599730 - SMTP settings should be editable in account settings

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(MailNews Core :: Account Manager, enhancement)

Description

[Christian Holler (:decoder)]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100915 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.10
Build Identifier: 

I often provide technical service to Thunderbird users and I have found that for many non-technical staff, the fact that you can select but not edit your SMTP server in the account settings is misleading.

Next to the drop-down box for SMTP server in the account settings, there should be an edit button that is a shortcut to the usual way to edit SMTP servers. This would greatly improve the UI for unexperienced users.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open account settings for a specific account
2. See drop-down field "Outgoing Server (SMTP)"
Actual Results:  
Cannot edit the SMTP settings here.

Expected Results:  
Should be able to edit the SMTP server here as well.

Comment 1

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

From support people's perspective, there are some requests on SMTP setting to reduce needless help requests or questions.
(1) Move "Outgoing Server(SMTP)" to top, in order that user can see it frequently.
(2) Move "Outgoing Server(SMTP)" to outside of account list pane, because SMTP
    setting is different kind entity from ordinal "Account in Tb".
    Add "Manage SMTP" button under "Create Account" button.
(3) Your request, or similar requests to yours.
AFAIR, I did read all of such idea in other bugs, but I don't know bug for specific request is opened or not. IIRC, bug for (2) exists. 

I think this bug is reasonable enhancement request. I don't know dup or not.

Comment 2

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

FYI.
Current design(great improvement) was implemented by bug 202468. In a proposal of bug 202468 comment #149, "[Settings...]" button is seen at right of SMTP choice box. However, the "SMTP choice box and button" was placed at Server Settings panel in the proposal, so the proposal was rejected, and the idea of "[Settings...]" button was probably lost :-)

Comment 3

[[:Aureliano Buendía]]

Isn't a dupe but I been see this "issue" on multiple forums.
Then we can close this as Invalid and open a new enhancement request according to comment #1!

Anyway this issue is Invalid: decoder-mozilla you can edit all smtps setting after you have scrolled accounts list (on accounts settings window): see

http://support.mozillamessaging.com/bg/kb/Configure+an+Account

Comment 4

[Christian Holler (:decoder)]

(In reply to comment #3)
> Isn't a dupe but I been see this "issue" on multiple forums.
> Then we can close this as Invalid and open a new enhancement request according
> to comment #1!

I disagree with this solution, because it does not solve the described problem.

> 
> Anyway this issue is Invalid: decoder-mozilla you can edit all smtps setting
> after you have scrolled accounts list (on accounts settings window): see
> 
> http://support.mozillamessaging.com/bg/kb/Configure+an+Account

It seems like you did not read my report. I do not have any problems configuring my Thunderbird, I am a system administrator and I have seen many people stepping into the described problem.

I am well aware that you can edit the SMTP settings as you describe, but that does not solve the problem that many people have with the UI layout. People intuitively go to accounts settings and try to change the SMTP settings where for example the IMAP settings are, the UI should respect this behavior.

Comment 5

[[:Aureliano Buendía]]

As I have write in comment #3, your issue "SMTP settings should be editable in account settings" is Invalid because TB grant user to edit your smtp setting!
As noted from Wada in comment #1 and for me in comment #3 (and for you in comment #4) it exists a problem of "visibility" for this section on "account settings": I have open bug #600856 for this reason.

I hope that this is your basically request.

Comment 6

[Christian Holler (:decoder)]

(In reply to comment #5)
> because TB grant user to edit your smtp setting!

This is true, I never said that TB does not grant you to edit the setting at all. What I am saying is, that the UI "traps" unexperienced people. I know it is quite hard for "us" technical people to understand how unexperienced people see the UI, but from what I have learned is that people assume that SMTP settings are under the specific account, which is true (because there is a drop down box there as well).

The point is, that if people find this drop-down box for SMTP, they get stuck there because they assume that this should also be the place to edit them (and not somewhere else).

So the basic request is to add a button there which directs them to the proper location, or at least a hint, a text or something like this.

Comment 7

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

Aureliano Buendía, read my comment #2 and bug 202468 comment #165, please. "Request like this bug I probably had read in the past" was [Settings...] button in bug 202468 comment #149.
See also [Edit], [Add new SMTP], [Delete or Remove] button in my bug 202468 comment #12 and see bugs pointed in the comment, please.
As you say, such button, shorcut to "Outgoing Server(SMTP)" from Account Settings panel, was/is never mandatory. And, because such additional/not-mandatory feature makes implementation of the improvement by bug 202468 complicated and increases workload to implement the improvement by bug 202468, such not-mandatory/nice-to-have features were dropped from improvement by bug 202468.

Aureliano Buendía, why answer to this kind of request for enhancemet in order to improve usability or in order to reduce workload to support/help Tb users can be INVALID? Please note that this bug's Severity at B.M.O is Enhancement.

Comment 8

[:aceman]

I also this request is valid and was prematurely closed. Until bug 600856 produces a better proposal we can keep this open. Aureliano, please observe the exact wording of the bug report (comment 0). If you wanted bug 600856 to collect all the various proposals and the vote on them, that's fine, but you then forgot to copy the proposal from here to that bug. Instead you copied WADA's point (3) verbatim, which makes no sense in that bug :)

Comment 9

[:aceman]

Attachment: patch

What about this? I don't think we have the resources for changing the SMTP infrastructure right now (bug 600856).

Comment 10

[Richard Marti (:Paenglab)]

Comment on attachment 8863168 [details] [diff] [review]
patch

Looks good. Only one question, why do you switch to the SMTP page when editing the server? I think it's better when you stay on the calling page and only open the dialog. Like this the user hasn't to search the page he was before again.

Not a focus of this bug, but I think this part should move to the Server page, as SMTP is a server too.

Comment 11

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #10)
> Comment on attachment 8863168 [details] [diff] [review]
> patch
> 
> Looks good. Only one question, why do you switch to the SMTP page when
> editing the server? I think it's better when you stay on the calling page
> and only open the dialog. Like this the user hasn't to search the page he
> was before again.

does the dialog have all the context of the SMTP page?

> Not a focus of this bug, but I think this part should move to the Server
> page, as SMTP is a server too.

I think that would be problematic. Server Settings is already very busy, essentially full. Plus, SMTP is closely related to identity. So I don't think we should move it from Account Settings.

Comment 12

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Comment on attachment 8863168 [details] [diff] [review]
patch

Review of attachment 8863168 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

An alternative would be just having a linked text saying "SMTP server settings can be edited under the Outgoing Server (SMTP) section"

::: mailnews/base/prefs/content/AccountManager.js
@@ +215,5 @@
> +function selectSMTP(aServerKey, aEditServer = false)
> +{
> +  // Assuming SMTP page is the last one in the tree.
> +  let smtpIndex = gAccountTree.node.view.rowCount - 1;
> +  if (aServerKey != undefined) {

if (aServerKey)

Comment 13

[:aceman]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk, NI for questions) from comment #11)
> (In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #10)
> > Comment on attachment 8863168 [details] [diff] [review]
> > patch
> > 
> > Looks good. Only one question, why do you switch to the SMTP page when
> > editing the server? I think it's better when you stay on the calling page
> > and only open the dialog. Like this the user hasn't to search the page he
> > was before again.
> 
> does the dialog have all the context of the SMTP page?

Yes, this was my reasoning. I didn't want to duplicate too much code from am-smtp into am-main. But yes, the editing of an account is a separate dialog so it would be natural if it just popped up here instead of switching to the SMTP page.
I can try harder to see if this can't be achieved without duplicating code/context.

> > Not a focus of this bug, but I think this part should move to the Server
> > page, as SMTP is a server too.
> 
> I think that would be problematic. Server Settings is already very busy,
> essentially full. Plus, SMTP is closely related to identity. So I don't
> think we should move it from Account Settings.

Yes, even each identity can have its own SMTP server (and the setting is in the identity editor). I wonder if I should put the button there too. From there I can't switch to the SMTP page so just opeding the editing dialog would be even more useful.

Comment 14

[:aceman]

(In reply to Magnus Melin from comment #12)
> An alternative would be just having a linked text saying "SMTP server
> settings can be edited under the Outgoing Server (SMTP) section"

That would be too easy :)
 
> ::: mailnews/base/prefs/content/AccountManager.js
> @@ +215,5 @@
> > +function selectSMTP(aServerKey, aEditServer = false)
> > +{
> > +  // Assuming SMTP page is the last one in the tree.
> > +  let smtpIndex = gAccountTree.node.view.rowCount - 1;
> > +  if (aServerKey != undefined) {
> 
> if (aServerKey)

We also expect a value of "" (mentioned in the patch) which we have to consider as aServerKey defined. So the '!= undefined' must be explicit. 'if ("")' is false, while 'if ("" != undefined)' seems true.

Comment 15

[:aceman]

Attachment: alternative

Reworked version. Opens SMTP editing dialog directly. There is also a SMTP edit button in the identity editor.

Better? :)

Comment 16

[Richard Marti (:Paenglab)]

Comment on attachment 8863915 [details] [diff] [review]
alternative

Looks good, thanks.

Comment 17

[Ian Neal]

Comment on attachment 8863915 [details] [diff] [review]
alternative

LGTM r=me

Comment 18

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Comment on attachment 8863915 [details] [diff] [review]
alternative

Review of attachment 8863915 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I like this better. r=mkmelin

::: mailnews/base/prefs/content/amUtils.js
@@ +203,5 @@
>  
>    return false;
>  }
> +
> +function editSMTPServer(aServer) {

please add documentation what this function does, even if it's very short

Comment 19

[:aceman]

Attachment: patch v1.1

Thanks.

Comment 20

[Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2)]

Comment on attachment 8867288 [details] [diff] [review]
patch v1.1

Review of attachment 8867288 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

::: mailnews/base/prefs/content/amUtils.js
@@ +204,5 @@
>    return false;
>  }
> +
> +/**
> + * Open a dialog to edit properties of a SMTP server.

Nit: "an SMTP server. Since SMTP starts with an "e":
ess emm tee pee ;-)
If you let me check it in, I can fix that.

Comment 21

[:aceman]

Yes, you can do that, thanks.

Comment 22

[Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2)]

Attachment: Picture showing the new button

Comment 23

[Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2)]

https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/14fc229cb4269516f4b4124f105beb8b29117b8a