1102323 - [uk] Make yandex default search plugins (and first) for Ukrainian, desktop and mobile

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Mozilla Localizations :: uk / Ukrainian, defect)

Description

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

We're going (back) to Yandex as default search for ru, be, kk, uk, based on the changes in our search relationships announced in https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/19/promoting-choice-and-innovation-on-the-web/

We'll do an update here for 34, and backport that to aurora (and central).

flod's taking this.

We night need to do another update for a new clid code, but we'll do that when we get it.

Comment 1

[Tim Babych]

Statistically Google is used by 63% of users in Ukraine, Yandex is used only by 34%. 

Moreover, our country is currently at war with Russia, and users of Ukrainian language as a group have strong nationalistic sentiments.

This change will be very badly received by users.

Comment 2

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod] (OOO July 12–20)]

Attachment: bug1102323v1.patch

The desktop version is obsolete (missing extra images), and it's missing a clid parameter (I'm using the ru one).

It's not shipping on /mobile, again using the ru version with yandex.ua as domain

Comment 3

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod] (OOO July 12–20)]

Comment on attachment 8526122 [details] [diff] [review]
bug1102323v1.patch

Review of attachment 8526122 [details] [diff] [review]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Worth a second testing of the searchplugins (tested them in desktop fxdev).

Comment 4

[Tim Babych]

A little elaboration of concerns expressed above.

*Market share*

While in other mentioned countries Yandex either dominates the market (Russia) or at least has similar market share as Google (Belarus, Kazakhstan), the situation in Ukraine is different - Google has 63% here, Yandex has only 34%.

*Privacy*

Yandex is a Russian company, and that raises security concerns among users. Russia has been tightening the screws on internet for years, and currently has laws requiring companies operating in Russia to physically place their servers on Russian territory for easier access by security and police agencies. And Russian government is serious about this. This spring CEO of Vkontakte (largest Russian social network), Pavel Durov, was dismissed from his post for his refusal to hand over personal details of users to Russian security service. Me may contemplate what Google or Facebook do with our data, what do they learn about us, what information they give to advertisers.. - but at least one can be sure that some crooked government official will not be able to get all your info with simple phone call.

*War*

Russia is currently at war with our country. This makes Ukrainian users even more concerned about possibility of their data being accessible to Russian officials. Yandex as a company might not be as strongly tied to government as Mail.ru is, but they still must obey their laws. And they expressed their corporate position clear enough by removing from his post head of their Ukrainian office, Sergey Petrenko, for expressing his pro-Ukrainian position.

Privacy concerns and country-wide boycotting of Russian goods in general has lead Yandex's share to steadily decline through this year. From 46% in February to 34% now. 

*Ukrainian language users as a group*

About 11% of all Firefox users in Ukraine use Ukrainian version, this percentage is slowly rising through the years. This group consists of  Ukrainianophones and Russophones who like the language, while not practicing it daily. Sociological researches showed that such people have more pro-Ukrainian nationalistic sentiments than Russian-speaking Ukrainians. So users of uk localization as a group will be especially unhappy about the change.

And even before sad events of last year, not once did I heard feedback (from Russophones too!) that Ukrainian localization was  chosen for it being non-Yandex. Yes, users not always know they can change defaults.

*Mozilla Manifesto values*

Those concerns will seriously undermine Mozilla values among users of Ukrainian Firefox. They will doubt the company really cares about privacy if it makes user's search history less secure against obviously interested third party. The fight for digital independence may sound hypocritical when fight for real-life country independence is ignored. And it would be difficult to perceive Mozilla as an open project and collaborative effort if community opinion on such symbolic matters is not taken into account.

Comment 5

[pkrupitsa]

I support Timothy! If Yandex will be first search tool, then I think (and I and all my friends and my family) to start used Google Chrome. And I'll think about leaving Ukrainian community Mozilla.

MisterIf - Pavlo Krupitsa from Kherson, Ukraine.

Comment 6

[Artem Polivanchuk]

I'm absolutely agree with Tim.
His arguments are really strong and corresponds to the facts.
Making Yandex as default search engine for Ukrainian Firefox is not a good idea.

Comment 7

[cmtalbert]

Axel, let's put this change on hold and take this to email. All our agreements in the past have been subject to local market preference, I can't imagine this one is different. But let's get the facts of what we have to support in place and figure out what can be done here.

Comment 8

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

In the Town Hall today, Denelle made it clear that she is very aware of this issue and working on it. I emailed her the URL of this bug as well. So hang tight, and wait to hear what she has to say.

Gerv

Comment 9

[Lawrence Mandel [:lmandel] (use needinfo)]

As confirmed by Susan Chen, this is wontfix for 34.

Comment 10

[Mike Connor [:mconnor]]

Hi all,

As a quick update here, we’ve made a decision to postpone this change for the time being, meaning we will at the least not ship this change for Firefox 34.  Time is tight, and we want to take an appropriate amount of time to independently consider some of the concerns raised within the bug.  We’ll continue to examine all of the issues raised, and follow up with the Ukrainian localization team to discuss our findings and an appropriate path forward in December.

Please feel free to reach out to me directly if there are followup questions in the meantime.

Comment 11

[Bogdancev]

Hello all.

There is no free media in Russia. You can go and read Yandex news to see that. Yandex is totally controlled by state.
It is unacceptable for us and for Belarus and for Kazakhstan too as they are "next of the list".

Regards, Sergiy

Comment 12

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Comment on attachment 8526122 [details] [diff] [review]
bug1102323v1.patch

Clearing the review request and making the attachment obsolete.

Doesn't say anything about the technical quality of the patch (I didn't look), but makes it clear that for now, we're not making technical/implementation steps here.

Comment 13

[Lukas Blakk [:lsblakk] use ?needinfo]

Do we need to do anything here for 35?

Comment 14

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod] (OOO July 12–20)]

(In reply to Lukas Blakk [:lsblakk] use ?needinfo from comment #13)
> Do we need to do anything here for 35?

Not that I know, but I'll turn the NI to :mconnor to be sure.

Comment 15

[Mike Connor [:mconnor]]

Nothing to do here at this time, and that will be true until further notice.

Comment 16

[Lukas Blakk [:lsblakk] use ?needinfo]

Thanks all, wontfix again for 35 and bumping tracking to 37 to keep this on our radar.

Comment 17

[Sylvestre Ledru [:Sylvestre]]

No point tracking this for now.

Comment 18

[yuraantonov11]

[Tracking Requested - why for this release]:

Comment 19

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod] (OOO July 12–20)]

Please don't see flags unless you know what you're doing, especially considering comment 17.

Comment 20

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod] (OOO July 12–20)]

I'm going to mark this as WONTFIX, we can always reopen or open a new bug in case this is needed.