.5.  This would help us get to 3.5 for Malay a lot faster than the current localization that is only part-way done for 1.9.0.
I'm interested to help complete this localization. I believe I already have the necessary software environment, and have pulled the 1.9.1 source code through Mercurial. Somebody please point me from here, e.g. where to get the latest copy of the localization file, etc.
Selamat pagi!

First check with Gen Kanai gen@mozilla.com as he says he is looking into getting the translation done by the Ubuntu-my team for the Ubuntu version of Firefox 3.5.

I think there is a good blog article on the new localization tools at:
<http://blog.mozilla.com/bhearsum/archives/78>
Also at
<https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Creating_a_new_localization_%28Mercurial%29>

There is an older article on developer.mozilla.org. But you should ignore all references to CVS as we now have a new l10n infrastructure for Firefox 3.5.
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Create_a_new_localization>
Syahir Hakim has filed bug 500343 to localize AMO also.  Is there a formal owner for the ms locale yet?  I didn't see one on the L10n teams page but need an a+ from them in that bug.
> Is there a formal owner for the ms locale yet?
None yet.
(In reply to comment #29)
> Is there a formal owner for the ms locale yet? 

We used to have an active owner but the owner has not been active in many
months so waiting for an a+ from the owner would not be helpful here.

Axel/SethB, what do we do when a locale owner stops contributing?  How do we
delegate a new owner?

I have been in contact with Syahir Hakim and I'd like to see Syahir be given
access to start AMO l10n asap.
(In reply to comment #31)
> Axel/SethB, what do we do when a locale owner stops contributing?  How do we
> delegate a new owner?

I don't know if we have specific policy on delegating a new owner.  I know we should try to introduce all interested parties to see if that helps re initiate activity.  I think we need to do a mapping of all the people in the ms-MY community and then try to connect all the dots. Gen, can you start that?
Apropos of nothing I note that MSIE8 has two Malay translations (Malaysia and Brunei Darussalam)
(In reply to comment #32)
> I think we need to do a mapping of all the people in the ms-MY
> community and then try to connect all the dots. Gen, can you start that?

Currently, I am aware of these contributors (some active, some not)

Izwan Zakaria - claims to be l10n lead for ms-MY (not clear who he is)

Hasbullah Pit - original pre-Firefox Mozilla l10n contributor

Syahrir Mat Ali (kingsnake) - original bug 286080 filer

Mahrazi Mohd Kamal - current active contributor (has provided Gecko 1.9.0 localization but not 1.9.1)

Philip Chee - developer of Flashblock; widely active Mozilla community member, although moreso in XUL/addons than l10n

Syahir Hakim - new contributor as of June 2009, AMO l10n contributor, waiting for status on 3.5.x 

Separate from these contributors, Mozilla is speaking to Mohd Fenris of the Ubuntu-my community as well as Alexander Sack of Canonical to see if we can receive the Ubuntu-my l10n files from Firefox-my so that the work does not have to be duplicated.  We are waiting for Canonical to provide a transformer which will take files from Launchpad (Canonical's platform) and transform them to  Mozilla's Mercurial system.  This will be used not only for ms-MY but for other localizations which Ubuntu has and Mozilla does not.
> Philip Chee - developer of Flashblock; widely active Mozilla community member,
> although moreso in XUL/addons than l10n
I'm not active in L10n at all. Mostly these days I'm a SeaMonkey developer. Although as a Malaysian obviously I have an interest in seeing a Malay translation available.
Hi Gen and Malay community:

I am not hopeful that we will be able to upstream anything from Canoncial.  Can we all agree that it might be time to drop that idea?  I think that is best to do at this point.

In the meantime, there doesn't seem to be much progress on this bug.  We will resolve this incomplete for now just so we can manage our registration queue.  That doesn't mean that the case is closed.  If you are interested in restarting the work and need some documentation, please review this document:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Create_a_new_localization

Once you have made some progress, you may reopen later if you are able to move
forward.  When you reopen, please attach something like a language pack to give us code to review.  And, ask questions along the way.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 14 years ago
Resolution: --- → INCOMPLETE
Attached file Needs code review (obsolete) — 
Please review the code for landing in Aurora.
Attachment #589789 - Flags: review?(l10n)
Reopening, otherwise I don't see these.
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: INCOMPLETE → ---
Malay is a complex language situation, which has actually resulted in its language code [ms] being split twice: First into a macrolanguage identifier that included "Malay" [mly] and then again into, among others, "Malay" [zml] and "Standard Malay" [zsm].

Since the 'ms' macrolanguage code includes a language that we already have a locale for (namely, Indonesian [id]), I'd recommend against using it. Likewise, 'mly' should not be used because it has been discontinued in favor of its descendants.

Now, I assume that the goal here is to localize into Standard Malay, since that has a wider audience, so I would recommend using the 'zsm' code. Also, given that it is a formal system, I would suspect that there wouldn't be significant difference among the various regions, so I would recommend against using any region specification.

It may be worth noting that there may be a lot of overlap between this locale and Indonesian, as they are very similar languages. (Unfortunately, there is a lot of politics in language, and the fuzziness of what constitutes a "language" versus a "dialect" does not help the matter.) I would recommend coordinating with the Indonesian team, as well, in order to broaden the pool of possible volunteers.
Status: REOPENED → NEW
Summary: [ms-MY] Malay: Firefox → [zsm] [Fx] New localization: Standard Malay
Whiteboard: [ms]
Attachment #589789 - Flags: review?(l10n) → review-
Checked the locale with compare-locale. No errors reported. Some 'Remove this files' are not fixed. 
/tmp/MS
  browser
    README.txt
        // remove this file
    chrome
      branding
        brand.dtd
            // remove this file
        brand.properties
            // remove this file
      browser
        bookmarks
          addBookmark.dtd
              // remove this file
          bookmarks.dtd
              // remove this file
          bookmarks.properties
              // remove this file
          bookmarksProperties.dtd
              // remove this file
        browser.dtd
            -inspect3DButton.accesskey
            -inspect3DButton.label
            +inspect3DViewButton.accesskey
            +inspect3DViewButton.label
        browser.properties~
            // remove this file
        cookieviewer
          CookieExceptions.dtd
              // remove this file
          CookieViewer.dtd
              // remove this file
          CookieViewer.properties
              // remove this file
        credits.dtd
            // remove this file
        devtools
          gclicommands.properties
              +consolecloseDesc
          scratchpad.dtd
              +findAgainCmd.accesskey
              +findAgainCmd.key
              +findAgainCmd.label
              +findCmd.accesskey
              +findCmd.key
              +findCmd.label
              +findPreviousCmd.key
              +gotoLineCmd.accesskey
              +gotoLineCmd.key
              +gotoLineCmd.label
          sourceeditor.properties
              // add and localize this file
          styleinspector.properties
              -style.highlighter.accesskey1
              +style.highlighter.accesskey2
              -style.highlighter.button.label1
              +style.highlighter.button.label2
          webconsole.properties
              +Autocomplete.blank
              +scratchpad.linkText
        feeds/addFeedReader.dtd
            // remove this file
        history/history.dtd
            // remove this file
        metaData.dtd
            // remove this file
        metaData.properties
            // remove this file
        migration
          migration.dtd
              +importFromFirefox.accesskey
              +importFromFirefox.label
          migration.properties
              +16_firefox
              +2_firefox
              +32_firefox
              +4_firefox
              +sourceNameFirefox
        page-drawer.dtd
            // remove this file
        pageReport.dtd
            // remove this file
        pageReportFirstTime.dtd
            // remove this file
        preferences
          changeaction.dtd
              // remove this file
          downloadactions.dtd
              // remove this file
          fallbackEULA.dtd
              // remove this file
          feeds.dtd
              // remove this file
          feeds.properties
              // remove this file
          fonts.dtd~
              // remove this file
          phishEULA.dtd
              // remove this file
          sanitize.dtd
              // remove this file
          securityWarnings.dtd
              // remove this file
        sessionstore.properties
            // remove this file
        shellservice.properties~
            // remove this file
        sidebar/sidebar.properties
            // remove this file
      help
        accessibility.xhtml
            // remove this file
        cookies.xhtml
            // remove this file
        customization.xhtml
            // remove this file
        download_manager.xhtml
            // remove this file
        firebird-toc.rdf
            // remove this file
        firebirdhelp.rdf
            // remove this file
        firefox_welcome.xhtml
            // remove this file
        forieusers.xhtml
            // remove this file
        glossary.xhtml
            // remove this file
        menu_reference.xhtml
            // remove this file
        mouse_shortcuts.xhtml
            // remove this file
        platformStrings.dtd
            // remove this file
        popup.xhtml
            // remove this file
        prefs.xhtml
            // remove this file
        search-db.rdf
            // remove this file
        shortcuts.xhtml
            // remove this file
        tabbed_browsing.xhtml
            // remove this file
        using_firebird.xhtml
            // remove this file
    extra-jar.mn
        // remove this file
    installer/installer.inc
        // remove this file
    microsummary-generators/list.txt
        // remove this file
    os2/README.txt
        // remove this file
    profile
      bookmarks.html
          // remove this file
      localstore.rdf
          // remove this file
      mac/mimeTypes.rdf
          // remove this file
      search.rdf
          // remove this file
      unix/mimeTypes.rdf
          // remove this file
      win/mimeTypes.rdf
          // remove this file
  dom/chrome
    accessibility/mac/accessible.properties
        +htmlContent
    charsetTitles.properties
        -geostd8.title
    dom/dom.properties
        +MediaLoadDecodeError
        +MediaLoadExhaustedCandidates
        +MediaLoadHttpError
        +MediaLoadInvalidURI
        +MediaLoadSourceMissingSrc
        +MediaLoadUnsupportedMimeType
        +MediaLoadUnsupportedType
    layout
      HtmlForm.properties
          +CannotEncodeAllUnicode
      css.properties~
          // remove this file
    printdialog.properties
        // remove this file
    security/caps.properties
        -capdesc.UniversalBrowserRead
        -capdesc.UniversalBrowserWrite
        -capdesc.UniversalFileRead
        -capdesc.UniversalPreferencesRead
        -capdesc.UniversalPreferencesWrite
    webservices/security.properties
        // remove this file
  extensions/reporter/chrome
    about.dtd
        // remove this file
    reportResults.dtd
        // remove this file
    reportWizard.dtd
        // remove this file
    reportWizard.properties
        // remove this file
    reporter.dtd
        // remove this file
    reporterOverlay.dtd
        // remove this file
    reporterOverlay.properties
        // remove this file
  other-licenses/branding/firefox
    brand.dtd
        // remove this file
    brand.properties
        // remove this file
  security/manager/chrome/pippki
    PageInfoOverlay.dtd
        // remove this file
    PrefOverlay.dtd
        // remove this file
    newserver.dtd
        // remove this file
    newserver.properties
        // remove this file
    pref-masterpass.dtd
        // remove this file
    pref-security.dtd
        // remove this file
    pref-ssl.dtd
        // remove this file
    pref-validation.dtd
        // remove this file
  services/sync/sync.properties
      -tabs.fromOtherComputers.label
  toolkit
    chrome
      cookie/cookieAcceptDialog.dtd
          -props.policy.label
      global
        aboutSupport.dtd
            +aboutSupport.modifiedKeyPrefsTitle
            -aboutSupport.modifiedPrefsTitle
        accept2locale.properties
            // remove this file
        history/history.properties
            // remove this file
        languageNames.properties~
            // remove this file
        license.dtd
            // remove this file
        nsHelperAppDlg.dtd
            // remove this file
        nsHelperAppDlg.properties
            // remove this file
        nsProgressDialog.dtd
            // remove this file
        nsProgressDialog.properties
            // remove this file
        tabbrowser.dtd
            // remove this file
        tabbrowser.properties
            // remove this file
        textcontext.dtd
            +spellUndoAddToDictionary.accesskey
            +spellUndoAddToDictionary.label
        xpinstall
          xpinstall.properties
              +CopyFile
          xpinstall.properties~
              // remove this file
      global-region
        builtinURLs.rdf
            // remove this file
        region.dtd
            // remove this file
      mozapps
        downloads/downloadProperties.dtd
            // remove this file
        update
          errors.dtd
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          incompatible.dtd
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        xpinstall
          xpinstallConfirm.dtd
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          xpinstallConfirm.properties
              // remove this file
    installer
      unix/install.it
          // remove this file
      windows
        charset.mk
            // remove this file
        install.it
            // remove this file
/tmp/MS:
missing: 37
keys: 1025
unchanged: 1645
changed: 4270
missingInFiles: 4
obsolete: 13
71% of entries changed
Attachment #288209 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #376725 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #589789 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #591055 - Flags: review?(l10n)
> Unfortunately, there is a lot of politics in language
"Politics" with a capital "P" as well. Switching back to ms-MY since no ordinary Malaysians outside the ISO/SIRIM Standards Committees knows what zml/zsm mean, but we all know what ms-MY means.

As discussed in mozilla.community.malaysia:

"Yes, we are using the standard malay as what you said earlier and I definitely with that. But I don't see the confusion caused by using a identifier like ms unless we are creating an identity of our own. Besides that Indonesia Malay has their own identifier and Bahasa Indonesia is slightly different from ours in terms of phonetics and articulation manner. Sometimes even the semantics is different which might cause confusion among our people. I personally do not recommend a coordination with the Indonesian team but instead asking them for some advice. Moreover our translation process in Narro has reached 89% which I think it will cause a great havoc if we have to change most of the things."

"If we look at English, we have en-GB, en-US, en-ZA. We can easily identify
the English used is based on which region.
---------------
"So for our Malaysia Malay language, the best is to go with ms-MY.  It just
a way of telling user that there is a localized version in Bahasa
Malaysia.  To go with "zml" or "zsm" will only creating confusion to user.

If we look at Wikipedia explanation for Malay Language, it says the
language is spoken in few country with different dialect,  a bit similar to
English.  So, can we stick to ms-MY?"
---------------
Summary: [zsm] [Fx] New localization: Standard Malay → [Fx][ms-MY] New localization: Malay
Hi,

I'm Muhammad Syafiq Mazli (https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Syafiqmazli) and project manager for mozilla l10n malay. This project is started last July and continue previous project which not finish. This project is following standard Malay and using reference dictionary from Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (Malay for The Institute of Language and Literature) (abbreviated DBP) is the government body responsible for coordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia and Brunei. I hope the code won't be issue and stick for ms-MY. We are pursuing for finishing another percentage for accomplish Firefox in Bahasa Malaysia.
Thanks to Arky for mentoring our project and give support to our team.

Thank you,
(In reply to Philip Chee from comment #41)
> To go with "zml" or "zsm" will only creating confusion to user.

Sorry to chime in at all but that's a non-argument. We never display the locale code to users at all, we only use a language description everywhere, so it doesn't matter if the user understands the code or not.
Comment on attachment 591055 [details]
Checked with compare-locales

Hey Pike, Can you do code review for this bug.
Pike, Please let me know if you need any further feedback on this.
Comment on attachment 591055 [details]
Checked with compare-locales

r=me. There's a bunch of technical stuff that's mentioned on https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Review_notes that we'll need to follow up on. After talking to Arky, I'll prepare those when landing this update, and Arky and the Malay team will take care of getting those changes back into narro.

I'll start filing a few bugs to get the infrastructure started, and some of the discussions around turning the translation into a localization.

Great to have Malay get back to speed.
Attachment #591055 - Flags: review?(l10n) → review+
congrats to the team. I've landed the attachment minus a host of obsolete files. The landing started with removing obsolete files, http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/ms/rev/f33017f73177, then I landed the attachment data, http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/ms/rev/5153c56b5064, and then a fixup patch with my review notes, http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/ms/rev/6a6f5a42001c.

There's a good amount of work to be done to integrate the localization work into a shipping product on our website, that is tracked in bug 737970 and the bugs that block that. I didn't file all the bugs just yet, but we're getting our feet wet there.

Marking this bug FIXED.
Blocks: fx-l10n-ms
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 14 years ago → 12 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Retroactively expressing my support for 'ms-MY', per CLDR replacement rules:

http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/supplementalMetadata.xml
Summary: [Fx][ms-MY] New localization: Malay → [ms-MY] [Fx] New localization: Malay, Malaysia
Whiteboard: [ms]
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