Closed Bug 1159713 Opened 10 years ago Closed 8 years ago

Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Folder Views)

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Folder and Message Lists, enhancement)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Folder and Message Lists
Type:
enhancement
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: tanstaafl, Unassigned)

References

Details

(Whiteboard: [wontfix?])

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:37.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/37.0 Build ID: 20150415140819 Steps to reproduce: Tried to find a way to customize the 'Unified Folders' choices. I want to remove all but two: 'All Folders', and 'Favorites'. I also want to add some new ones of my own. Actual results: Noted that there is no way to customize the 'Unified Folders' choices, or to add new ones of my own. Expected results: There should be a 'Customize' choice under View > Folders, to allow for customizing the available choices. I'm fine if the standard/default/built-in choices can only be hidden and not deleted, but it is not fun to have to cycle through all of these (and the 'Compact versions too), when all I need/use are two of them (Favorites and All Folders).
Summary: Allow customization of Unified Folders → Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Unified Folders)
Blocks: 1159716
See Also: → 1163562
Severity: normal → enhancement
Version: 38 → unspecified
(In reply to Charles from comment #0) > I'm fine if the standard/default/built-in choices can only be hidden and not > deleted, but it is not fun to have to cycle through all of these (and the > 'Compact versions too), when all I need/use are two of them (Favorites and > All Folders). I don't understand what you mean by "cycle through all of these"; it's a dropdown list. Just point your mouse to the item you want (or, if you're using the keyboard, use the access key for the item).
I would like to use the Folder Pane View Switcher Addon to bring back the arrows, but not unless/until this bug is implemented...
Also, it would be nice to be able to customize the items in the drop down to only the ones you use. I don't have any use at all for most of them.
Ok, now I'm confused... I just installed the Folder Pane View Switcher Addon to test it since it has been a while, and then after I uninstalled it - I lost the dropdown to select the View, and can't get it back.
(In reply to Charles from comment #3) > I would like to use the Folder Pane View Switcher Addon to bring back the > arrows, but not unless/until this bug is implemented... Then I suggest you contact the author of the extension to request this feature, since I don't think it makes sense to add a feature like this in Thunderbird proper, just so a particular add-on has a little less work to do. In any case, once bug 700976 lands, that add-on will need updated, which would be a good time for the author to add the ability to hide unwanted views. I especially don't think it makes sense for us to support hiding views from the dropdowns. We don't do that for any of our other menus, and I don't see why we would here. Of course, add-ons are free to do this.
Whiteboard: [wontfix?]
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #6) > (In reply to Charles from comment #3) >> I would like to use the Folder Pane View Switcher Addon to bring back the >> arrows, but not unless/until this bug is implemented... > Then I suggest you contact the author of the extension to request this > feature, since I don't think it makes sense to add a feature like this in > Thunderbird proper, I vehemently disagree. > just so a particular add-on has a little less work to do. Come on Jim... I am not asking for this feature so the Addon has less work to do, I'm requesting it because I think it makes perfect sense for the user to be able to customize what goes into these 'Folder Views'. I note here that you apparently like my idea for this name, since you recommended it in bug 700976. > In any case, once bug 700976 lands, that add-on will need updated, which > would be a good time for the author to add the ability to hide unwanted > views. While I firmly believe this should be core functionality, I did ask the Addon author about it, and he said it was more work than he wanted to do, which is why I opened this bug. I'm really trying hard to see why you are so against providing users the ability to customize the UI of Thunderbird, seeing as customizability is one of the primary reasons many people use it in the first place. > I especially don't think it makes sense for us to support hiding views from > the dropdowns. We don't do that for any of our other menus, and I don't see > why we would here. Of course, add-ons are free to do this. Most other menus aren't so highly focused as to purpose.
(In reply to Charles from comment #7) > Come on Jim... I am not asking for this feature so the Addon has less work > to do, I'm requesting it because I think it makes perfect sense for the user > to be able to customize what goes into these 'Folder Views'. It *is* customizable. You can add new folder views[1] as well as modify existing views[2]. I don't see any existing add-ons that would let you delete views, but the hooks should be there. > I note here that you apparently like my idea for this name, since you > recommended it in bug 700976. "Folder Views" is what the code has called it since 2008 (probably earlier, but the version history only goes back that far). I'm just suggesting we use the internal name for it. > While I firmly believe this should be core functionality, I did ask the > Addon author about it, and he said it was more work than he wanted to do, > which is why I opened this bug. It's not Thunderbird's policy to add code to the application itself just because an add-on author doesn't want to write the code in their add-on. Code in Thunderbird should have a clear benefit for Thunderbird itself. I don't see any particular benefit to hiding a couple of menu items in a submenu. It doesn't appreciably help the user navigate to the item they want, since the list is already pretty small. Any code like this has an inherent maintenance burden, and the Thunderbird developers have a responsibility to say "no" to a change that has a greater maintenance burden than potential benefit. Since I haven't seen any significant benefit to this change, I stand by my position: this isn't the sort of change we'd want in Thunderbird. If you have compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to hear it. > I'm really trying hard to see why you are so against providing users the > ability to customize the UI of Thunderbird, seeing as customizability is one > of the primary reasons many people use it in the first place. It is customizable. As I recall, we explicitly designed the folder views so that add-on authors could easily add their own. In fact, the overall customizability of Thunderbird is inherently dependent upon add-ons. I don't see any reason why an add-on isn't a sufficient solution to this problem. > > I especially don't think it makes sense for us to support hiding views from > > the dropdowns. We don't do that for any of our other menus, and I don't see > > why we would here. Of course, add-ons are free to do this. > > Most other menus aren't so highly focused as to purpose. That's not an argument for this. The current number of items in the View -> Folders menu isn't overwhelming to a user; there are only 6 items there. In bug 700976, the current patch for the toolbar menu would only have 8 items, which again is a pretty small number (compare it to the Message menu, which probably *does* need to be pared down). [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/advanced-unread-folders/ [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/smart-folders-for-single-accnt/
Incidentally, one of my most highly desired enhancement requests deals with the Folder Pane Views: bug 1163555 - Allow 'Pinning' (and re-ordering) one or more 'Unified Folders' views to the top of the Folder Pane But it sort of would require the ability to customize the available Views, which is why I feel so strongly about it...
(In reply to Charles from comment #9) > bug 1163555 - Allow 'Pinning' (and re-ordering) one or more 'Unified > Folders' views to the top of the Folder Pane > > But it sort of would require the ability to customize the available Views, > which is why I feel so strongly about it... I don't see why that's necessary. If we added the ability to have two folder lists at the same time, we would probably do it by letting you pick the view mode from a list for both the top and bottom. Nothing about that would require any of the possible views to be hidden/removed. In fact, that's exactly how the old "Additional Folder Views" add-on[1] worked (although it used the arrow-selector, and we'd probably use a dropdown or something). [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/additional-folder-views/
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #10) > I don't see why that's necessary. If we added the ability to have two folder > lists at the same time, we would probably do it by letting you pick the view > mode from a list for both the top and bottom. Nothing about that would > require any of the possible views to be hidden/removed. In fact, that's > exactly how the old "Additional Folder Views" add-on[1] worked (although it > used the arrow-selector, and we'd probably use a dropdown or something). > > [1] > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/additional-folder-views/ Yes, I just discovered this Addon... The main reason I would like this feature to be core functionality is because I think it is useful enough to everyone - and it wouldn't be subject to the whim of an Addon author. But, oh well, that is the nature of open source... I am still at a loss as to how you cannot see the value of this kind of functionality, but that is my problem, not yours... Oh - and all of these Addons you've pointed to are no longer maintained. I know you will probably say that just proves no one wants the feature, but I disagree - it just proves that no one who wants it is skilled enough to code it.
Summary: Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Unified Folders) → Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Folder Views)
I'd actually be happy to see that add-on resurrected, since I used it back in the 2.0 days, and was sad when it broke. It might even be worth incorporating into Thunderbird proper, although I haven't thought enough about all the moving parts to have a solid opinion on it. However, I don't think fixing *this* bug would help us achieve that.
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #12) > I'd actually be happy to see that add-on resurrected, since I used it back > in the 2.0 days, and was sad when it broke. It might even be worth > incorporating into Thunderbird proper, Glad to hear that at least... > although I haven't thought enough about all the moving parts to have a solid opinion on it. Not sure I follow... you seem to be saying that if it is 'too hard' (ie, 'too many moving parts'), then you would be against incorporating it into core, and would fall back to suggesting it be done in an Addon? I'd say the opposite position should be held... if it is 'hard' to do it in core code, wouldn't it by consequence be much harder to do in an Addon, thus making any suggestion that it should be done in an Addon disengenuous at best? > However, I don't think fixing *this* bug would help us achieve that. Ok, you've sold me on that one at least. But I'd still like to see this bug implemented in core code, and still believe that is where it belongs.
(In reply to Charles from comment #13) > Not sure I follow... you seem to be saying that if it is 'too hard' (ie, > 'too many moving parts'), then you would be against incorporating it into > core, and would fall back to suggesting it be done in an Addon? It might be hard to provide a good user experience for enabling/disabling the feature. Add-ons get that for free: you enable it by installing the add-on, and disable it by uninstalling. I haven't thought enough about how I'd do that in Thunderbird-proper. Hopefully the rest of the code would actually be pretty easy, and I'd recommend prototyping this in an add-on even if we do choose to make it a part of Thunderbird-proper.
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #14) > It might be hard to provide a good user experience for enabling/disabling > the feature. Interesting. I was thinking it would be pretty easy - a simple 'Edit choices...' at the bottom of the drop-down list would suffice. Click it, and a little window opens that lets you enable/disable the choices (ones with checkmarks are enabled, unchecked ones are disabled), and allows you to move them up or down. > Add-ons get that for free: you enable it by installing the add-on, and disable > it by uninstalling. I haven't thought enough about how I'd do that in Thunderbird-proper. Not sure what you mean by 'enabling' and 'disabling'. This bug isn't about a new option to toggle. It is just about a way to control what choices are presented in the list of 'Folder Views'. > Hopefully the rest of the code would actually be pretty easy, and I'd > recommend prototyping this in an add-on even if we do choose to make it a > part of Thunderbird-proper. On this we agree wholeheartedly...
(In reply to Charles from comment #11) > (In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #10) > > I don't see why that's necessary. If we added the ability to have two folder > > lists at the same time, we would probably do it by letting you pick the view > > mode from a list for both the top and bottom. Nothing about that would > > require any of the possible views to be hidden/removed. In fact, that's > > exactly how the old "Additional Folder Views" add-on[1] worked (although it > > used the arrow-selector, and we'd probably use a dropdown or something). > > > > [1] > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/additional-folder-views/ > > Yes, I just discovered this Addon... > > The main reason I would like this feature to be core functionality is > because I think it is useful enough to everyone - and it wouldn't be subject > to the whim of an Addon author. > > But, oh well, that is the nature of open source... I am still at a loss as > to how you cannot see the value of this kind of functionality, but that is > my problem, not yours... > > Oh - and all of these Addons you've pointed to are no longer maintained. I would encourage you (in your own interest if nothing else) to start a wiki page of addons that are still desired but need new owners, so that developers looking for projects an pick them up more readily. > I know you will probably say that just proves no one wants the feature, I think that would be presumptuous :) Personally I think we underestimate the power and utility of views and virtual folders (the term I prefer and change bugs to when I encounter them)/saved search for even the average user. (These also could be better documented - I think we have only [1] - and is an oportunity for someone like yourself to contribute) I agree that it would be a good to develop ideas in addons. But I also think think this is an area that should be strategically developed, and is a big potential marketing opportunity for Thunderbird - if the relevant UI of filters, folders and such can be simplified, integrated and improved. Perhaps an area that our UI folks and aceman (given his experience in filters and filter UI) could explore. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/switching-folder-pane-view https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/using-saved-searches
(In reply to Charles from comment #13) > But I'd still like to see this bug implemented in core code, and still > believe that is where it belongs. I checked the code, and it's already possible to remove any existing folder view mode[1] via an add-on. In fact, you probably don't even need a full add-on and could just add a code snippet into userChrome.js. It's not clear to me what else this bug would require. I don't think we need to provide a way for non-technical users to hide folder view modes, since the list of modes is small enough that picking the right one from the list (in the default UI; not using the Folder Pane View Switcher) should be easy. [1] http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/base/content/folderPane.js#227
Can we provide a hidden pref which would list modes that we then automatically removed?
(In reply to :aceman from comment #18) > Can we provide a hidden pref which would list modes that we then > automatically removed? Why? I really don't see any benefit to that when add-ons can do the same, and the use case for simply hiding a few modes is vanishingly small (unless I'm missing something really important).
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #19) > Why? I really don't see any benefit to that when add-ons can do the same, > and the use case for simply hiding a few modes is vanishingly small (unless > I'm missing something really important). Yes, I agree there is only a small number of modes yet. Unless the reporter can somehow say in which case reducing the number of modes allows him to select the ones he wants with less clicks. E.g. if there is some widget where it is possible to cycle the modes via arrow-key or such.
(In reply to :aceman from comment #20) > Yes, I agree there is only a small number of modes yet. Unless the reporter > can somehow say in which case reducing the number of modes allows him to > select the ones he wants with less clicks. E.g. if there is some widget > where it is possible to cycle the modes via arrow-key or such. As you most likely know from your work on the new dropdown-based folder view mode picker, such a widget is present in Thunderbird, although it's hidden by default. Since you either need to modify userChrome.css or install an add-on to restore this unsupported UI, I think it makes sense to hide unwanted modes via userChrome.js or an add-on. When bug 700976 lands, *all* the UI in Thunderbird for picking a folder view mode will use a dropdown, and I think it's easy to pick from 6-10 items in a dropdown. For people who want to do it via the keyboard, all the modes have access keys in the View -> Folders menu, too. One other way of making it easy to switch between modes would be to fix bug 926099 so you can have a tab open for each folder view mode you like.
Ok, as this is my bug, I'll just say, what may seem irrelevant or unnecessary to one person may be very important to someone else. Yes, I want to use the Addon that brings back the arrows, and this is why reducing the number of views from 6 (or soon 8) to only the two I want is so important. However... if bug 1163555 is ever implemented, so I could have 'Favorites' pinned above 'All Folders' (the only two views I really ever use - and zero need for the totally redundant compact versions of each)), there would be no need for this bug/feature request. Lastly - I'd be OK with a way to do this via userChrome.js, but I'd prefer a real pref (more precise, and (maybe) less likely to break if the UI code itself is ever changed again in the future).
(In reply to Jim Porter (:squib) from comment #21) > As you most likely know from your work on the new dropdown-based folder view > mode picker, such a widget is present in Thunderbird, although it's hidden > by default. Since you either need to modify userChrome.css or install an > add-on to restore this unsupported UI, I think it makes sense to hide > unwanted modes via userChrome.js or an add-on. Could you elaborate on this please? I have a profile that has broken this part of the UI - I cannot get the drop-down selector for the views to display. If I install the Addon, I do see the arrows, but when I remove it, nothing...
(In reply to Charles from comment #22) > Yes, I want to use the Addon that brings back the arrows, and this is why > reducing the number of views from 6 (or soon 8) to only the two I want is so > important. The arrows are currently hidden (but not removed) from Thunderbird, and the add-on just un-hides them. Bug 700976 will completely remove them and replace them with a customizable toolbar item that provides a dropdown list to pick the view. Because of this, the author of the Folder Pane View Switcher add-on has two choices: 1) discontinue the add-on, since it won't work, or 2) reimplement the arrows UI from scratch in the add-on. In the case of (2), that would be an ideal time for the *add-on* to allow hiding unwanted views. If you'd like to see this bug fixed in Thunderbird core, we'd need to hear a reason for it that *doesn't* rely on the presence of a specific add-on that uses an old UI element we're replacing.
(In reply to Charles from comment #23) > Could you elaborate on this please? I have a profile that has broken this > part of the UI - I cannot get the drop-down selector for the views to > display. If I install the Addon, I do see the arrows, but when I remove it, > nothing... The patch I'm referring to hasn't landed on comm-central yet, which would explain why you don't see it.
Ah, ok, thanks... weird,, I could have sworn I saw the drop-down list at some point... maybe I was using a test build. Anyway, thanks for working through this with me. Who knows, maybe I'll actually try my hand at resurrecting the Addon myself. I've toyed with the idea of learning to do some programming, with all my endless (heh, right) free time...
On that note - can you point me to some kind of 'where to start' for beginners? I'm assuming it would basically be learning javascript?
Well, yeah, thanks, but I had/have already done that, was hoping for more targeted suggestions from those already intimately involved - often direct targeted advioce is superior to raw googling.
Component: Untriaged → Folder and Message Lists
(In reply to Charles from comment #29) > Well, yeah, thanks, but I had/have already done that, was hoping for more > targeted suggestions from those already intimately involved - often direct > targeted advioce is superior to raw googling. Still working on the addon? If not going well, the advice you seek is at mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird which is cited in several of the documents in that google search.
Given that I can't see we would accept a patch for this bug, fore reasons squib has stated, and that bug 1163555 is clearly the true goal, it makes sense to close this and focus on the more productive path.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → RESOLVED
Closed: 8 years ago
Depends on: 1163555
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
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