443053 - Change in localeDetails.class.php for current Valencian tagging.

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(mozilla.org Graveyard :: Webdev, task)

Description

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

After bug 433465, I would like to propose a change in file: http://svn.mozilla.org/libs/product-details/localeDetails.class.php
Presently, with current tagging, Mozilla would appear to support linguistic secessionism, putting apart Catalan and Valencian names in the list and also linking explicit secessionist stuff as Valencian.

Briefly, some points to take into account:
* Apart from an alternate name for Catalan, Valencian can refer to some variants of Catalan language, others are Central, Balearic, Alguerese, etc. ca-valencia locale should be used for official and widely-used Valencian variety addons.
For instance, nowadays we only have a general Catalan dictionary, but we will have regional specific ones in the near future. In that case, we could use either ca (with additional tagging) or ca-valencia for this.
* Present dictionary and langpack tagged as Valencian should be named differently to avoid any misunderstanding regarding Mozilla position in this aspect. One suitable name could be "Unofficial (RACV) Valencian".
On the other hand, since they are using their own locale (roa-ES-valencia), either that should be used or a system should be designed to deal with this and other possible similar cases in the future.

Comment 1

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

It's not clear to me what you're asking here.  We're currently referring to Valencian as:

locale: ca-valencia 
English: Valencian
native: valencià

across all Mozilla sites (using this file).  Please be very specific about what you are proposing.

Comment 2

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Two points:

* Present content (secessionist addons, dictionary and langpack - I do not want to open more bugs for checking their description) should not be linked as they are presently linked; since many users can get confused and usually get deeply offended. That's why I'm asking for extra tagging for roa-ES-valencia stuff, since that is NOT what most Valencian users expect as Valencian, and so noone will interpret Mozilla is supporting non-academical secessionist positions.
Particular proposal: That stuff should neither be named plainly as Valencian nor using ca-valencia locale.

However, I do not know which is the best general solution. For instance, in case there is ever, let's say, a hypothetical Castilian or Andalusian secessionist dictionary, which may also confuse and enrage users as present Valencian is doing now.

* In case of officially based dictionaries and other addons: for instance, after summer we are going to have different dictionaries apart from the general one. An easy solution, as all other languages, could be:

ca: Catalan - català
ca-valencia: Catalan (Valencian) - Català (valencià)

However, there could also be other dictionary variants (ex. Central and Balearic), despite they are not listed in IANA subtag registry and cannot be differentiated by using country locales.

Comment 3

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

By the way, there is already a Valencian specific Catalan dictionary in Addons under ca-valencia:
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/9192
I have included AVL (the official academy) as tagging as well.

It's already a few weeks awaiting for approval. Equivalent general version was easily approved in the meantime (we use the same version numbering). 
Even before finishing this issue, I think that approving this dictionary would help minimizing user confusion. At least, presently under Valencian name in dictionary list, they would also find a normative dictionary, not only a secessionist one not commonly used by institutions, schools or administrations.

Comment 4

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

We have already Valencian specific language packs based on AVL official normatives:

Firefox Language Pack:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/9702
Thunderbird Language Pack:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/9730 

In conclusion:
After their approval, I would simply ask the following naming change in http://svn.mozilla.org/libs/product-details/localeDetails.class.php

ca: Catalan - català
ca-valencia: Catalan (Valencian) - Català (valencià)

following IANA recommendations.

Happy New Year!

Comment 5

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Any advance on this?
Would you need anything I could provide?
Thanks!

Comment 6

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

Those add-ons haven't been nominated to be public yet.  If "after their approval" means them getting out of the sandbox they need to be nominated first.

I CC'd axel for approval on the name change.

Comment 7

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Thanks Will. I was not able to see the nomination options till now, because they seem to be only available through new developer tools (in English interface)?

I would provide the necessary information for nomination soon.

Comment 8

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Nomination information provided for the dictionary and Firefox and Thunderbird langpacks.
If reviewers needed any other relevant information, I'm fully open to answer anything they might wonder.

Thanks!

Comment 9

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Addons are approved.
Axel, when you had time, would you need anything for approving this name change?

Thanks!

Comment 10

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Attachment: Patch for Catalan locales in locale details class

I provide a patch for the requested changes I ask in this bug.

Comment 11

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Comment on attachment 361779 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch for Catalan locales in locale details class

This looks good to me, let's do this.

Comment 12

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

r23275.  Sites will pick up this change as they update to newer versions of product-details (mozilla.com at the next FF release, AMO on April 9, etc.)

Comment 13

[Bernat]

Although I haven't been invited to this bug, my extensions are affected by this change.

This subtag is listed by IANA with the name Valencian, so I don't understand what was wrong with the previous description. I thought Toni didn't have anything against that name, he was supposedly worried about confusion in bug 433465, but now this move seems to be a call for major trouble. Is the next step asking for removal of Valencian extensions because they're not Catalan?

The creation of that "Catalan (Valencian version)" dictionary as a reaction to bug 432971 might have been aimed at doing this. That bug was closed without being fixed and this dictionary is almost the same as the Catalan one, so it could be listed as another Catalan dictionary, that's what it is. Using it as an excuse to hijack the Valencian subtag is an ugly and unpleasant move.

Axel, if you're sure this is what you want then I'll have to ask for another tag for Valencian.

Comment 14

[Bernat]

Sorry, I mentioned bug 432971 but I really meant bug 435797.

Comment 15

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

(In reply to comment #13)
> Although I haven't been invited to this bug, my extensions are affected by this
> change.
> 
> This subtag is listed by IANA with the name Valencian, so I don't understand
> what was wrong with the previous description. I thought Toni didn't have
> anything against that name, he was supposedly worried about confusion in bug
> 433465, but now this move seems to be a call for major trouble. Is the next
> step asking for removal of Valencian extensions because they're not Catalan?
> 

Bernat, as we commented in previous bugs, I'm not going to ask your addons to be removed.