Closed Bug 129875 Opened 22 years ago Closed 21 years ago

argos.co.uk - blocking ns6 / needs test

Categories

(Tech Evangelism Graveyard :: English Other, defect, P1)

Product:
Tech Evangelism Graveyard
Component:
English Other
Platform:
x86
All
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED FIXED

People

(Reporter: ian, Assigned: tristan)

References

(
URL
)

Details

(Keywords: ecommerce, Whiteboard: [deny]) 

www.argos.co.uk:

   Coming Soon...

   Sorry, the Argos Internet site cannot currently be viewed using
   Netscape 6 or other browsers with the same rendering engine.

   In the meantime, please use a different web browser or call
   0870 600 2020 to order items from the Argos catalogue.
This looks like 98521, only with a nicer summary :)

Anyway, after spending a while being redirected to various people through their
phone system, I finally got a manager to phone me back.

I told them the wonderful news of the new AOL client that will break their site,
and I was told that the NS6 version of the site was well under way, but taking
longer than most. So, they *are* working on it, and it should be done soon.
Cool.
*** Bug 98521 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
updating summary to make it more meaningfull in evang-land
Summary: Argos doesn't like us → argos.co.uk - blocking ns6 / needs test
adding [deny]
Setting P1. (e-commerce site)
Changing severity to normal.

confirming on 099 on WinXP.
contacts : 
Kam.Sehajpal@argos.co.uk (on mission statement page)
and order.enquiries@argos.co.uk (on the contact page)
Severity: trivial → normal
Priority: -- → P1
Whiteboard: [deny]
*** Bug 144714 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Despite comment #1 stating that it will be fixed "soon", the site is still
rejecting connections from Mozilla - 5 months later
Got conf call with Argos. They have a huge issue with their validation.js code
re: regexp. Mat is working on it. Fix expected very soon. They should remove the
blocking page in a few weeks after they have a fix in hand, just time for them
to QA the fiw we will submit.

Accepting bug. CCing Mat
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
for those interested, the problem lies in the validate() function, in 
http://www.argos.co.uk/_global/v2/mocha/validationLight.js
. Im trying to figure what's happenning here...
Mat

I have some time to spare and am willing to help fix this validation issue.

Please can you give me a quick heads up on wha tht especific problem is and
where I can see it occurring...
actually, it looks like its more a problem on their side.
they are using <input name="something*BLAH"> . for some reason, their tests
showed up that, when sending the information to the server, internet explorer
was stripping the star and everything after it, and ns 6.1 was not. my tests
with ie 5.5 and mozilla 1.0 showed up that both werent stripping at all, so im
confused.

anyway, stars and such characters are forbidden here.
see http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-name . they told us that they
will eventually get rid of them if that's the only way to fix that problem.

if you really have some spare time for evangelism, pick any Tech Evang / europe
west without [havefix] in the status wb :)
I emailed Kam.Sehajpal@argos.co.uk to ask for progress on this bug, I got back
"Unknown Recipient".
By the 9th of November this bug will be eight months old. I would suggest that
until Argos fix their site for Mozilla/NS6-7 users (if they ever do), go to
their nearest competitor, Littlewoods Index. They offer the same sort of
catalogue store type service as Argos, and their site works fine with
all the Mozilla based browsers that I use.

Their site is at http://www.littlewoodsindex.com/

Also, it'd be worth the while contacting Argos to let them know you'll be
shopping with their nearest competitor until this issue is fully resolved.
The current "customer service" for non-order enquiries contact seems to be
order.enquiries2@argos.co.uk, subject "Argos Direct General Enquiry".

But they obviously don't really care about their website, so even if/when they
get it working, I imagine many people (like me) will have already have been put
off using it.
Argos.co.uk website now opens without the Netscape 6 blocker message
in Phoenix 0.4, but still blocked in NS7 and current Mozilla builds.

View Page Source window for Argos homepage is blank in Phoenix 0.4.
This one is really starting to annoy me - I think their site technology actually
works fine with Gecko, they just have less than adequate web developers who are
worried about learning how to get good layout cross-browser.

When was the last response recieved from the Argos manager responsible for the site?
Well, it worked with Phoenix 0.4, But it's no access again with Phoenix 0.5!

If I was the owner or CEO of Argos, and found out that my company was losing
money (and potential customers) due to this, the lazy web developers involved
would get their **** kicked . . . in the direction of the nearest dole queue! 
I agree, they should definitely sack whoever does their web dev.

The latest lame reply I've had from Argos:

From: Order Enquiries <Order.Enquiries@argos.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Argos Direct General Enquiry
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:14:00 -0000
 Dear Mr Jackson,

 Thank you for your email.

 I am sorry to hear of the problems you have experienced. I have now looked
 into your enquiry and I can confirm that we are releasing our new website in
 March next year and all compatibility issues will have been addressed and
 resolved so as the site is compatible with all popular web browsers.

 I am sorry for any inconvenience caused by this matter.

 If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us
 on 0870 600 8784 or by email at order.enquiries@argos.co.uk

 Kind Regards


 Ben Gray
 Argos Direct Customer Services
Setting OS to All as it's not just Linux it happens on.
OS: Linux → All
Adding ecommerce keyword
Keywords: ecommerce
Just received simliar reply from Argos as Comment #18 above;  but now it's
"after March" :-/

But they did apologise twice ;)
So, by the time they say they'll have this problem fixed, the Argos.co.uk website
will have been broken for over a year! By now, if I had my way, the developers
would've been replaced and claiming Jobseekers Allowance for several months!

(I wonder if Argos stock the book, "Web Design for Dummies" ?!?)
The same problem now affects www.jungle.com which is the website of a company
owned by Argos.  All links from the main index page go to Argos's website.  I've
bought stuff from Jungle since this bug was submitted, so they obviously have
moved operations to argos.co.uk fairly recently, and are now incompatible with
NS 6, Mozilla, etc.
Well, if you have a customer account with Jungle.com, cancel it. I'll be doing
just that tomorrow,by phone,and letting them know that I'm no longer able to
purchase anything from them, because they now link to a broken website.
Well, it is now a whole year since the Argos website was reported
as broken. All I can say to this is, "**** Anniversary, Argos!"

Boycott Argos! Go here instead: http://www.littlewoodsindex.com/
best thing is the message you get with javascript turned off
<begin quote>
Sorry, in order for you to use this site (and to enjoy a better all-round web
experience) you will need to update your browser.

The Argos site runs off all browsers from Internet Explorer version 4.01
upwards, and Netscape version 4.07 upwards.

Updating your browser is a simple process and can be done quickly by going
through the link below.
<end quote>
LOL! Upgrade your v7.x browser to a v4.x browser! Extreme fuzzy logic. Not
only are they **** at fixing their website, they are **** at maths as well!
Here's another irony . . . while Argos.co.uk continues to block non-M$
browsers, they have site for selling clothes @ www.argosadditions.co.uk,
and that site works perfectly well in all non-M$ browsers. I've tested it
with both NS.02, Moz1.4a, plus a fairly recent nightly build of Firebird,
and the site displays well in all of them. Not tested it with Opera 7.x
yet, but the question is, if they have a site that works well across
most non-M$ browsers, why on earth can't they fix up their main site
to also work in browsers other than Internet Exploiter?!?
Ok, using latest Firebird build (030424), with UA plugin set to Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1), the site appears to work fine, with the
exception of the Reserve Online section which returns a blank box for the list
of stores in your area. If there is more than one store found (try M33 in
postcode) it insists you select one; if only one store is found (try Sale in
town), then clicking continue works.

I have been advised by Sir Alan Rudge's secretary (non-Executive director, GUS
PLC - the parent company) to phone the Argos Company Secretary as it is an
accessibility issue (big thing in the UK at the moment).

I'll keep you posted.
The site has blocked Gecko-based browsers for years and I doubt they have any
intention to change it. It seems to block all Gecko-based browsers based on
their UA string or UA product-tokens.  I have often used the site with various
versions of Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird (or Phoenix) and Netscape Navigator, and
it works fine with these browsers (as long as one changes the UA string sent by
the browser).
I forgot to mention in my last note that, if one uses any browser that is not
MSIE or gecko-based to acess the site, a page appears with one of the following
messages:

===
Sorry, in order for you to use this site (and to enjoy a better all-round web
experience) you will need to update your browser. 

The Argos site runs off all browsers from Internet Explorer version 4.01
upwards, and Netscape version 4.07 upwards.

Updating your browser is a simple process and can be done quickly by going
through the link below.
===

Or for non-JS browsers:

===
The official Argos catalogue website. Choose from over 10,000 inspirational
products and let us deliver to your door or collect from your nearest Argos
store. The Argos catalogue website requires the use of a browser which supports
JavaScript 1.2 / JScript 3.0.
===

The above messages has being presented to all other browsers I have tested in
for at least a year.

It is funny that they are urging people with other browsers to download NN, and
then, when NN is used to access the site, they say that they do not support NN
after all and one needs MSIE.
After altering my UA string in order to view Argos's website, I found the phone
number for the web team, +44 (0)870 600 8784.  They say that a new website has
been created (which is cross-browser-compatible) and it will be uploaded in
June. Fingers crossed :) .
The Argos website appears to have been redesigned and basic navigation seems to
work (I haven't tried buying anything :-).  

(Tested with Firebird 0.6 and Mozilla 1.3)
new website is ok.
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 21 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
The new website is not awfully great from a technical (HTML) or design-and-looks
point of view (what is it with the cyan/orange/mauve/puke colours?), but it is
reasonable and, most importantly, it all works with Gecko AFAICC so far.
Hallelujah! It took fifteen whole months but The Argos webdevs have finally
seen sense and stopped blocking web browsers other than IE with obnoxious
and misleading "browser update" messages. Well, they've sort of seen
sense, they're still somewhat pro-IE. (booo!)

Quoted from
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ArgosStaticPageSecondLevel?&includeName=FAQ.jsp#21

Will this site work on my browser?

This website works best with Internet Explorer version 5.0
or later and Netscape 6.2 or later on PC. For Mac users the
website works best with Internet Expolorer version 5.1.6.

You should be able to access the website using any browser
but the user experience provided may not be of the standard
provided by the using the browser versions above.

You may download the latest browser version for Internet Explorer from:
www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&catergoryid=6

You may download the latest browser version for Netscape from:
channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/default.jsp

Now, I wonder if proffs.nu will ever start to support non-IE
browsers anytime soon? Oh, look . . . there goes a flying pig!
tech evang june 2003 reorg
Component: Europe: West → English Other
Product: Tech Evangelism → Tech Evangelism Graveyard
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