SeaMonkey Help: Chapter "Einfügen mathematischer Formeln" missing in German Composer Help

ASSIGNED
Assigned to

Status

Mozilla Localizations
de / German
ASSIGNED
a year ago
a year ago

People

(Reporter: Rainer Bielefeld, Assigned: Peter Schmidt)

Tracking

(Blocks: 1 bug)

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

Attachments

(4 attachments)

(Reporter)

Description

a year ago
Spin off from "Bug 1247386 - SeaMonkey Help composer_help.xhtml: Chapter "Adding Mathematical Formulas to Your Web Page" missing in Localized Composer Help" For German Localization.

As told in Bug 1247386 comment #11  Peter Schmidt is going to create a translation as .xhtml text suggestion, someone else will create a push-ready patch from that.
(Reporter)

Comment 1

a year ago
Peter Schmidt@
I never tried something similar before, but I think easiest way will be:

1. Create a composer_help.xhtml reduced to the Math Formula Insertion part
2. Translate
3. attach translated document here as Attachment so that somebody else can create
   a "push-ready" patch from your translation.

Comment 2

a year ago
I'm happy to just download a document from here and commit it into the repository, let's keep this on as little bureaucracy as needed. And thanks for helping!
(Assignee)

Comment 3

a year ago
Created attachment 8770644 [details]
Composer help text "Adding Mathematical Formulas to Your Web Page" translated to German.

File is ready for use. It is based on the original english composer help file and contains the pointer to "Einfügen von Mathematischen Formeln in die Webseite" (about line 15) and 5 lines later starts the translated help text.
(Reporter)

Comment 4

a year ago
(In reply to Peter Schmidt from comment #3)
Thanks a lot for the translation.

I am not familiar with Help and XHTML, but comparing the translated chapter with the original German "composer_help.xhtml" ist seems that in a second step we will need to do some syntax amendments.

a) In German Help (different to English one) all Menu Names are between aoutes like
   "Einfügen", 
   Syntax: <q>Einfügen</q>
b) I think all German umlauts will have to be encoded 
   Syntax <q>Einf&#252;gen</q>  (included encoding from (a)
   Table with codes here <https://wiki.selfhtml.org/wiki/Referenz:HTML/Zeichenreferenz>
c) I think the series of ":" in the directions paragraph is difficult to read
   My suggestion: 
   old:  Richtung: Von links nach rechts: Wenn aktiviert: Die Formel wird ...
   new:  Richtung <B>Von links nach rechts</B>: Die Formel wird ...
         (bold)
         or alternatively with (additional?) quotes?
d) IDs should keep English language what will ease indexing and links 
   between pages. So heading should be 
   <h1 xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" id="adding_mathematical_formulas_to_your_web_page">Mathematische Formeln in eine Webseite einf&#252;gen</h1>
   Same for other pages.

I could do these amendments, but I do not trust my xhtml editing :-/
May be I would do more xhtml destruction than improvement.

@ Robert Kaiser :
Additional hints? 

@Peter Schmidt:
Can you do these amendments with your tools?
Assignee: nobody → schmidt-pe
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED

Comment 5

a year ago
(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #4)
> a) In German Help (different to English one) all Menu Names are between
> aoutes like
>    "Einfügen", 
>    Syntax: <q>Einfügen</q>

In documents we re-do, we should stick to the same syntax as the English one, there may be remnants from the long-gone past in the German stuff and we should grow closer to the English originals.

> b) I think all German umlauts will have to be encoded 

No, not if everything is UTF-8. This was different a long time in the past and therefore a lot of encoded characters are in the existing documents, but we can safely do everything in UTF-8 unicode now.

> c) I think the series of ":" in the directions paragraph is difficult to read

What does the English version do? We should stick close to that, and if you find that difficult to read as well, let's get that patched first.

> d) IDs should keep English language what will ease indexing and links 
>    between pages.

Yes, please only translate the actual contents and not the IDs, ideally.

Comment 6

a year ago
(In reply to Robert Kaiser from comment #5)
> Yes, please only translate the actual contents and not the IDs, ideally.

Oh, and that includes the document names, btw.

Comment 7

a year ago
And it would be easiest for me if you would attach a complete German composer_help.xhtml with the changes included.
(Reporter)

Comment 8

a year ago
(In reply to Robert Kaiser from comment #5)
Thanks for review, it weems that that will ease a lot.

> In documents we re-do, we should stick to the same syntax as the English
> one, 
Full ack in general, but in this special case we will need a solution what separates Names like 'Menü "Einfügen"' from normal words in the text (... durch
"Einfügen eines Leerzeichens ...". Otherwise texts are difficult to read. In English language capitalization makes the difference (insert  - Insert), that might work for my example above, but not in general. May be we should discuss somewhere whether the wrong "NameQuote" is optimum or whether we should find something better (italics, for example). Until we have a solution I suggest to keep the <q></q>.

> No, not if everything is UTF-8.
Full ack, I alos think that coding has historic reasons here, dropping that fossil would ease editing a lot.

> What does the English version do? 
I think little changes in phrasing similar to my example or
  Richtung <B>Von links nach rechts</B> legt die Formel in Schreibrichtung 
  <i> links nach rechts</i> an 
or similar. Italic only as a suggestion for emphasis, may be CSS has better possibility

Comment 9

a year ago
In general, I'm against adding emphasis tags or similar that are not there in the English original, unless you have agreement and patches up for them to be added in the English variant as well.
(Assignee)

Comment 10

a year ago
(In reply to Robert Kaiser from comment #7)
> And it would be easiest for me if you would attach a complete German
> composer_help.xhtml with the changes included.

I would do that, but please where can I get the actual German
> composer_help.xhtml

Comment 11

a year ago
https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/de/file/tip/suite/chrome/common/help/composer_help.xhtml for a nicely readable version or https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/de/raw-file/tip/suite/chrome/common/help/composer_help.xhtml for the actual raw file.
(Assignee)

Comment 12

a year ago
Created attachment 8770973 [details]
Composer help text "Adding Mathematical Formulas to Your Web Page" translated to German Version 2.

Have changed some "readability" to be more conform to the english version and the coding of German "Umlauts ä,ö,ü" (seems to be done automatically by the Seamonkey Composer.)
(Assignee)

Comment 13

a year ago
Created attachment 8771158 [details]
composer help file for de with Mathematical Formulars added

Have added the section "Einfügen von Mathematischen Formeln in die Webseite" into composer_help.xhtml. Also I have changed all "ID=..." to the original english language. There is only one new problem:  MathML and LaTeX are missing in the German glossary. 
If needed I can also do the translation for this 2 entrys.
(Reporter)

Comment 14

a year ago
(In reply to Robert Kaiser from comment #9)
> In general, I'm against adding emphasis tags or similar that are not there
> in the English original, 

Well, goal is not to create something as close as possible to the English original Help, but to create Help in German language. And for this "Die amtliche Regelung der deutschen Rechtschreibung", §94, Chapter 3 is decisive, what probably long ago caused the decision to use <q></q> in German Help.
But of course it is appropriate to use a compromise as a common solution for all languages which is fulfilling the intention of this and other language specific rules. I currently examine Help in several different languages and I will present the different habits concerning menu names as a base for a decision at mozilla.dev.l10n, soon.

Comment 15

a year ago
(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #14)
> Well, goal is not to create something as close as possible to the English
> original Help, but to create Help in German language.

The goal is to make a localization of the original, not a different product.
(Assignee)

Comment 16

a year ago
Created attachment 8772196 [details]
Added "LaTeX" and "MathML" to the German glossary.

Because there are referenced in the composer_help.xhtml I have added "LaTeX" and "MathML" to the German glossary.
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