326869 - Thunderbird: Shift+Delete keystroke poorly documented

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Thunderbird :: Help Documentation, enhancement)

Description

[silvertngddevil]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Firefox/1.5.0.1
Build Identifier: Thunderbird version 1.5 (20051201)

The Shift+Delete keystroke to delete a message without copying it to the trash folder is extremely useful, but not documented on Thunderbird's keystroke page (see URL above).  For those of us who use the trash folder to hold non-junk deleted messages for a period of time before they go away, shift-delete allows us to avoid filling up the trash folder with things we know we won't ever want back.    As a minimum, this should be documented on the page listed above.

More useful would be an item available on the dropdown menu that pops up when right clicking a selected message(s) in the message list AND when right clicking the message window itself.  It should be just below the Delete Message item and should say something like Delete Message, Do Not Copy to Trash.

For those who are concerned about the finality of this menu choice, there could be a popup box saying "The message(s) will not be copied to the trash folder and may not be recoverable.  Are you sure you want to delete it/them?

Reproducible: Always

Comment 1

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to comment #0)
> The Shift+Delete keystroke to delete a message without copying it to the trash
> folder is extremely useful, but not documented on Thunderbird's keystroke page
> (see URL above). For those of us who use the trash folder to hold non-junk
> deleted messages for a period of time before they go away, shift-delete allows
> us to avoid filling up the trash folder with things we know we won't ever want
> back. As a minimum, this should be documented on the page listed above.

Any reason why shift+del is not included in the official shortcut list?
Is it perhaps because related bug 308690 (missing confirmation message for shift+del permanent message deletion) and bug 132121 (can't undo shift+delete) have not been adressed yet and therefore, publishing shift+del is not safe enough for the average user? But then what if the user accidentily hits shift+del (perhaps instead of, or in accidental combination with shift+end END, a very likely scenario as pointed out by bug 225713?). If you ask me, I agree with the reporter of this bug: "As a minimum, this [like any existing shortcut] should be documented on the [official keyboard shortcut] page listed above."!

> More useful would be an item available on the dropdown menu that pops up when
> right clicking a selected message(s) in the message list AND when right
> clicking the message window itself.  It should be just below the Delete Message
> item and should say something like Delete Message, Do Not Copy to Trash.

I can understand that programmers don't want to clutter menus with commands as similar as "delete [to trash]" and "delete bypassing trash". A more intelligent and less intrusive way to realize this would be to implement the rfe suggested by Bug 381041 (Shift-Del Behavior Should Work On Toolbar Button and Menus). In other words, holding down shift while clicking on delete buttons or menus will invoke "bypass trash"-deletion. 

silvertngddevil (reporter), if you agree that bug 381041 is better than extra menus, you should edit the description of this bug and delete the dropdown menu bit or otherwise make it a new bug.

> For those who are concerned about the finality of this menu choice, there could
> be a popup box saying "The message(s) will not be copied to the trash folder
> and may not be recoverable.  Are you sure you want to delete it/them?
> Reproducible: Always
> 

That's related bug 308690 (Missing confirmation message when force-deleting messages), yet to be confirmed...

Requesting confirmation of this bug, still holds for TB 2's shortcut list & behaviour.

Comment 2

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

> Any reason why shift+del is not included in the official shortcut list?

Mostly because
 a) it's standard behaviour just about in all applications
 b) we have multiple delete models (especially on imap), which makes a technically correct and concise description harder.

You're welcome to provide a patch. 

Comment 3

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Attachment: Documentation for Shift+DEL (Draft for Thunderbird Help: Keyboard Shortcuts)

Assuming that undocumented keyboard shortcuts are undesirable for a high quality open source software application like TB, perhaps it might be an idea to include shift+del keyboard shortcut into the help file / keyboard shortcut documentation of TB3, after all?

To get this started, I included a working draft with some html code to be inserted into the respective documentation page (see this bug's URL).
Unfortunately, I don't know about the IMAP delete models, does shift+del do something different there? Be that as it may, when it comes to permanent deletion of messages (as it appears to the average pop3 account user), I think any documentation will be better than none. Maybe someone can add the missing bits for IMAP and/or other delete models?

Comment 4

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Attachment: Mockup Documentation for Shift+DEL (Draft for Thunderbird Help: Keyboard Shortcuts)

Attachment: Improved Mockup entry/patch for Thunderbird Help: Keyboard Shortcuts (http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/keyboard)
The code of the relevant Shortcut description can be copied as-is into the Thunderbird help file html code.

This bug should be confirmed. Shift+DEL quick deletion is a feature, and therefore, I can't see any reason for the continued exclusion of this particular shortcut from the list. The current dataloss potential of Shift+DEL due to lack of informative warnings and undo options is IMO a strong reason *in favour* of making the shortcut public with the intention of both raising awareness against accidental use and promoting this useful feature.

I am aware this is not a perfect and complete solution (there might be newer helpfiles, localized helpfiles, imap deletion models I have no idea of), but more than 3 years after this bug was posted, I am still inclined to think we'll have to start somewhere and some information will be better than none, as per comment #0:
> As a minimum, this should be documented on the page listed above.

Comment 5

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

Thomas you'll need to find someone to review the doc and provide a patch version of it.

Comment 6

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Thanks for confirming the bug and for immediate attention.

Unfortunately, I have no idea whom to ask for review and how to do a patch version of this. We are talking about adding a single table row into a public Mozilla HTML document whose URL is known (http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/keyboard). My understanding of patching this is to copy the following 5 lines of code into line 158 of that document - done. I trust you'll know someone who has the powers and administrative abilities to do this.

<pre>[code]

<tr>
  <td>Delete bypassing trash (POP3 Accounts)</td>
  <td class="shortcut_moz"><kbd>Shift</kbd>+<kbd>Del</kbd></td>
  <td class="shortcut"><kbd>Shift</kbd>+<kbd>Del</kbd></td>
</tr>

[/code]
</pre>

Comment 7

[Mark Banner (:standard8)]

I'm not sure who to contact either, but cc'ing two people who will probably be able to work it out between them.

Comment 8

[Steffen Wilberg]

(In reply to comment #6)
>   <td>Delete bypassing trash (POP3 Accounts)</td>
This works for IMAP accounts and local folders as well...

Comment 9

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Attachment: Mockup/Patch Documentation for Shift+DEL (Draft for Thunderbird Help: Keyboard Shortcuts)

Based on comment #8, shift+del seems to work the same way on all types of accounts (pop3, imap, local) -> removed "(pop3 accounts)" from the description

Comment 10

[jenzed]

http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/keyboard has been updated.

Comment 11

[Pulsebot]

Pushed by [e-mail]:
https://hg.mozilla.org/projects/graphics/rev/c5bb426cc2fc
Add the missed file for the merge commit 326869:f7611d6c4616