1196942 - Create Web-only Thunderbird Beta logo

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Marketing :: Design, task)

Description

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

I'm moving the legacy Thunderbird Channel page to Bedrock, the new www.mozilla.org site platform. The design can follow the current Firefox Channel page, but the problem here is Thunderbird Beta doesn't have its own logo that makes it difficult to distinguish Beta from the Release version.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/channel/
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/channel/

Can we have the ribboned Thunderbird Beta logo like Firefox Beta? It's only for this page, not used in the product. Thanks!

Comment 1

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

See also:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/firefox/channels/
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/thunderbird/channels/

Comment 2

[Jennifer Balaco]

Hi Kohei, 

We will not be creating a version with the beta banner. The correct logo for that is EarlyBird on the Style Guide link you posted above.

Comment 3

[Philipp Preißer-Kewisch [:Fallen][☁️📆]]

The Earlybird logo is used for aurora builds, which is equivalent to Firefox Developer Edition. I do think there should be a separate beta logo with the beta ribbon banner.

Comment 4

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

A different logo I think would be helpful, for consistency, and to help users distinguish the beta

Comment 5

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: Screen Shot 2015-08-31 at 14.30.46.png

Yeah, I still believe Thunderbird Beta requires its logo to avoid confusion on the new Channel page, and this is the same situation as Firefox Beta explained in the style guide:

> In contexts where two Firefox logos can be displayed next to each other> (ex.
> mobile desktops), the version with the Beta sash should be used for added clarity.

See the attached mockup for how it would be if there are two same logos.

Comment 6

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

The bug status is not correct, anyways.

Comment 7

[Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch]]

Hi Kohei and :fallen and Wayne-

Can we move forward without the logo?  I'm not sure when the creative team will have time for this and would hate to block the php shutdown for this.

Thx,
Jen

Comment 8

[Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch]]

Please note:  I spoke with Sean Martell and the official beta logo for Thunderbird is correctly represented here:  https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/thunderbird/channels/

A new visual identity will not be created at this time.

Comment 9

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Okay, then we just need to modify the page design because it's confusing as my mockup shows. It could be based on the current columned page layout:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/channel/

Comment 10

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

it's sort of "OK" as is. Unfortunately the logo alone does not clearly connote or commuicate "beta" to the average user

Comment 11

[Philipp Preißer-Kewisch [:Fallen][☁️📆]]

(In reply to Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch] from comment #8)
> Please note:  I spoke with Sean Martell and the official beta logo for
> Thunderbird is correctly represented here: 
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/thunderbird/channels/
> 
> A new visual identity will not be created at this time.

Just to clarify, does this just mean that the creative team will not spend time on this, or does something speak against changing the logo fundamentally?

Comment 12

[Kent James (:rkent)]

I had made considerable progress in official channels with that Avocet logo, and there were no objections from legal. Unless we hear otherwise, we should assume that we of the Thunderbird community leadership make decisions about the logo, but we do not decide the creative team's priorities.

But given the time constraints, perhaps a design similar to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/channel/ would solve the problem without needing new graphics. Still, if you feel able Kohei to modify the beta logo adding the banner, give it a try and let's look at the result.

Comment 13

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: 3 column layout mockup

This is an alternative, 3 column layout. Still confusing, sort of, but better than the carousel layout I guess.

Comment 14

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: 2 column layout mockup

Or only offer Earlybird and Beta like the existing channel page. It's inconsistent with the Firefox channel page, but causes no confusion.

Comment 15

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Thanks Kohei. My preference is 2 column, as it is focused on testing and therefore less confusing. And in the absence of logo changes I'd like to see a darker background color for the page to help differentiate it from other Thunderbird web page, similar to the Firefox channel page.

Comment 16

[Philipp Preißer-Kewisch [:Fallen][☁️📆]]

Maybe we can keep the actual discussion of what to do as an alternative to a separate bug. For this bug, my question from comment 11 still stands.

Comment 17

[Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch]]

(In reply to Philipp Kewisch [:Fallen] from comment #11)
> (In reply to Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch] from comment #8)
> > Please note:  I spoke with Sean Martell and the official beta logo for
> > Thunderbird is correctly represented here: 
> > https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/thunderbird/channels/
> > 
> > A new visual identity will not be created at this time.
> 
> Just to clarify, does this just mean that the creative team will not spend
> time on this, or does something speak against changing the logo
> fundamentally?

I'll have to let the creative team speak to this question. I don't know what changes are and are not allowed to the Thunderbird logo under the current Thunderbird governance structure (Is the Thunderbird governance council able to create their own logos independently or do then still need approval from the Mozilla brand team?).

Comment 18

[Kent James (:rkent)]

(In reply to Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch] from comment #17)
> 
> I'll have to let the creative team speak to this question. I don't know what
> changes are and are not allowed to the Thunderbird logo under the current
> Thunderbird governance structure (Is the Thunderbird governance council able
> to create their own logos independently or do then still need approval from
> the Mozilla brand team?).

If we were to prepare a modified logo, we would have no interest in pushing something onto Mozilla branding that Mozilla did not want. The issue is more that it is sometimes really hard to get Mozilla to pay any attention to Thunderbird requests at all, even to say "no we won't approve that" (I'm speaking generally here, not about the branding team in particular). So the normal way we would proceed, allowing us to function without being hung up by lack of interest, is to proceed publicly with what we propose, inform the relevant teams about plans, and give them every chance to object.

Bug 1148986 is a good example of that. I don't want the Thunderbird team to be paralyzed because a certain Mozilla team has other priorities, but at the same time we have every intention of being good Mozilla community citizens.

Comment 19

[Jennifer Balaco]

We talked about this today and it's fine for the Thunderbird council have a designer add a beta banner to the logo. It would be nice to do a quick review before it's called final, but Creative doing the work doesn't need to be a blocker.

Comment 20

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

That makes a long story short. I have Adobe Illustrator so I can edit the logo myself and attach the modified one here for a review.

Comment 21

[Jennifer Balaco]

Kohei, 

You can grab the EPS for the Firefox Beta logo and haul out the sash from there for consistency:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/firefox/channels/

Comment 22

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

OK, let me try.

Comment 23

[Philipp Preißer-Kewisch [:Fallen][☁️📆]]

I actually tried using the sash, but since the Thunderbird logo is open at the bottom it looked a little strange. You could put the sash at the top though. As an alternative, maybe you can put a "stamp" on the envelope in the middle that says beta or something like that? Let me know if it doesn't work out, I may have someone I can ask.

Comment 24

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: Thunderbird Beta logo draft

Here are a couple of options. 

A: Put the sash to the same position as the Firefox Beta logo but the bottom part looks a little bit weird, as Philipp says
B: Removed the bottom part; looks cleaner?
C: Moved the sash to the left; looks tight?
D: Added a wax seal stamp; the Beta label is too small

Comment 25

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Blocking the channel page migration again.

Comment 26

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

I agree with the points made in comment 24. I think B looks best. But I'd also be OK with C.

Comment 27

[Jennifer Balaco]

Sean, 

Can you take a quick look and let Kohei know which is preferable? Thanks!

Comment 28

[Sean Martell]

Hey all,

I'd say A or B would be best for consistency, but I'd also like to see it as the red sash, so that it stands out. Changing it to the same colors of the logo itself makes it blend in a bit too much, especially when shrunken down in dock/taskbar usage.

Thanks!

Comment 29

[Philipp Preißer-Kewisch [:Fallen][☁️📆]]

Attachment: Thunderbird Beta logo draft alternative

If one of my drafts is taken someone who is a real designer should take a look at the source eps and correct the edge details, but here are some alternative ideas. Variant E cuts off some of the feathers in favor of putting the sash a bit lower. Variant F should make the impression that the sash is tightly wrapped around the bird.

From the previous mockups I liked the seal a lot, but the word "beta" doesn't really show. Maybe it would work better in white. 

What do you think?

Comment 30

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: Thunderbird Beta logo draft v2

Made the red sash version as Sean suggested.

Comment 31

[Jennifer Balaco]

Setting a needs info for Sean to approve.

Comment 32

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Unblocking the Bedrock porting bug. We can use the new logo later.

Comment 33

[Sean Martell]

Even though the ribbon doesn't wrap, I prefer the look of F.

Thanks all!

Comment 34

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Cool, let's go ahead with the option F!

Comment 35

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: thunderbird-beta.zip

The attached ZIP contains revised EPS, JPG and PNG files. Can someone replace the current files on assets.mozilla.org? Thanks!

Comment 36

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Comment on attachment 8680986 [details]
thunderbird-beta.zip

I'm in trouble with converting the EPS file (CMYK) to JPG and PNG (RGB) files. The colour doesn't match the original one without a sash. Sean, do you know/remember the colour settings (working spaces & conversion options) for this file? I'm using Illustrator CC 2015.

Comment 37

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

smartell seems to be gone

Comment 38

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

My apologies for the absence.

:smartell isn't gone; we were recently on the same flight to/from London. Anyway he must be busy.

I'll give it another shot. Given the Beta logo will be displayed only on https://www.mozilla.org/thunderbird/channel/ the colour output shouldn't be so critical.

Comment 39

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Attachment: thunderbird-beta.zip

These PNGs and JPGs still don't match the non-Beta logo's colour, but better than the previous iteration.

Comment 40

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Can anyone here replace the files on DAM?

https://assets.mozilla.org/portal/assets/#category/68
https://assets.mozilla.org/portal/assets/#category/69

Comment 41

[Kent James (:rkent)]

You should get a review from Richard of the images ([e-mail]).

Comment 42

[Richard Marti (:Paenglab)]

Not sure if my review is still needed but the JPG and PNG files are looking good. I can't check the EPS files but suppose the other files are created from this files.

Comment 43

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

Given the current Thunderbird position, the Beta logo won't be uploaded to DAM. Closing as the logo itself has been made.