Closed Bug 629953 Opened 13 years ago Closed 11 years ago

Make input download pages more informative

Categories

(Input Graveyard :: Submission, defect, P1)

Product:
Input Graveyard
Component:
Submission
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: k0scist, Unassigned)

References

Details

I'm on nightlies but Submit feedback... only redirects me to http://input.mozilla.com/en-US/beta/download and prompts me to download.  If it is not desired to accept input from nightlies then this should be noted but it shouldn't tell me to DL the beta.  Also, it'd be nice if http://input.mozilla.com/en-US/beta/ was more explanatory (yeah, I know there's a link, but its nice to be told what the site is about up front at least more than is done).  There's no way of entering feedback there.  

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to enter feedback for nightlies, and I'd like to know!
Yeah, we don't have good story here now that Input is in major releases and betas, but won't be on the nightlies until march or so. Fred, let's hijack this bug to make our beta/download page a little more informative.
OS: Linux → All
Hardware: x86_64 → All
Summary: input.mozilla.com doesn't let me give feedback → Make beta and release download pages more informative
Assignee: nobody → chowse
Priority: -- → P1
Summary: Make beta and release download pages more informative → Make input download pages more informative
Target Milestone: --- → 4.0
I'd also note that users who have switched their user agents are going to see these pages. We should mention add-ons like Phony (on Fennec) and User Agent Switcher (on Firefox) will cause the page to show up.
Chris, can we add a hyperlink and some text, or even a graphical snippet, that directs users to the firefox/channels page instead?
(btw, I love the prototypes)
Some wordsmithing could be done to change "latest version of Firefox" be a bit more inclusive of future versions of firefoxes as well.

How about this:

Thanks for your interest, but to submit feedback you need a [newer version of Firefox](link-to-channels-page).
Chowse isn't around this week.
Assignee: chowse → nobody
Component: Input → Submission
Product: Webtools → Input
QA Contact: input → submission
Target Milestone: 4.0 → 4.x
Version: Trunk → unspecified
I can file bugs for comment #4 and thereafter. I'd like to keep it in 4.0.
Target Milestone: 4.x → 4.0
Target Milestone: 4.0 → 4.1
Moving to 4.x
Target Milestone: 4.1 → 4.x
If bug 669885 is a duplicate of this bug, then the mockups in comment 3 and comment 9 don't fix this bug....
May I add that there is still a problem with the supported current version Firefox 3.6 not being able to use this. Some users will have had to downgrade to 3.6. They then can not use the input feedback. One problem they may have is with problem websites, surely that is info that is useful if they could provide it.

Other problems they may have can not be reported, and telling them to upgrade when they have deliberately downgraded to solve a problem is of no use. 

See also bug 622621 comment35
My spidey-UX sense says this is a pretty frustrating experience for the users. I'm not sure what the reasoning was in the first place for restricting to new or newish versions, but I'd be in favor of allowing all users to comment.
(In reply to comment #15)
> My spidey-UX sense says this is a pretty frustrating experience for the
> users. I'm not sure what the reasoning was in the first place for
> restricting to new or newish versions, but I'd be in favor of allowing all
> users to comment.

It is a frustrating experience, but the anticipated flow is this:

User is frustrated -> tries to leave feedback -> told to upgrade -> realizes that everything is better.

That's the happy path and we have no way of tracking that.

What we don't want to have happen though is

User is frustrated -> leaves feedback -> stays frustrated

Maybe we could do this:

User is frustrated -> leaves feedback -> feedback is submitted, but a carefully worded message says, we noticed you are using an older browser, please Upgrade to the latest Firefox and it might make you feel better -> user is less frustrated because they got to vent, and are more receptive to downloading things.

I am all in favor of opening the gates wider and then shepherding users after they've said their piece.  We can flag old data to omit it from the dashboard.
I'm game for doing exactly what Dave is suggesting. We can easily filter out old feedback, and it's nicer to allow the user to vent, upgrade, and be happy with the new version than shoo them away from leaving feedback at all. Collecting redundant feedback is better than not collecting it at all.
> Maybe we could do this:

That would be _way_ better than what we have now, in my opinion.
What we have are many reports of users (through webmaster@mozilla.org), who tried to update to a newer version or were auto-updated to the newer version, and it failed.  Unable to use FF (or were able to go back to 3.x), they try contacting Mozilla.  Being told to upgrade after that experience, doesn't make them any less frustrated, and they feel it's a catch-22.
(In reply to comment #16)
> (In reply to comment #15)
> > My spidey-UX sense says this is a pretty frustrating experience for the
> > users. I'm not sure what the reasoning was in the first place for
> > restricting to new or newish versions, but I'd be in favor of allowing all
> > users to comment.
> 
> It is a frustrating experience, but the anticipated flow is this:
> 
> User is frustrated -> tries to leave feedback -> told to upgrade -> realizes
> that everything is better.
> 
> That's the happy path and we have no way of tracking that.
> 
> What we don't want to have happen though is
> 
> User is frustrated -> leaves feedback -> stays frustrated
> 
> Maybe we could do this:
> 
> User is frustrated -> leaves feedback -> feedback is submitted, but a
> carefully worded message says, we noticed you are using an older browser,
> please Upgrade to the latest Firefox and it might make you feel better ->
> user is less frustrated because they got to vent, and are more receptive to
> downloading things.
> 
> I am all in favor of opening the gates wider and then shepherding users
> after they've said their piece.  We can flag old data to omit it from the
> dashboard.

Aye, the system we're currently using to block feedback for older versions was really only intended for pre-release users to force upgrade as much as possible. The idea you're proposing is a lot better solution for major release users and our pre-release users. I'd like to have that message **very** visible on the thanks page thereafter though. Feedback from pre-release (i.e. nightly, aurora and beta) users is useless if they're on an older build.
It seems everyone agrees that the solution in comment 16 is the best.
What about just doing it ?
Could this get a more precise target than 4.x ? I think it's urgent to correct it.
(In reply to Jean-Marc Desperrier from comment #21)
> It seems everyone agrees that the solution in comment 16 is the best.
> What about just doing it ?
> Could this get a more precise target than 4.x ? I think it's urgent to
> correct it.

I don't have time until October to start working on this.  We're already accepting feedback for 4.0 and newer, so there's only a small handful we're missing - but I'm willing to take patches if someone is driven enough to complete this before I or someone on my team has a moment.
Firefox 3.6 continues to be fully supported but, feedback from it is not supported. We may be accepting feedback from "4.0 and newer" but that is no longer supported, it is 3.6 that is still supported. (Sorry I have not got the metrics for 3.6 usage, although I suspect it could be significant)

(as an update to my earlier comment : John Hesling [:John99] from comment #14)
> May I add that there is still a problem with the supported current version
> Firefox 3.6 not being able to use this. Some users will have had to
> downgrade to 3.6. They then can not use the input feedback. One problem they
> may have is with problem websites, surely that is info that is useful if
> they could provide it.
> 
> Other problems they may have can not be reported, and telling them to
> upgrade when they have deliberately downgraded to solve a problem is of no
> use. 
> 
> See also bug 622621 comment35

My understanding is that Firefox3.6 is still an important and fully supported version, and may for instance be used by enterprises. This support will aparently continue according to this:

> "Assume the current direction: we're doing updates until you hear differently " 
> [from the latest product delivery meeting notes:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Planning/2011-09-07#Questions.2C_Comments.2C_FYI]
>(Sorry I have not got
> the metrics for 3.6 usage, although I suspect it could be significant)
> 
Apparently it is very significant about 30,000,000 daily users according to https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707599#post-42494 (which apparently extrapolated data from crash stats)
Still receiving weekly complaints about the feedback channel via webmaster@mozilla.org.  Here is one from this morning after I checked on the status of this bug, as I had submitted a similar one that was marked as a duplicate (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666673)

"First and foremost, when I offer feedback, I’m told I must have the most recent version. This limit is so far beyond stupid, that NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration)  - which deals in very large numbers, because it sends spacecraft to distant planets – has not a number to describe how far beyond stupid, is limiting feedback to the current version.
 
I tried the most recent version. I found I could not reliably capture web page content by creating .pdfs. This unreliability makes the newest version totally useless.
 
Thus, I had to abandon the most recent version. As a result of the user-hostile limit on giving feedback, there’s no way to report this foul-up via the website."

The biggest complaint by far is that too many spend the time to write a letter via Feedback, without noticing the 140 character limit (which is very nondescript), it fails without explanation, upsets them, and I have to explain why, which they usually respond, "Who designed that!  How can anything be described in 140 characters?"  I completely agree.
Here is another comment that any "supported" version should be allowed to leave feedback.

"I can understand not wanting feedback about a long-ago superseded version. However, to bar feedback about a just-superseded product, when an upgrade has just been released, seems simply obstructive. It presupposes a smooth upgrade. Ideally, that would be so."
(In reply to Terry R. from comment #26)
> Here is another comment that any "supported" version should be allowed to
> leave feedback.
> 
> "I can understand not wanting feedback about a long-ago superseded version.
> However, to bar feedback about a just-superseded product, when an upgrade
> has just been released, seems simply obstructive. It presupposes a smooth
> upgrade. Ideally, that would be so."

What version are they using?  I guess we shoudl expect some fallout because of the Fx3.6 upgrade to 8.0.1 announcement.
(In reply to Dave Dash [:davedash] from comment #27)
> What version are they using?  I guess we shoudl expect some fallout because
> of the Fx3.6 upgrade to 8.0.1 announcement.

They are using 3.6.xx .  Shouldn't anyone using a "supported" product be able to leave feedback?
(In reply to Terry R. from comment #28)
> (In reply to Dave Dash [:davedash] from comment #27)
> > What version are they using?  I guess we shoudl expect some fallout because
> > of the Fx3.6 upgrade to 8.0.1 announcement.
> 
> They are using 3.6.xx .  Shouldn't anyone using a "supported" product be
> able to leave feedback?

Well it's designed for 4.0+... we could open it up to more, (3.6+) but it may be difficult... we don't really test for 3.6 anymore.
We're also upgrading users from 3.6 to 8+ in a big way and will likely end of life 3.6 within a year's timeframe at the latest.
(In reply to Dave Dash [:davedash] from comment #29)
> Well it's designed for 4.0+... we could open it up to more, (3.6+) but it
> may be difficult... we don't really test for 3.6 anymore.

But 3.6.xx and the current release are the only versions receiving updates, correct?  And from what I understand, feedback can only be left if using the "latest" release, which is confusing to those still using 3.6.xx and receiving updates.  That's what I meant by "supported".  So only the supported versions should be allowed to submit feedback, which would be only 3.6.xx and the current supported release.
(In reply to Aakash Desai [:aakashd] from comment #30)
> We're also upgrading users from 3.6 to 8+ in a big way and will likely end
> of life 3.6 within a year's timeframe at the latest.

Yes, and I have been explaining to all of them (who write in) how to get FF looking like it was prior to the update.  It sure would be nice to have that information included on the first screen displayed after such a radical change.
Still getting numerous complaints to webmaster regarding this issue.  Here is one frustrated user:

Mrs/Ms. Webmaster:
Sorry to put email this to you, but the fools in product feedback, say please download our newest product and reply using that. As you will see that was quite impossible, and impossibly arrogant to demand.

=============================

Dear Product Feedback Department:

Unfortunately I am writing to say, YOUR NEWEST DAMN VERSION KEEPS FREEZING MY SYSTEM. and no it is not a web page I "just opened". And when I say freezing, I mean it hangs totally, so badly I have to use the power button to turn off my system. Which I hope that you, as computer professionals, will realize is a very bad idea.

It happened as soon as I upgraded firefox, happens every time I open firefox, and will not even let me go to the FIREFOX main web page.

I am running a Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Which is a damn shame. I have no problem with my operating system and I will keep it, with its own updates for the life of the machine.

And in this case it is really stupid. I really like Firefox and have recommended it to a number of people on both mac and windows systems as a better alternative to Safari and Explorer, and when a vendor at work software is unfriendly with both safari and firefox (which I use on my work machine which is windows) I keep bugging them to make their software fully compatible with Firefox. So I LIKE YOUR SOFTWARE. AT LEAST I do when I can use it, and when you aren't pulling arrogant shit saying you won't take my feedback unless I use your nonfunctional program.  I don't know if it's just a case of good ideas becoming bloatware (it's a 2010 machine not that old by mac standards), or bad code, or writing for lion only or something I can't even imagine.

Frankly, I don't know what they did to the last update but somebody messed something up big time. And I know I have a lot of tabs open: but when I finally gave up on my tabs and started a new session IT STILL WOULDN'T OPEN THE FIREFOX HOME PAGE... And I had already I looked up the support (using Safari) to go to the general tab in the preferences and say load tabs only when called upon. It still hung. I rebooted. I erased my tabs and tried to go to the home page, no dice, it hung. I rebooted. I went to the firefox page (Using Safari) and downloaded the file to reinstall, I reinstalled, it wouldn't open the firefox homepage, and it hung. I rebooted. So I use SAFARI  to try to tell you there's s PROBLEM  with your UPDATE, and I get ATTITUDE that you won't receive feedback from me if I'm not using Firefox.

BAD BAD BAD UPDATE
BAD BAD BAD ATTITUDE
Still a frustration to Firefox users, who will not use Firefox if no one is there to help them.
(sent to the Mozilla webmaster email)
This morning my Firefox updated and after that I was unable to log in to ANY websites. When I clicked the log in button nothing happened.  I tried to use the troubleshooting feature unsuccessfully. I also tried to report through the browser but was unable to because of the bug in the update.
 
When I tried to report through Internet Explorer I was unable to because I wasn't using firefox. Ultimately I uninstalled forefox. I think that people should be able to report software issues without using firefox because of problems like this.
Another upset user writing to the Mozilla webmaster:

I wanted to ask a question and was dismayed to find your site will not allow anybody to post unless they are using FireFox 10. This is bush league and is just one more strike against Mozilla unfortunately. What annoyed me even more is I could not use my IE 8 to post it either, Again really bush league folks. Don't you realize that if a user of multiple browsers who may have a glitch etc in their Firefox would be unable to use their other working browser to get help?? Come on folks, wake up please.
We just rolled out a new Input. The new Input doesn't force you to download a new version of Firefox when trying to leave feedback. Ergo this isn't relevant anymore. Closing it out as WONTFIX.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 11 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Product: Input → Input Graveyard
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