1396216 - "What's new" in about dialog feels wrong when a manual update search indicates you can update to a different version (shows release notes for existing install instead of update)

Status: UNCONFIRMED

(Firefox :: General, defect, P3)

Description

[AjvarXX]

Attachment: Безымянный.png

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/54.0
Build ID: 20170628075643

Steps to reproduce:

- Firefox without automatic updates
- open About Firefox
- click Check Updates


Actual results:

When new update is found button "What's new" is still linked to the Release version of currently installed FF.


Expected results:

With new update being found the link of "What's new" should have been updated to represent Release Notes of that new update. So that user would read what's new and decided if he wants to update or not.

Seriously, in 2004 I would call it a feature request but in 2017 it is a bummer having to manually switch numbers in URL bar page of the opened old version Release Notes page.

Comment 1

[YF (Yang)]

I think this may be reasonable, the version field is not updated while not updated.

Comment 2

[YF (Yang)]

Also, you cannot cancel an update from the interface, so showing the "What's new" is not very useful.


In my opinion, it should be a "Release Notes" replace the "What's new", and provide the "What's new" for update found or applied, as well as a cancel update button (possibly).

Comment 3

[AjvarXX]

Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to suggest but was afraid it would be too much work: rename to Release Notes and offering What's new button if update found.

Comment 4

[Dan Pernokis]

I discussed this concept and made some suggestions two years ago in Bug 1047395 (see below).  The discussion was moved to Bug 1282231, which quickly went off the rails and was terminated as WONT FIX.  Glad to see it reactivated, with the same problems and justifications for a fix.  (The problem stems from the drive to remove Release Notes from the HELP menu without appreciating the downside.  Thunderbird had it right, Firefox didn't -- then messed it up.)


>> My Comment #16 in Bug 1047395:

After fixing a minor glitch in the Thunderbird RELEASE NOTES item (which IS located under the HELP menu), I made mention of the need for the same in Firefox.  Sylvestre pointed me to this bug and suggested we move the discussion here.  See Bug 1209959 Comment 15 onwards for context.

There is definitely a need to have release notes in FF.  As stated above, they are not easy to find on the website.  TB's direct access from HELP is great (I use it regularly), and TB's display format is fully acceptable imo.  I long for the same functionality in FF.

As for location:
(1)  HELP is a good (standard) place for it:  TB puts it there, ABOUT is there (Windows standard, I believe), it is actually help-type info, etc.
(2)  Great idea to have it on the ABOUT/UPDATE window too, as per John's Comment #8 about point of need.  But it would be needed on both the ABOUT to check current release ("Release Notes") and on the UPDATE panel to check the imminent new version ("What's New").
(3)  Could easily be done in all three locations -- that puts it where expected (under HELP, as usual) and on ABOUT panel ("curious for more since I'm here"), and on UPDATE panel (where needed, "I'm about to do an update - what's new?").

The downside of using the ABOUT/UPDATE area is this:  My updates are manual -- I check for update available, then trigger it if I want to do it.  But I recall changing an option which was the default when installed -- the update is automatic as soon as you check for updates.  So someone just checking current version would automatically jump into (trigger) an update without getting the chance to check current OR new version info.  (As a web developer, I use Google Chrome quite often too -- and it does not even allow checking version number without automatically forcing an update -- don't like this at all.)



>> My Comment #28 in Bug 1047395:

I'm grateful to now have the FF Release Notes available -- thanks, guys -- but there is an oddity:  The phrase "What's New" for the link is no longer a realistic description.  I installed FF 46.0 when first released.  It was no longer "new" quite a while before I installed 47.0, and 47.0 is no longer new to me now either.  

Let me suggest:  
(1) For THIS existing link:  Call it "Release Notes" and go to the current release (as it does now) so everyone can see the notes for their present installation.
(2) When "Check Updates" is clicked:  If an update is available, then have a link pop up that says "What's New" and have it go to the Release Notes for this new about-to-be-installed version.  That way people can check what is about to be installed and perhaps wait or not, depending on urgency.

And of course this ignores the fact that the "automatic update" feature might make waiting impossible, but that's the user's choice. :)  (See my Comment 16 above.)

Comment 5

[Dan Pernokis]

So crash-and-burn again then...

Comment 6

[Dan Pernokis]

More people are starting to notice that the WHAT's NEW link really is the current Release Notes and isn't really new at all, except at the moment of update or installation. Bug #1619815 is a recent example, to which I added my endorsement (pasted below). I suggest that we remove the WONTFIX status from these suggestions and look more realistically at implementation.

--- start paste ---
I couldn't agree more with this idea!

Once upon a time, Thunderbird had it almost right -- they had a RELEASE NOTES heading under HELP, which is where it belongs. This pointed to the Release Notes page for the current version (the page that WHAT's NEW shows today). But the Firefox team decided their own menus should be trimmed down -- and the Thunderbird crew had to follow suit -- so RELEASE NOTES was removed from HELP in TB, and only the WHAT's NEW link in the HELP, ABOUT panel would be the access in both packages. WHAT's NEW would display the release notes for the newly-installed version, with the fallacy being that it would soon become "What's Old" real quick. (Some comments at the time suggested the average user is not interested in Release Notes, etc. Perhaps true, but a sizable number of people need them, and technical people often rely on them enough to make them worthwhile having and to implement them correctly.)

The WHAT's NEW idea only makes sense for a pending or newly-installed version, and I stated so in several previous bugs. Release Notes for current, What's New for the truly new -- simple, straightforward, and accurate.

So here's what I suggest for both Thunderbird and Firefox:

(1) The HELP menu should contain Release Notes for the currently installed version. This would tell the user about their particular installation.
(2) The HELP, ABOUT panel should also & always contain a similar RELEASE NOTES link to the current version.
(3) The HELP, ABOUT panel should contain a WHAT's NEW link only if & when a new release is available (and perhaps even if just pending -- the notes could state the imminent release date).
(4) The HELP menu might also have a link to WHAT's NEW if this can be accomplished without complicated (or error-prone) logic to rebuild the menu if a pending new version is detected.

The trick comes in handling automatic updates. Fully-automatic (as is done in Google Chrome) updates the product at any time without user knowledge or intervention and ALWAYS triggers an immediate update-if-available -- which cannot be overridden -- during a manual check for updates. I don't like this. There should simply be a choice of whether or not to update at the point of checking, even if updates otherwise run automatically and unattended when the user isn't looking. In this way, users can use HELP, ABOUT to check for pending updates but don't have to trigger them. If they have an automatic setting, they will get the update sooner or later anyway, or could get it immediately if they choose. If they don't want the update right now, they could escape. If for any reason they don't want it at all, they could always disable automatic updates now and then manually run the update later at their leisure. Full choice to the user.

And it makes total sense to implement this for both Thunderbird and Firefox (and whatever else Mozilla has in its portfolio).
--- end paste ---

Comment 7

[AjvarXX]

"There should simply be a choice of whether or not to update at the point of checking, even if updates otherwise run automatically and unattended when the user isn't looking. In this way, users can use HELP, ABOUT to check for pending updates but don't have to trigger them. If they have an automatic setting, they will get the update sooner or later anyway, or could get it immediately if they choose. If they don't want the update right now, they could escape."

THIS PLS.

Comment 8

[daylin.trenton]

Firefox has no key to copy link since 88. It was removed and not replaced. This is completely unreasonable.

A replacement key that is unusable by human hands is not a replacement. It's not unlike telling people they can vote, if they stand in line for 8 hours without water. That is telling people that they can't vote.

Telling people that there is a new key, but it's across the room where NO ONE, NO HUMAN HAND can reach, is telling them that there is no key.

Firefox has NO KEY to copy link currently.

There was no reason to break this, and I want you to know that I am never going to stop reporting it, and I will be identifying the people who broke it, like Asif Youssuff, personally, until it is identified as the bug that it is.

You broke a browser that millions of people depended on for NO REASON. NO REASON. There was NO REASON TO REMOVE THE HOTKEY TO COPY LINKS FROM FIREFOX.

Comment 9

[Dan Pernokis]

I agree with Comment 7. At the moment (July-Aug 2021), we're experiencing printing issues with the FF 90.x line. I have my updates fully manual because I want to control if and when updates are applied. I very specifically DO NOT want to update my second machine from FF 89 just because of this. Similarly there was a major screw-up back in FF 37 or so -- again, nice to be able to control if and when updates occur.

It makes sense to know what's there ("Release Notes", which is what they are) and what's coming ("What's New", when it is truly new). In particular, there is occasionally a little subsection headed "Unresolved Issues" -- and it's important to know that the imminent release might break something I currently rely on. This is not rocket science.

(i) Rename the current field to "Release Notes". Leave it in the UPDATE panel and put it back in the HELP/ABOUT menu where it belongs.
(ii) Add WHAT's NEW to both locations when a newer release is detected. (Else remove it from the current release until something new comes along.)
(iii) In all cases let the user have the option of reading What's New before committing to the update.
(iv) DO NOT EVER DO what Google Chrome does, forcing updates without explanation.
(v) And of course retrofit this to Thunderbird, which once-upon-a-time had it almost right but had to follow FF design.