Monterail Sample Thunderbird UI redesign [tracking]

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enhancement
2 years ago
7 months ago

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(Reporter: mkmelin, Assigned: Paenglab)

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({meta})

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(17 attachments, 12 obsolete attachments)

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(Reporter)

Description

2 years ago
Tracking bug for the Monterail Sample Thunderbird UI redesign (discussed on tb-planning). 

Not sure exactly what parts we want, but this bug is for moving that work forwards.

http://monterail.com/blog/assets/images/email-clients/thunderbird-redesign-message-preview.png

Comment 1

2 years ago
I'm still unsure what parts of it were actually real changes, vs simple UI tweaks that any Theme coiuld manage?
(In reply to Charles from comment #1)
> I'm still unsure what parts of it were actually real changes, vs simple UI
> tweaks that any Theme coiuld manage?

What does it matter? Someone can figure it out ... the parts that are real changes get bugs that block this, the parts that aren't bugs could be documented somewhere.
Keywords: meta
Summary: Monterail Sample Thunderbird UI redesign → Monterail Sample Thunderbird UI redesign [tracking]

Comment 4

2 years ago
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: feedback+

Updated

2 years ago
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: feedback+

Comment 5

2 years ago
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: feedback+

Comment 6

2 years ago
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: feedback+

Comment 7

2 years ago
Comment on attachment 8825841 [details]
Thunderbird Redesign.png

You might not know what these flags mean.

Before anything gets committed to the code base, it needs to undergo a review process. So review is requested (review?) and the *authorised* reviewer can grant the review by setting the review+ flag.

We usually don't review images but code patches.
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825841 - Flags: feedback+

Updated

2 years ago
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825842 - Flags: feedback+

Updated

2 years ago
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825843 - Flags: feedback+

Comment 8

2 years ago
Comment on attachment 8825844 [details]
Thunderbird Redesign swipe delete@2x.png

Next time you're not sure, please ask.
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: ui-review+
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: review+
Attachment #8825844 - Flags: feedback+

Comment 9

2 years ago
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) from comment #8)
> Comment on attachment 8825844 [details]
> Thunderbird Redesign swipe delete@2x.png
> 
> Next time you're not sure, please ask.

Thank you for explanation and correction. My motivation was to receive some feedback but I misunderstood the rules (my bad).

Comment 10

2 years ago
You need to request ui-review by setting the ui-review flag to "?" and nominating a reviewer, perhaps Richard Marti who is the Theme owner (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/Thunderbird#Theme).

That said, we mostly review code patches that implement a new UI, not screenshots which are mock-ups (are they not?).

There has been some feedback given on the tb-planning list:
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/tb-planning/2016-November/date.html
Sorry, I don't have the time to summarise this for you now.

My personal comment was that you waste a lot of space in the 3-pane. People have a lot of mail and they want to see it at a glance instead of scrolling. People tend to have many accounts, not just two Gmail accounts. My folder pane is virtually many meters high. The vertical view is nothing new and some of the changes in the header pane seem to have been taken from Postbox.

Some graphic elements you introduced are nice, but unless you can improve the workflow, people won't be interested in visual niceties. Anyway, just my two cents worth of wisdom.

You really need to describe the functional elements of your new design and then submit patches so we can try them in Thunderbird. Then it's time for a review.
Dear Monterail team,

thank you so much for creating this beautiful design! It looks really fresh and new.

I also appreciate that you - deliberately - did not change the whole UI design, but left things mostly as they are, logically. You merely changed the style, and I think that will go down well with our users. They don't like drastic functional changes or UI layout changes very much, but I think they will love your fresh style very much.

Just 2 little details:

I have to agree with Jorg K in one point: The message pane has a lot of empty vertical space, a lot of white space between the lines. It looks nice, light, but also means I see a lot less messages at once, without real gain. That's technically a regression, so we should keep the same line height.

OTOH, I do think it's a great idea to insert empty lines between accounts. This will really help end users. Power users can easily make the distinction, but for normal users, this white space makes the distinction that these are totally separate accounts (and not just 2 different folders) much clearer. I think that's a good change. Even for me as power user with literally hundreds and hundreds of mail folders and about 10 accounts, I would be able to live with this change, or it would even help me.

Aside from that, I love the new style, and I would really like to see this implemented.

Richard, would you be willing to give this a go and implement it?
Flags: needinfo?(richard.marti)
If you implement this, please:
* only the pure style changes (colors, border, background picture, icons etc. - technically, skin/ directory only), no functional changes for now, nor re-arranging UI elements. These can be discussed separately and individually.
* We also don't want to waste screen real estate. Particularly, in the thread pane (the list of messages), the line height should stay the same.
(Assignee)

Comment 13

2 years ago
I think, this is Monterail who has to begin with this. And as a start, this should be first implemented as a theme. This doesn't mean it has to be a full theme. We can only change some parts and the rest uses the default theme. Then, when we agree it looks good to use as default, it would be easy to implement in tree. I can help Monterail to create the theme.

But to start with this we need the icons, the color codes etc. from Monterail. I've seen until now only the main window's 3-pane mockup. We need also to style the Address book, the Composer and also the Chat tab etc. to have a consistent appearance of TB.
Flags: needinfo?(richard.marti)

Comment 14

2 years ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #13)
> I think, this is Monterail who has to begin with this. And as a start, this
> should be first implemented as a theme.

I still fail to see how this mock-up is/was anything other than a minor change of theme. I don't see anything else in it that can be described as anything else.
Charles, yes, it's a theme change.

Richard, of course you need the icons and source files and everything. I've emailed Monterail to provide them here.
Contributed by Krystian Polański of Monterail
Posted file tb-icons.zip
Icons

Contributed by Krystian Polański of Monterail
Assignee: nobody → ben.bucksch

Updated

2 years ago
Assignee: ben.bucksch → richard.marti
Krystian writes: [Some] Icons used in header of Mails List [are] from fontawesome. Certainly, we could design custom icons.

Comment 19

2 years ago
Hmm, https://sketchapp.com/, isn't there another format that's more accessible? Also, it's considered bad style in a volunteer-driven community to assign a bug to someone. Either they assign it to themselves or ask for it.
Jörg, you don't know the context. I'm discussing with both Monterail and Richard per email.

We asked them for the source material. Sketchapp is the application that they used to create it. They provided all source material, as requested, and I put it here for the record. Use the sketch file or leave it, as you wish. They also provided the screenshots of the mockups as PNG. Most importantly, they provided the images as SVGs in the ZIP that I attached. That's useful and necessary.

Please note that they are creative persons, and did the design only. Developers have different tools and procedures. You can't expect a designer to code.

In my professional job, I usually had nothing more as spec than a mockup and the icon files, either. Icons as SVGs are luxury. I used a color picker to get the color values from the image, and that's all I had to work with. That's all business as usual.
(Assignee)

Comment 21

2 years ago
Posted patch WIP 1Splinter Review
Patch needs bug 1346331 applied first.

This is a first WIP patch. It is Windows only. Implemented is the titlebar background color for all versions except Aero and High Contrast themes. Also the folder pane colors are done for all versions except HC. I've already applied some icons on the folder pane and tabs. I used the icon size 16px * 16px but the icons are mostly 12px, so we need to decide what should be used.

A try build can be found here: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/try-builds/richard.marti@gmail.com-adc30f6f41d524ce4ec1a1d6a465df2a74a4e829/try-comm-central-win32/

Comment 22

2 years ago
(In reply to Charles from comment #14)
> I still fail to see how this mock-up is/was anything other than a minor
> change of theme. I don't see anything else in it that can be described as
> anything else.

Well, the "Thunderbird Redesign swipe delete@2x.png" image has something like a trash can inside the message list as if they are trying to delete something. That looks like a functional change.

Comment 23

2 years ago
I hate this kind of flat non-UI. I can't imagine this lands in TB as is by default. At worst, most of the changes could get into Windows 10 theme (where the only benefit would be that it fits into the awful Windows UI), but not into Win 7. For other platforms, some of the changes could be useful and should be discussed in separate bugs as already proposed.
(Assignee)

Comment 24

2 years ago
Under https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/try-builds/richard.marti@gmail.com-e24def3ce47ce9f6898aa76884d950fcfc61b361/ you can find try builds for all platforms.

What have I done?

1. I implemented the folder pane like the mockup (colors, icons, treeline colors) for all platforms except Windows Classic and HC (don't check it there as some icons are white on white). The servers have no icons, only all folders. The template, saved search, RSS and newsgroup folder have still the old icons because the new are missing (hey, Krystian ;-) ). The twisties are the system ones but need also to be done to fit with the background color.

2. The tabbar and the titlebar (where possible) are now petrol green (or how is this color named?) Win7 Aero with draw in titlebar has still the Glass tab- and titlebar as I think this should still have the system appearance and also to show how it looks with only the changed folderpane. On macOS I also gave the tab- and titlebar the petrol green. Again except Win Classic and HC.

Not implemented are the toolbar icons and the coloring of the other toolbars. The messagepane is for me impossible to do as we are limited with the actual tree implementation.

I made this as a base for discussion if this could be the way further. If we want this, we should do it on all platforms as a identity of TB and not only for Win 10 or so.

Also Krystian and Szymon what do you think about this WIP?
Thank you, Richard! I like it.

Here's how it looks on my Linux system with Ubuntu and ThinIce GTK theme. I really love the ThinIce theme, but it just looks just horrible in Thunderbird. I like the new Monterail design much better.

As you can see from the screenshot, there are a few things still off:
* The tabs, toolbar, and quicksearch bar are still grey and look out of place. (Worse, as before, the toolbar and quicksearch bar have different greys.)
* Folders and accounts with new (not just unread) mail are yellow- This looks odd on the green background.
* The column headers are missing the hover effect. (However, I do like that the headers are white instead of greyish as in the mockup.)
* The background picture in the bottom of the folder pane is missing. I found that to be one of the nicest features.

I really like:
* The new folder pane icons
* The colors (green and white)
* The green changes from dark green to turquoise when Thunderbird window lost focus. This is great, I like it - both the effect, it's useful, and the actual colors. (But only the menubar changes. Everything that has that dark green should change as well, including the folder pane and other places.)
(Assignee)

Comment 26

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #25)
> Created attachment 8854306 [details]
> Screenshot Linux: old vs. current state from Richard
> 
> As you can see from the screenshot, there are a few things still off:
> * The tabs, toolbar, and quicksearch bar are still grey and look out of
> place. (Worse, as before, the toolbar and quicksearch bar have different
> greys.)

Setting a fixed white background can make it look better on standard bright themes but on dark themes it would look like an alien. But the searchboxes could be done in a other bug.

> * Folders and accounts with new (not just unread) mail are yellow- This
> looks odd on the green background.

I used intentionally this color to highlight it an d get some reaction ;). A light blue like the new drawer's color would be better.

> * The column headers are missing the hover effect. (However, I do like that
> the headers are white instead of greyish as in the mockup.)

I changed nothing here. What version is the left TB? This is more the change to GTK3.

> * The background picture in the bottom of the folder pane is missing. I
> found that to be one of the nicest features.

This isn't implemented as it is missing in the zip file. Krystian or Szymon can you send it?

> I really like:
> * The new folder pane icons
> * The colors (green and white)
> * The green changes from dark green to turquoise when Thunderbird window
> lost focus. This is great, I like it - both the effect, it's useful, and the
> actual colors. (But only the menubar changes. Everything that has that dark
> green should change as well, including the folder pane and other places.)

Can be done.
> What version is the left TB?

TB 45, my production Thunderbird.

> Setting a fixed white background can make it look better on standard bright themes
> but on dark themes it would look like an alien.

I think it's more important that the colors within Thunderbird fit to each other. You can't use just one color from the desktop theme and mix it with Thunderbird-set colors. It's all or nothing. If you use some colors from the desktop and some custom ones, and the colors will clash. In my case, it's different greys that clash, but it could be other combinations, too.

> But the searchboxes could be done in a other bug.

FWIW, in the TB45 theme, it's the toolbar that has the wrong color. The quick search bar is correct.

> I used intentionally this [yellow] to highlight it and get some reaction ;)

ah, you succeeded :)

Do you want Krystian to pick a color?
(Assignee)

Comment 28

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #27)
> > What version is the left TB?
> 
> TB 45, my production Thunderbird.

That's the difference of the treeheaders TB 45 uses GTK2.

> > I used intentionally this [yellow] to highlight it and get some reaction ;)
> 
> ah, you succeeded :)
> 
> Do you want Krystian to pick a color?

Yes, I propose #b2f2ff like the sent icon and the folder icon. When I hear nothing here, I send him a mail with this and my icon wishes.
This is a screenshot of TB trunk (not TB45) vs. Richard's WIP, on Linux.
Attachment #8854306 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Hey Richard, Ben

Couldn’t answer you sooner because of 2 days workshops, which ended today.

First of fall – thanks for the builds! It looks really nice! :)

* About the columns header – I admit that I find white or light gray header as a better solution than it was done (gray/dark gray) in the mockups. Now, it is achieved a nice passage between levels of bars and it seems to be easier to identify a hierarchy of the layout elements (see attachment "levels of bars.png"). 

* Text in left pane should be white to increase the readability.

*
> Yes, I propose #b2f2ff like the sent icon and the folder icon
Good idea :)

* About the image – currently, Thunderbird's logo is available to download from the web only in medium resolution (261x287). It may be enough, but if you have an access to version of the higher resolution, it would be better for sure.
Additionally, I used a graphically simplified logo that I found Wikipedia. It is not directly connected with TB branding, but a higher resolution was the only argument to use this version in the redesign.

Attaching both versions of the logo. Anyway, I would give a go for the original one.

Source of the simplified version (.svg and .png files)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Thunderbird-logo.png

* I'll send missing icons tomorrow
Posted image original-logo.png
Posted image levels of bars.png
(Assignee)

Comment 36

2 years ago
(In reply to krystian.polanski from comment #31)
> 
> * Text in left pane should be white to increase the readability.

I reduced the text color a bit to make unread (not new messages) together with the bolding a bit brighter.

> > Yes, I propose #b2f2ff like the sent icon and the folder icon
> Good idea :)

Okay

> * About the image – currently, Thunderbird's logo is available to download
> from the web only in medium resolution (261x287). It may be enough, but if
> you have an access to version of the higher resolution, it would be better
> for sure.
> Additionally, I used a graphically simplified logo that I found Wikipedia.
> It is not directly connected with TB branding, but a higher resolution was
> the only argument to use this version in the redesign.

I need to look if I can reduce the opacity when attaching as background image.

> Attaching both versions of the logo. Anyway, I would give a go for the
> original one.
> 
> Source of the simplified version (.svg and .png files)
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Thunderbird-logo.png
> 
> * I'll send missing icons tomorrow

Thank you. When you are on it, could you add for the RSS icon also a icon to show when the feed is checked (we now use a icon which shows a orange clock) and one when something failed like error in connection (we now use a warning sign).
Sending missing icons that Richard asked for. Will be able to deliver 'corrupted connection' icon later.
(Assignee)

Comment 38

2 years ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
Instead of a patch I created a theme add-on. Like this it's easier to test, also with TB 52 (I only tested it on Daily).

In folder pane still the "Archive" and "Outbox" icons are missing. I added the default toolbar buttons which are available. Instead of the white bacjground for the toolbar I used a light grey and a lighter grey for the QFB toolbar.
Hey Richard,

thank you! This is lovely. I can install this on my TB 52, and it works nicely. This means I can use it immediately on my main TB. Thanks!

> Instead of the white bacjground for the toolbar I used a light grey and a lighter grey for the QFB toolbar.

Could you please make one where:
* The toolbars (main toolbar, selected tab, quicksearch) are all white background
* The message list has white background, black font, and
  the selected message background has the same color as the menu bar
?

I feel the white is a very important part of why the new design looks fresh. With the grey toolbar, it looks so 1990s. This may be accentuated by the fact that my message list is white, so the grey toolbar looks particularly out of place. This may be a system color, so maybe it looks better on your system.
(In reply to krystian.polanski from comment #31)
> * About the image – currently, Thunderbird's logo is available to download
> from the web only in medium resolution (261x287). It may be enough, but if
> you have an access to version of the higher resolution, it would be better
> for sure.

Hi,

https://assets.mozilla.org/portal/assets/#asset/273

Comment 41

2 years ago
Comment on attachment 8858675 [details]
Monterail.xpi

That clashes 100% with my userChrome.css where I define "zebra striping".
(Assignee)

Comment 42

2 years ago
This can be expected as both want to style the treechildren. And zebra striping on this background looks not so good.
(Assignee)

Comment 43

2 years ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (white) (obsolete) —
The toolbars are white now, also the message header toolbar. I added a shadow to the QFB toolbar to separate it a bit from the main toolbar. And the treeitems in the thread pane use the titlebar colors.
Hey Richard,

thank you so much for doing this! This looks great now. This is really usable, I'm going to keep this for my main Thunderbird.

For me, this is ready to go.

Jörg K wrote:
> That clashes 100% with my userChrome.css where I define "zebra striping".

Yes, that is to be expected, given that userChrome.css applies *on top of* a given theme.

Comment 45

2 years ago
I still don't understand why this is being treated a such a big deal. It is just a new Theme. Themes are fine, but why all the hubbub? That is all it is.
(Assignee)

Comment 46

2 years ago
Ben, it's far away from ready to ship. We need a lot of toolbar icons to fit the default ones we have now. Also should they all be designed in the same dimensions to fit (I made some tweaks to better fit). Also the other windows (AB, Composer etc.) need the same styles.

It needs also thinking about how this will be introduced. For example to begin for new users only as default (they are maybe the most influenced by web mailers) and for existing users only as option (the majority of them wants no change and a good integration into their OS.

Comment 47

2 years ago
More screenshots please?

I like my TB the way it is, please treat this as any other nomination for a new default Theme for TB would be treated.
(Assignee)

Comment 48

2 years ago
Charles, try the XPI. It makes no harm, only when you have userChrome.css tweaks it can interfere visually with them. But going back to default theme restores your actual appearance.

Comment 49

2 years ago
I think anyone wanting to push default theme changes should be providing screenshots at a minimum for those who have no desire to make any changes to their systems, but want to at least see what is being pushed as change, so they can voice their opinion (in support, or against).

As I said, I have no desire to change my systems, so don't really care to see these changes - especially if they resemble the earlier screenshots, which I did not like.
Charles wrote:
> It is just a new Theme.

Yes, it is a new theme. It's "just" style. Exactly.

Richard wrote:
> For example to begin for new users only as default and for existing users only as option

That would be a good introduction. But do we have that option? Are we in a technical position, in terms of work involved, to maintain 2 themes?

If we can do that, yes, I'd prefer to leave users both options.

Comment 51

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #50)

> Richard wrote:
>> For example to begin for new users only as default and for existing users only as option

> That would be a good introduction. But do we have that option? Are we in a
> technical position, in terms of work involved, to maintain 2 themes?
> 
> If we can do that, yes, I'd prefer to leave users both options.

Ahem... Ben, if, as you said when suggesting I install the xpi, all it is is a new theme, then why would it be no less than trivial to provide both?

And I suggest to you that changing the default theme, especially for existing users, should have a much, much higher bar to overcome than just a couple of peoples opinions in an obscure bug, even if one of them is a new Council member.
(Assignee)

Comment 52

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #50)
> 
> That would be a good introduction. But do we have that option? Are we in a
> technical position, in terms of work involved, to maintain 2 themes?

This theme is not a full theme. It's more a lightweight full theme. It extends the default theme and changes only parts which should look different. If we'd have a full set of toolbar icons, including Lightning, we could use the icons also on default theme and change the colors depending the OS and theme and this would make things simpler. Like this, two themes should be good maintainable. I'm maintaining already three themes (Linux, macOS and Windows) and my own themes and lightweight full themes. ;)

> If we can do that, yes, I'd prefer to leave users both options.

Me too.
> This theme is not a full theme. It's more a lightweight full theme. It extends the default theme and
> changes only parts which should look different.

Ah, that's great! I didn't know we had that possibility. It used to be that themes completely replaced the default theme, thus had to copy everything from there, and had to be kept up to date with every single change in the default theme. I'm glad this possibility now exists.

So, let's do that, as you proposed. Roll this out for new users, and let's keep existing users on the old theme for now, and allow both groups to switch to which one they prefer.

> we could use the icons also on default theme and change the colors depending the OS and theme

Can we change the colors of the icons? The folder pane icons have a pastel blue/green, which doesn't look good. If we can change that color, that would be nice.

> We need a lot of toolbar icons to fit the default ones we have now.

Do you need any more artwork from Monterail? If so, just ask them, please.
(Assignee)

Comment 54

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #53)
> > we could use the icons also on default theme and change the colors depending the OS and theme
> 
> Can we change the colors of the icons? The folder pane icons have a pastel
> blue/green, which doesn't look good. If we can change that color, that would
> be nice.

This is what I'm doing already on the tab icons when the tab selected an not selected. Unfortunately this doesn't work in the tree as is has a lot of such restrictions, especially with SVG.

> > We need a lot of toolbar icons to fit the default ones we have now.
> 
> Do you need any more artwork from Monterail? If so, just ask them, please.

Krystian, could you create two icons for the folder pane? Archive and Outbox, both 14px * 14px. And are you willing to create around 25 icons for the toolbars? I'll provide then a list of them.

Comment 55

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #53)
> So, let's do that, as you proposed. Roll this out for new users, and let's
> keep existing users on the old theme for now, and allow both groups to
> switch to which one they prefer.

Whoah, whoah, whoah! Hang on there pardner...

What in tarnation is going on here? How does this go from a simple bug discussing potential minor UI tweaks, to 'the new Default Theme', when the developer himself said not 3 HOURS ago:

(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #46)
> Ben, it's far away from ready to ship.

Ben, are you the new UI overlord? Who gave you such unilateral authority of something with such far reaching effect?

I'm very, VERY concerned right now about what is going on here. If you can take such liberties with the Default Theme, what other decisions are going to be undertaken with ZERO discussion or feedback or accountability from the established User Base?
In general, I'm liking the non-white version, testing it in Daily on Ubuntu 16.04.

I did have to edit my userChrome.css to comment out my Folder Pane background and add my Thread Pane background.

A Templates folder icon is also missing from the Folder Pane.

Need to test it in my Thunderbird's on Windows 10.

Comment 57

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #44)
> > That clashes 100% with my userChrome.css where I define "zebra striping".
> Yes, that is to be expected, given that userChrome.css applies *on top of* a
> given theme.
Looks nice when used without userChrome.css, even I could get used to it ;-)
However, I need my zebra-striping. Can that be restricted to the tree view in the tread pane? Or maybe integrate that into the theme. The design proposal here had thin lines between items in the thread pane, see attachment 8825841 [details].
(Assignee)

Comment 58

2 years ago
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+2) from comment #57)
> Looks nice when used without userChrome.css, even I could get used to it ;-)
> However, I need my zebra-striping. Can that be restricted to the tree view
> in the tread pane? Or maybe integrate that into the theme. The design
> proposal here had thin lines between items in the thread pane, see
> attachment 8825841 [details].

Add #threadTree > before the treechildren, also: #threadTree > treechildren...

With #threadTree > treechildren::-moz-tree-row { border-bottom-color: #b2f2ff; } you get the lines between the items.
(Reporter)

Comment 59

2 years ago
(In reply to Charles from comment #55)
> I'm very, VERY concerned right now about what is going on here. 

Discussing default themes is indeed a bit premature. The usual way these things go (as with add-ons) is the theme (or add-on) is published on amo so people can try it out. If it turns out to be a huge success the discussion can go from there.

Comment 60

2 years ago
Thanks Jorg...

With that out of the way...

I went back and reviewed the tb-planning thread about this at the end of the year last year, and lookd at the mockup more closely. When I have more time, I'll install the XPI in a test profile and check it out, but I have two questions...

1. Is the 'Conversation View' mode optional? In the comments of the blog post it didn't appear to be, and this is a deal breaker for me.

2. Is the Quickfilter Toolbar modified somehow? Or is that a new Search Widget?

More comments to follow my testing...

Comment 61

2 years ago
(In reply to Charles from comment #60)
> Thanks Jorg...

Sorry, I meant Magnus...

Comment 62

2 years ago
Icons not showing for: Email accounts, Templates, Archives, All Mail, Local Folders, Outbox

Comment 63

2 years ago
The highlighting of an email does not extend to the highlighting of a contact in the CardBook add-on.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/cardbook/

The contacts in the CardBook add-on show the default Thunderbird green highlighting, not the blue highlighting in Monterial.

The CardBook add-on does not highlight a contact when the mouse is hovering above it either.

The CardBook developer has written that he plans his add-on be the Contacts twin to the Lightning Calendar add-on so it would seem appropriate that the Monterial UI would provide a consistent feel in CardBook.

Thank you

Comment 64

2 years ago
(In reply to ovari21 from comment #63)
Right now, the CardBook add-on is an add-on and it's the author's responsibility to make any style changes. What happens to the add-on in the future is not known so far, also see bug 1336357 comment #11 (quote):
  this addon shows no sign of being on a path to replacing the default address book in Thunderbird
When testing Monterail.xpi (white) brightness of folder pane background changes when TB isn't in focus.
For example, when I compose new message or open new app but still can see TB in background.

Win 8.1 64bit, TB 52.0.1
(Assignee)

Comment 66

2 years ago
(In reply to ovari21 from comment #62)
> Icons not showing for: Email accounts, Templates, Archives, All Mail, Local
> Folders, Outbox

The servers are by design without icons. Archive, Template and Outbox are known. I'm waiting to Krystian for this icons.

(In reply to Mihovil Stanic [:Mikeyy - L10n HR] from comment #65)
> When testing Monterail.xpi (white) brightness of folder pane background
> changes when TB isn't in focus.
> For example, when I compose new message or open new app but still can see TB
> in background.

This was requested in comment 25. Also the toolbar buttons are lighter when the window is inactive.

Comment 67

2 years ago
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+2) from comment #64)
> also see bug 1336357 comment #11 (quote):
> this addon shows no sign of being on a path to replacing the default
> address book in Thunderbird

This was addressed in the last few days by the Addon author who has already relicensed the code to MPL. His comment was apparently (as I read it) not an expression of his desire not to have it incorporated, but that he didn't think there was a desire on the part of Mozilla to incorporate it.

Comment 68

2 years ago
(In reply to Charles from comment #67)
> This was addressed in the last few days by the Addon author who has already
> relicensed the code to MPL.
Bug 1336357 comment #11 also mentions technical issues. They aren't fixed by changing a license. The whole point here is that CardBook is an add-on with a hopefully bright future, and that the TB maintainers are not updating its theming.
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #54)
> (In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #53)
> > > we could use the icons also on default theme and change the colors depending the OS and theme
> > 
> > Can we change the colors of the icons? The folder pane icons have a pastel
> > blue/green, which doesn't look good. If we can change that color, that would
> > be nice.
> 
> This is what I'm doing already on the tab icons when the tab selected an not
> selected. Unfortunately this doesn't work in the tree as is has a lot of
> such restrictions, especially with SVG.
> 
> > > We need a lot of toolbar icons to fit the default ones we have now.
> > 
> > Do you need any more artwork from Monterail? If so, just ask them, please.
> 
> Krystian, could you create two icons for the folder pane? Archive and
> Outbox, both 14px * 14px. And are you willing to create around 25 icons for
> the toolbars? I'll provide then a list of them.

Richard, sending requested icons in SVG. Additionally, added new "Inbox" icon to match properly "Outbox" one.

Also, I'm ok with providing all needed icons. If you have any source of currently used icons in thunderbird, it would be easier for me to create new ones.
^ Also added a less saturated "Folder" icon to make it look a little calmer. Couldn't answer you sooner due to intensive work.
> If Thunderbird looked like [this] would there be any question on whether Ubuntu should drop it from the default install?
> I think not.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/stunning-thunderbird-redesign-mockup
Maybe update info can be added to the xpi, because it isn't available on amo?
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Add-ons/Add-on_Manager/UpdateInfo

Comment 73

2 years ago
this theme does not apply correctly on CardBook because of these lines :

treechildren::-moz-tree-image {
width: 14px !important;
-moz-image-region: rect(0px 12px 12px 0px) !important;
}

I guess this adds a blank in front of cells even if the cells are of type checkbox... I think this should not apply if cells are of types checkbox...
(Assignee)

Comment 74

2 years ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
This is the theme add-on with all available icons. Fixed some issues on TB 52 which now looks like on 55.

Still need more toolbar icons and styling of the other windows (AB, composer etc.).

Philippe, with the add-on CardBook should be no more affected.
Attachment #8858675 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #8858765 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 75

2 years ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #74)
> Still need more toolbar icons and styling of the other windows (AB, composer etc.).

Will the icons in the Menu Bar (File, Edit, View, Go, Message, Tools, Help) be updated to be consistent with the Monterail theme?

For example, the “Saved Search” icon in the Menu Bar (File → New → Saved Search…) has the former orange icon while the icon in the Folder Pane has your updated Monterail graphic?

Thank you
@Richard: could you please include the correct Thunderbird logo for the left pane in the next version (see comment 40)? I don't think we really want the Thunderbird 2 (!) logo in the new theme. Thanks! ;)

Comment 77

2 years ago
 1. Will “user-config.css”:
(a) Have an option “Show Thunderbird logo” in the bottom of the Folder Pane. This would enable/disable the logo to be shown.
 i. Your mock-up does not have the Thunderbird logo.
 ii. Having the Thunderbird logo in the Folder Pane may make it hard to read for people with sight problems.
(b) Have an option to change the Thunderbird logo in the bottom of the Folder Pane? Use case would be Gmail webmail where business can change the Gmail logo to tailor the mail client to their business.

 2. Would installing the Monterail theme, set to default:
(a) Vertical View Layout? (like your mock-ups)
(b) Enable the Menu Bar?
(c) Enable Contacts Sidebar F9 when composing (and replying to, etc) messages

Thank you
ovari: Thanks for your comments. But please consider:
* This bug is only about the theme and should not change window layout or functionality.
* user-chrome.css is a custom modification. Ditto compatibility with other addons. These are valid points, but not here and not at this stage. Some of these have to be fixed by the author of the customization and addon. That needs to be sorted out later, not now.

Comment 79

2 years ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #38)
> Created attachment 8858675 [details]
> Monterail.xpi
> 
> Instead of a patch I created a theme add-on. Like this it's easier to test,
> also with TB 52 (I only tested it on Daily).

Thanks. I appreciate that this is WIP, but you might want to look again at some of your coding? - 
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=14747214#p14747214

Comment 80

2 years ago
I have noticed that there has been absolutely no mention of https://github.com/spymastermatt/thunderbird-monterail

It is already pretty much complete, and most of the bugs have been fixed.  It would probably make more sense to base the theme of of this, to avoid duplicating work.
Qwerty, spymaster has started his work after we started here, as you can see from the time stamps (here: March 21, there: April 26). If there was unnecessary duplication of work, it was from his side. I was also quite surprised to see that.

FWIW, the work by Richard Marti has been ongoing, despite the lack of comments here. His theme is fairly complete, and works well. I use it for my everyday work, with pleasure.
Posted file Monterail-2017-08-01.xpi (obsolete) —
PI that Richard Marti sent me on Aug 1.
Fairly complete and entirely workable.

Comment 83

2 years ago
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #82)
> Created attachment 8905130 [details]
> Monterail-2017-08-01.xpi

Unfortunately, when installing your attachment, Thunderbird says "Monterail could not be installed because it is not compatible with Thunderbird 56.0."

Comment 84

2 years ago
> (In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #82)
> Created attachment 8905130 [details]
> Monterail-2017-08-01.xpi

Unfortunately, when installing your attachment, Thunderbird says "Monterail could not be installed because it is not compatible with Thunderbird 56.0."

Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit
Thunderbird 56.0b4 (64-bit)
Also not compatible with Daily 57.0a1 on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS.

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/57.0a1Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/57.0a1 BuildID: 20170906030206
(Assignee)

Comment 86

2 years ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
This one should work.
Attachment #8863024 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #8905130 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 87

2 years ago
Posted image LM18.2C64 TB56.0b4 Monterail.png (obsolete) —
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #86)
> Created attachment 8905360 [details]
> Monterail.xpi
> 
> This one should work.

Does not seem to do anything except make the tabs look a bit strange on:
Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit
Thunderbird 56.0b4 (64-bit)

Attached screenshot has the same looking button as before Monterail was applied. Is this the desired behaviour?

All add-on had been disabled too.

Thank you
(Assignee)

Comment 88

2 years ago
56 beta needs a second install to work. I don't know why, 52 and 57 don't have this issue.

Comment 89

2 years ago
Comment on attachment 8905417 [details]
LM18.2C64 TB56.0b4 Monterail.png

(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #88)
> 56 beta needs a second install to work. I don't know why, 52 and 57 don't
> have this issue.

Works. Thank you for the advise Richard.

The icons next to the items in the Menu Bar and in the AppMenu no longer show. Will this be fixed?

Thank you once again.
Attachment #8905417 - Attachment is obsolete: true
(Assignee)

Comment 90

2 years ago
I removed them because a mix of system- and theme icons looked not so consistent. Mac and Windows also don't had this icons.

Comment 91

2 years ago
Hello Richard,

The CardBook Toolbar uses the default Thunderbird icons. However, once Monterail is installed, CardBook still uses the default Thunderbird icons. How can CardBook also automatically use the Monterail theme?

https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/cardbook/

Thank you
(Assignee)

Comment 92

2 years ago
First, it's not a good idea when a extension uses images directly from a theme. The resources can change (3rd party themes can use totally different names). And for example the icons used for Win 10 are wrong and the print icon can't be recognized as a printer.

To work correctly, this would need to be made in the theme. Maybe later.

Comment 93

2 years ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #92)
> First, it's not a good idea when a extension uses images directly from a
> theme. The resources can change (3rd party themes can use totally different
> names). And for example the icons used for Win 10 are wrong and the print
> icon can't be recognized as a printer.
> 
> To work correctly, this would need to be made in the theme. Maybe later.

Please enable the Monterail theme to work for CardBook add-on just like your Monterail theme has changed the icons for the Lightning add-on. For example the 'Delete' button in Tasks and Calendar has changed once Monterail is installed.

If later, what time frame would it be?

Thank you
(Assignee)

Comment 94

a year ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
Latest, almost finished, version, compatible with TB 59.0a1.
Attachment #8905360 - Attachment is obsolete: true
(Assignee)

Comment 95

a year ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
This should be the final version. When where is nothing negative, I'll upload it in a few days to AMO.

After a proposal from Monterail's Krystian Polański, I'm using now a different icon for the hamburger button. Not yet as SVG, but this could be fixed later as maintenance work.
Attachment #8929187 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Hello Richard,
thanks for your great work on this. I've installed the latest version.

I think it's great how you used the Thunderbird logo as menu icon. It's logical, because this is how we access most Thunderbird features.

I'm using the theme since 3 months for my daily work, and it's working well and it's a pleasure to use.

There's only one thing that's been a problem in practice. I'll post a bug report as the next comment.
Reproduction:
1. In thread pane (message list), select a range of messages using mouse click, holding SHIFT key, and clicking the end of the range.
2. Unselect a few messages my holding CTRL key and clicking those that you want to exclude.
3. Move the mouse away. (But do not click anywhere.)
(There are other ways to run into the problem.)

Actual result:
The selected messages and the message you just unselected both have the same background color. The only difference is that selected messages have white foreground, and the unselected one has black foreground. The latter appears selected, due to the background.

Expected result:
The unselected message has a white background.
(Assignee)

Comment 98

a year ago
Posted file Monterail.xpi (obsolete) —
Thank you for the feedback.

Fixed the tree selection. The treeitem colors are now consistent through platforms.
Attachment #8929841 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 99

a year ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #95)
Installed on Monterail and nothing changed.
Thunderbird 57.0b2 (64-bit)
Linux Mint 18.3 Cinnamon

Do you have any suggestions?

Thank you
(Assignee)

Comment 100

a year ago
Install it again. Somehow on newer TB versions it doesn't apply on the first time. Maybe because of the FX removal work of the legacy extensions.

Comment 101

a year ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #100)
> Install it again. Somehow on newer TB versions it doesn't apply on the first
> time. Maybe because of the FX removal work of the legacy extensions.

1. Thank you Richard Marti, your suggestion did the trick. Can you make your theme work without the trick?

2. Seems to breaks CompactHeader add-on:
a) Display two lines in compact view
b) Darken head if message pane has focus
c) Others may be broken too
https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/compactheader/

3. Seems your theme does not yet extended to the CardBook add-on:
https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/cardbook/

4. Seems your theme does not yet extend to the Mail Redirect add-on:
https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/mailredirect/

When would you be able to implement the points above?

Thank you
(Assignee)

Comment 102

a year ago
Óvári, 1 isn't possible for a theme to fix this. 2-4 I can't support all 3rd party extensions. Let's see first how's the usage count of this theme.

Comment 103

a year ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #102)
> Óvári, 1 isn't possible for a theme to fix this. 2-4 I can't support all 3rd
> party extensions. Let's see first how's the usage count of this theme.

1 okay. 2-4 are all featured add-ons with growing or high count. Understood that any more time allocated to your theme will depend on usage count. Thank you

Comment 104

a year ago
I get these warnings when using the latest version in TB59:
20:44:36.156 Cannot register non-chrome://.../skin/ URIs 'chrome://global/locale/netError.dtd' and 'chrome://messenger/locale/netError.dtd' as overrides and/or to be overridden from a skin manifest. 1 chrome.manifest:89
20:44:36.156 Cannot register non-chrome://.../skin/ URIs 'chrome://mozapps/locale/downloads/settingsChange.dtd' and 'chrome://messenger/locale/downloads/settingsChange.dtd' as overrides and/or to be overridden from a skin manifest. 1 chrome.manifest:91

Thanks for replacing the scary "Windows 8" reference from the theme description. Now it is: "Monterail TB theme with official icons from Moterail", with typo in last word.

The simplified TB icon is ugly, even more than the ugly icon of FF57.

And hamburger replaced with the TB icon? The horror :-P

The background image of Thunderbird behind the folder pane (official blue TB image) does not match the one in "About Daily" dialog (the Daily egg icon). Is that a problem?
(Assignee)

Comment 105

a year ago
I uploaded it to AMO. But it's listed for me under Firefox and when I want to access the page I have when I was logged in, it says page not found. Let's see what happens and if they want to review it...if not we have to wait until TB's AMO is ready.
Richard, you can ask Philipp. He's in the Firefox AMO team, so he'll know what to do.
(Assignee)

Comment 107

a year ago
This is the XPI I uploaded to AMO. Fixed are the errors, aceman noted.

No change of the simplified icons as they are from Monterail.
Attachment #8929860 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Hey! I'm personally happy that things went forward.
:aceman: well, you might don't like the simplified versions of the logo, and I totally respect it. The thing is that we have to try new ideas and check how is it working for the broader audience. 
Richard, Ben, do you know what is the current plan and what are the next steps for Thunderbird redesign?
Richard, forgot to mention that it is really cool that you did the job. I'm happy that there is something new and we should gather some feedback from current and past users.
Do you have any ideas how we could do this?
Maybe a discussion group on bugzilla or/and facebook group? There we could make it possible to download this new layout and receive some feedback.

[ why there is no option to edit or remove posts? Sorry for double posting ]
(Assignee)

Comment 110

a year ago
I hope the Add-on is reviewed soon and then you could announce it in your blog like you did at the beginning. I'll keep you updated in this bug.
(Assignee)

Comment 111

a year ago
You can find it here: https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/monterail/

Additional comment/description proposals on this page are welcome.
Wow, awesome! Thank you Richard again :)
Keeping crossed fingers and waiting for further updates.
(Assignee)

Comment 113

a year ago
The theme is approved now and can be found at https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/monterail

Comment 114

a year ago
Hey Richard, I can blog about this. Also, if Krystian blogs about it on their end - I can share that out on all channels (and talk about it in upcoming interviews with journalists and podcasters). Krystian I'd love to talk more about highlighting you guys, hit me up at ryan@thunderbird.net

Comment 115

10 months ago
Not sure where i should report my request, please forgive me if this is not the good place…
Would you consider supporting thunderbird nightly?
Also, it does not seem to be an url to sources on the AMO page…
(Assignee)

Comment 116

10 months ago
Mozilla removed the code to support the old themes. Tb can't use them anymore. I hope Mozilla will expand the functionality of the webextension themes, then we can try to implement it as webextension theme. Fortunately we have around one year until the next official TB version (67) will be released that doesn't support full themes..

Comment 117

7 months ago
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #116)
> Mozilla removed the code to support the old themes. Tb can't use them
> anymore. I hope Mozilla will expand the functionality of the webextension
> themes, then we can try to implement it as webextension theme. Fortunately
> we have around one year until the next official TB version (67) will be
> released that doesn't support full themes..

Hello Richard,

I would just like to provide some feedback regarding Monterail on the release version of Thunderbird 60.
Currently, when Thunderbird is maximized in full screen, the tab bar cuts of the active tab highlight and the minimize, maximize and close buttons.
It seems there's some minor misplacement in that case.

I can't seem to find a way to attach an image showing the problem unfortunately.

Comment 118

7 months ago
Posted image Thunderbird.png (obsolete) —
Nevermind. Found out how to attach an image.
(Assignee)

Comment 119

7 months ago
(In reply to Pedro R from comment #117)
> I would just like to provide some feedback regarding Monterail on the
> release version of Thunderbird 60.
> Currently, when Thunderbird is maximized in full screen, the tab bar cuts of
> the active tab highlight and the minimize, maximize and close buttons.
> It seems there's some minor misplacement in that case.

Thank you for the feedback. I have a fixed version for the buttons. But I see no problem with the tab-line. I also made it a bit lighter in the new version. Soon I'll upload it to ATN (addons.thunderbird.net).

Comment 120

7 months ago
The tab-line (similar to the one in the Firefox tabs) also gets cropped out because it seems the whole bar is misaligned a few pixels upward...
Therefore the blue line on top is barely noticeable. Since I love that little design touch of the Photon UI, and I think it integrates nicely with your theme I would like to see it. Glad to know you have an update coming soon. :)

By the way, how can I delete the attachment that I added to this bug? I made a mistake and uploaded the version where I didn't hide contacts nor anything and wanted to delete the attachment... :/
(Assignee)

Comment 121

7 months ago
Comment on attachment 8998263 [details]
Thunderbird.png

It can't be deleted but I've set the obsolete switch. With this it's no more directly visible.
Attachment #8998263 - Attachment is obsolete: true

Comment 122

7 months ago
Posted image Thunderbird_2.PNG
Thanks so much Richard!!!

By the way, if I snap Thunderbird to one of the sides of the screen, it gets aligned properly!

I took these screenshots because you can see the difference in the active tab. as well.

Updated

7 months ago
Severity: normal → enhancement
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