The ABBR and ACRONYM elements should not use the arrow/question help cursor. As I mentioned in bug 97839, every other place I've seen that cursor pointer used it means you can click to get help information. In the case of these tags it only provides a tooltip after hovering for a while (clicking does nothing), so it's confusing to have that pointer. The pointer should be eliminated. There's already special dotted border underlining to indicate that it's special text. If possible, it'd be better if the tooltip was triggered immediately (or more quickly) on mouse over for these elements. This would be clearer than having the mouse pointer change. The pointer change is especially confusing when over a link, because users may expect the link to take them to more information about the ABBR or ACRONYM.
reporter: what os are you running? Our PC OS List is supposed to be complete.
I've seen this behavior on Windows 2000 Pro, and on Windows 98. My guess would be that this behavior is exhibited regardless of platform, but I could be wrong about that. Can anyone on other platforms (Linux, Mac, etc.) confirm?
Strange... I'm running WinNT 4.0 SP 6. I didn't even think to look. Perhaps IE 5 used to submit this bug didn't identify it as expected? I don't know if other platforms use the same arrow/question cursor or have different platform-specific behavior, so I updated the OS to be WinNT. This may have the same UI impact on all platforms, though.
Linux uses the 'questionable' cursor as well...
ah, hrm. i recently checked in a fix for bugzilla for that, it's possible that bugzilla hasn't tippified since i made that change, i'll email you a question to see if we can sort that out.
Yeah, this is a reasonable complaint. The question cursor is only ever used for the `What's This?' function, which requires a click, whereas we're using it for something else which doesn't require a click. So we're just being confusing. --> Layout. This is probably a one-liner fix in html.css.
This is indeed a one-liner, but what should the cursor be? Just the default arrow cursor?
Should probably be |auto| (or removed completely) for now since nothing else fits the bill. hard-coding it to |default| could be bad... Think <a><abbr></abbr></a>
Of course. My question was: Should <abbr> and <acronym> affect the cursor in any way or should it be determined as it would be normally if the <abbr> and <acronym> are not present?
Just leave the cursor as it would be normally.
Created attachment 78589 [details] [diff] [review] patch imho, we should act as if the abbr wouldn't be there patch to do this
Created attachment 78590 [details] [diff] [review] patch imho, we should act as if the abbr wouldn't be there patch to do this
for some reason that patch doesn't work.... I still get the help cursor....
...because the page I tested is on crack and explicitly sets the help cursor. r=caillon
ccing attinasi since this bug was originally assigned to him
I like the help cursor, that is why I put it in there in the first place. If you remove it here, somebody will just open a bug that it regressed and should be put back. This is a personal-taste and opinion issue.
No, I'm afraid it is not a taste or opinion issue. That is not the function of that cursor. You may wish that the cursor had another meaning and function, but it has the meaning and function that it has.
And this is formalized in what cursor edict?
Sorry for being a smart-ass in my last comment. I do not believe that cursors have immutable meanings, though I'd agree that they do have practical meanings based on conventional wisdom and usage.
I should apologize, too. I'm not a developer, and I'm not a UI designer. I'm just a power user who knows too much for his own good. If I were either of those two, it would not have taken me so long to track down this one reference, which is unfortunately platform specific. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch13c.asp Look for Context Sensitive Help. It gives very specific instructions on how this cursor is to be used. I found this by following one of the User Interface Design bookmarks that ships with Mozilla. Obviously, it is going to be slanted toward Microsoft environments. As I said, I'm not a developer or a UI designer, so I'm afraid I can't draw on a wealth of knowledge for what is appropriate for various platforms. However, a simple search for similar documents in other environments (such as the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines) will yield similar information for those platforms.
'Know what? I really don't care. sr=attinasi for the change - have at it.
Comment on attachment 78589 [details] [diff] [review] patch marking r=caillon sr=attinasi
checked in on trunk leaving open for branch checkin
Comment on attachment 78589 [details] [diff] [review] patch a=dbaron for 1.0 branch checkin
checked into branch, marking fixed
So, has anyone opened a regression bug 'ABBR and ACRONYM elements should have arrow/question cursor' yet? Let me know if you want me to do it ;-)
> So, has anyone opened a regression bug 'ABBR and ACRONYM elements should have > arrow/question cursor' yet? Let me know if you want me to do it ;-) Heh, not AFAIK. However that could be a result of the fact that this really hasn't been checked in into the branch yet. Unfortunately, just commenting 'checked into branch' doesn't trigger CVS to automatically check in the correct patch. Would be nice though... :) Anyway, too bad there isn't a cursor which is an arrow with an exclamation point or something... I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for abbr and acronym. (but I'm no cursor expert). In the meantime, I'm reopening because this particular 'bug' still isn't fixed...
looks like I did check into the branch, just the wrong one - I used MOZILLA_1_0_BRANCH... (http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsquery.cgi?treeid=default&module=all&branch=MOZILLA _1_0_BRANCH&branchtype=match&dir=&file=&filetype=match&who=&whotype=match&sortby =Date&hours=2&date=day&mindate=&maxdate=&cvsroot=%2Fcvsroot) will check into correct branch later
However, "cvs update -r MOZILLA_1_0_0_BRANCH html.css" and http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.0/source/layout/html/document/src/html.css#342 show that this is also fixed on the correct brach. marking fixed again.
adding fixed1.0.0 keyword for branch resolution.
*** Bug 144125 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Verified in the May 21 build (2002-05-21-08).
Verified on OS X 2002-05-19-05 branch and Windows ME 2002-05-22-08 branch.