1407074 - [Engagement][email][fr, pl, pt-BR, ru]: series of 4 emails to new subscribers on the Firefox + You mailing list

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: Other, enhancement)

Description

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Hello Piotr,

This is a new email program - a series of FOUR emails that will be sent to every new subscriber to the Firefox & You

*Project*: October emails

*Source*: The copy can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XKpFBlnbCM1iNs2dhsQxumG-RDJaYdUutQ3zAxqoMaE/edit#gid=461304520

*Timeline*:
- Localization:  Mon, Oct 23
- QA/Testing: Weds, Oct 25
- Signoff: Fri, Oct 27

Will let you know once the strings are ready in Pontoon.

Comment 1

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Add French to the request.

Comment 2

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

There is a sentence that I'd like to call out:

"... ensure that the web stays weird, healthy and inviting to all." Here, *weird* means fun, diverse, eccentric, whimsical, magical, outlandish.

The web is a place where you can find videos of cats riding skateboards, blogs about colonizing Mars, and recipes for homemade toothpaste. It's wild and inspiring. You never know what you'll find.

Comment 3

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

+ Konstantin (ru) and Zilmar (pt-BR)

Comment 4

[kirby]

Hi, a correction has been made to the original EN version. 

In Email 3, there is a mistake in this sentence:

"Firefox Focus for Android and iOS *AND* make your digital footprint disappear with a single tap."

The correct version is:

"Firefox Focus for Android and iOS make your digital footprint disappear with a single tap."

Thank you!

Comment 5

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Hello Kirby, 

All the localized emails are in Pontoon now.

You can see all the strings on this page.  Click each new line on the left (the green bullets), you will get the localize content in the large white cell on the right. 

** fr: https://pontoon.mozilla.org/fr/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172568
** pl: https://pontoon.mozilla.org/pl/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172575
** pt-BR: https://pontoon.mozilla.org/pt-BR/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172587
** ru: https://pontoon.mozilla.org/ru/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172568

For future email requests:

Indonesian:
I also have heard back from id community. They would like to go through Pontoon next time you send out email request. We share the same community resource.

German:
I work with Stephan from Oliver Agency. He works in Pontoon for other projects, so the tool or process shouldn't be a blocker for this request.

I don't know what other communities that work on this, but chances are we share the same resource and they are familiar with Pontoon. Let's simplify the process.

Please post your mockups for these fr, pl, pt-BR and ru as soon as you have them for review and signoff.

Thanks,
Peiying

Comment 6

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Any update on this?

Comment 7

[kirby]

Hi! We're tripple-checking our work before the final QA by localizers. Expect mockups for FR today; and PL, PT and RU by tomorrow.

Thank you!

Comment 8

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 1

Comment 9

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 2

Comment 10

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 3

Comment 11

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 4

Comment 12

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Thanks Kirby. 

@Alizee, @Theo, please coordinate the review. Thanks!

Comment 13

[Jessica Osorio [:josorio]]

Hi Peiying & Zilmar,

I just sent the PT-BR proof to our pt l10n proof test list - so Zilmar will see the proofs in his inbox. 

Zilmar, please confirm if everything looks good to go :)

Comment 14

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 1 - NEW

Comment 15

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 1 - NEW

Comment 16

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 2 - NEW

Comment 17

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 3 - NEW

Comment 18

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - FR - Email 4 - NEW

Comment 19

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 1

Comment 20

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 2

Comment 21

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 3

Comment 22

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 4

Comment 23

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - PL - Email 1

Comment 24

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - PL - Email 2

Comment 25

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - PL - Email 3

Comment 26

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - PL - Email 4

Comment 27

[kirby]

Hi! Mockup images attached for FR, RU and PL.

PLEASE NOTE

FR: These are updated images using the correct quotation marks. I marked the old images obsolete. 

PL: Our brand rules require "Firefox" and "Mozilla" to always appear in their English form and not be transliterated. We updated the translation accordingly. Please let us know if any changes to the surrounding copy are needed.

Thanks everyone!

Comment 28

[Zilmar]

(In reply to Jessica Osorio [:josorio] from comment #13)
> Hi Peiying & Zilmar,
> 
> I just sent the PT-BR proof to our pt l10n proof test list - so Zilmar will
> see the proofs in his inbox. 
> 
> Zilmar, please confirm if everything looks good to go :)

Hi Jess!

The proofs look great! I just made a small change in a string in TEST-2. In the "Because you are not a product" paragraph, I changed "Por que você não é um produto" to "Porque você não é um produto".
Other than that, I think it's all ready to go.

Comment 29

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

Declension is NOT translation, transliteration nor changing the word in any sense. “Firefox” and “Firefoksa” is 100% the *same exact* word. Your version of Polish emails is completely ungrammatical, and therefore unusable.

Comment 30

[alizee.aubertin]

There is an issue with all question marks and some exclamation marks, namely NBSPs are missing: for insta"questions?" should be "questions ?" (with a NBSP before the question mark). I just checked Pontoon, everything looks fine there.

Comment 31

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

@Kirby, pls implement changes in comments 28-30.

Comment 32

[Ben Niolet]

Zilmar, 

I sent a new proof of email #2. Let me know if it looks good to go. Thanks!

Comment 33

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program FR - Email 1.png

New version with   before "?"

Comment 34

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program FR - Email 2.png

New version with  

Comment 35

[Zilmar]

Hi Ben! The new proof is great! Ready to go.

Comment 36

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program FR - Email 3.png

New version with  

Comment 37

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program FR - Email 4.png

New version with  

Comment 38

[Ben Niolet]

Thanks, Zilmar!

Comment 39

[Ben Niolet]

Piotr: thanks for the comment. 

I changed "Firefoksa" to "Firefox" and I apologize for introducing errors in grammar. 

We want to use "Firefox" in this email text. Is there a way to adjust the copy to make "Firefox" correct?

Comment 40

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

I’m afraid not. This is how inflected languages work — nouns must be declined.

Comment 41

[Ben Niolet]

Peiying, 

Do you have any guidance on how we should proceed with the PL translation? We're getting told that Firefox is always "Firefox" from a brand standpoint. 

Piotr points out that in PL there's a need to make nouns and verbs agree and says that there is no way around this. 

What advice do you have to resolve this?

Comment 42

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

@Ben, how was it done before? I can't imagine this is the first time we run into this.  I am aware of the Polish case. Here is how the brand is treated: https://transvision.mozfr.org/?recherche=Firefox&repo=mozilla_org&sourcelocale=en-US&locale=pl&search_type=strings_entities. See the different scenarios where Firefox or Firefoksa is used. Go with Piotr's translation for the emails.

Comment 43

[Ben Niolet]

We have a PL speaker in the marketing org. He made a suggestion. What if we did something like this: refer to it as the "Firefox browser" in all references. 

That might look something like this: 

Cześć! Gratulujemy wybrania *przeglądarki* Firefox do podróży w Internecie. Nie wszyscy bohaterowie noszą peleryny — przeglądając z nami, masz bezpośredni wpływ na sprawy kształtujące przyszłość Internetu.

Jak? Mówiąc „my”, myślimy nie tylko o *przeglądarce* Firefox, ale o Mozilla, wspierającej nas organizacji non-profit. Mozilla prowadzi edukację internetową na całym świecie, walczy o Twoje prawa w Internecie i pilnuje korporacji.

Comment 44

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

We do it for strings which require using a fixed entity in Firefox itself. However, it is a limited approach that makes texts, especially more “casual” ones like these, sound awkward and stiff. I’m expecting l20n/Fluent to allow us to define entities for grammar cases and finally, after 15 years, fix Firefox.

I refuse to lower the quality of my translations to satisfy an arbitrary rule which assumes that every language of the world works like English does.

Comment 45

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

> Do you have any guidance on how we should proceed with the PL translation? We're getting told that Firefox is always "Firefox" from a brand standpoint. 

This is not true. I'm working on Firefox localization, especially within the context of declined language like Polish, for almost 17 years now.

We have never ever, and no other localization that uses declension, kept "Firefox" in sentences undeclensed. That would be a mistake.

The use of "product" to avoid declension is grammatically correct, but quite unfortunate and the outcome message looks artificial - as in, no polish speaker would ever say it without an American forcing him to say it that way.
For that reason, in all cases where we are able to declense, we do.

For anyone interested in contributing to polish localization, here is the main terminology:

 - http://attic.aviary.pl/pl.aviary.wiki/Mozilla:S%C5%82ownik.html#Firefox

What's more, we're currently working on removing the limitations on declensing the brand name inside the product to improve the quality of translations.
If any team would like to consider changing out policy on that, I'd recommend communication on this with the L10n-Drivers and  Internationalization teams at Mozilla before they attempt to establish such policies.

Comment 46

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

Hi all,

I got more feedback on the situation. It seems that there's an involvement from the legal team about trademarks and brand names, that makes people more confused about what's ok and what is not.

We're currently declensing the brand name according to the PWN dictionary that set the rules for words like Linux, Cox and Firefox, and that's what we've been doing since the inception of Firefox.

I believe it should be ok to continue doing it, since if we need to change that policy for all slavic localizations, it'll be a greater process involving changing dictionaries and translations across all Firefox products and web assets.
If there's a legal issue here, then I doubt a marketing email should be the first to be affected over, say, mozilla.org website :)

Thus, my recommendation would be to keep this message consistent with www.mozilla.org/pl which does declense, and work between legal, marketing and localizations teams on defining a global policy that we'd apply onto all affected localizations.

Hope that's acceptable.

Comment 47

[Ben Niolet]

Thanks Zibi, Piotr and Peiying. 

Just to re-iterate, we really appreciate the work you do and share the same goal: making the best possible email messages for the PL community. 

I agree that there are some conflicting signals right now and we need to come to a policy that makes sense for our brand and for our PL community. So we will go with the declension version for this email. 

I'll post new proofs here.

Comment 48

[Zibi Braniecki [:zbraniecki][:gandalf]]

Thank you Ben!

> I agree that there are some conflicting signals right now and we need to come to a policy that makes sense for our brand and for our PL community.

We will make sure to follow up with this case as it affects an intersection between all Slavic locales and legal (it's by no means Polish only, it's just that Polish is the biggest market of the affected ones I guess).

I apologize for defensive tone in my first comment.

Comment 49

[Ben Niolet]

Anything I can do to help with the follow-up, just let me know. 

No apologies necessary whatsoever. Thanks again!!

Comment 50

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 1.png

Firefox properly declensed.

Comment 51

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 2.png

Firefox declensed.

Comment 52

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3.png

Firefox declension

Comment 53

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 4.png

Firefox declension

Comment 54

[Ben Niolet]

Peiying, 

With the latest changes to PL we are getting close (hopefully) to being able to close this out. 

We still need some QA on the RU versions. Is there someone we can tag or ask nicely?

Comment 55

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Thank you Ben.  Next time, I will break up the bug by per language so it is a little easier for everyone to find their images to check. Thanks for your patience. I will ping the "ru" localizer. 

@Victor, please review the mockups in ru: comments #18-21

Comment 56

[Victor Bychek]

Hello Ben,

Firstly I've done some small patches, please pull the latest changes from Pontoon
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/ru/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?time=201711071842-201711081842&string=172583

The other thing is that there're errors that not made by me
The first screenshot repeats one string (here's the link https://pontoon.mozilla.org/ru/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172591) two times, also in the second shot in the first link there's symbol which don't exist in original translation (that's the first letter of the link, string can be found here https://pontoon.mozilla.org/ru/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172561)

And hope I'm not moving deadline so much, sorry for delay.

Comment 57

[kirby]

Hi Victor, thank you! No need at all to apologize. You are helping us avoid mistakes! We are making these changes and will post the new mockups for your final approval before the morning.  

Thanks so much!

Comment 58

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

@Ben, French team has confirmed the latest mockups look good.

Comment 59

[Ben Niolet]

Thanks!!

Comment 60

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 1 - NEW

Comment 61

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 2 - NEW

Comment 62

[kirby]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 4 - NEW

Comment 63

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #50)
> Created attachment 8926465 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 1.png
> 
> Firefox properly declensed.

Looks good.

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #51)
> Created attachment 8926466 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 2.png
> 
> Firefox declensed.

It seems that I have made a mistake here. I’m really sorry. The second paragraph should read:

“Kiedy używasz Firefoksa, wspierasz organizację non-profit walczącą o sieciową neutralność, promującą rozsądną reformę unijnego prawa autorskiego, prowadzącą edukację internetową na całym świecie i pilnującą zdrowia Internetu.”

(as in the new version at https://pontoon.mozilla.org/pl/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172569)

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #52)
> Created attachment 8926468 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3.png
> 
> Firefox declension

The second paragraph has a mistake, it should read:

“Teraz możesz przejąć kontrolę. Korzystaj z trybu prywatnego, aby pogonić szpicli. Za pomocą rozszerzeń do Firefoksa chroniących prywatność decyduj, co udostępniać.”

(as in https://pontoon.mozilla.org/pl/engagement/emails/2017/firefoxandyou_oct.lang/?string=172567)

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #53)
> Created attachment 8926469 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 4.png
> 
> Firefox declension

Looks good.


Thank you!

Comment 64

[kirby]

Hi Victor!

I updated the emails with the newest copy from Pontoon, and fixed the two other mistakes. Here are new versions of Emails 1, 2, and 4. (None of the changes impacted Email 3.) Please let us know if these look good now, or if we should make any other changes. 

Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 1 - NEW
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8926589

Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 2 - NEW
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8926591

Global Welcome Program - RU - Email 4 - NEW
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8926593

Thank you!

Comment 65

[Victor Bychek]

Hi Kirby!

Everything looks fine now. Thank you so much!

Comment 66

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 2edit.png

Updated second paragraph.

Comment 67

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3new.png

Updated second paragraph.

Comment 68

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #66)
> Created attachment 8926890 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 2edit.png
> 
> Updated second paragraph.

Looks great, thank you!

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #67)
> Created attachment 8926891 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3new.png
> 
> Updated second paragraph.

This one is the same as the last version.

Comment 69

[Ben Niolet]

Ugh. Sorry about that. Let me try again.

Comment 70

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3new2.png

Hopefully I actually made the change in paragraph two this time.

Comment 71

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

(In reply to Ben Niolet from comment #70)
> Created attachment 8926898 [details]
> Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3new2.png
> 
> Hopefully I actually made the change in paragraph two this time.

You did, but you also added extra quotation marks.

Comment 72

[Ben Niolet]

I sure did. So sorry. Just a sec.

Comment 73

[Ben Niolet]

Attachment: Global Welcome Program PL - Email 3new3.png

Hope I got it this time...

Comment 74

[Piotr Drąg [:piotrdrag]]

Perfect! Thanks!

Comment 75

[Ben Niolet]

Thank you!!!

Comment 76

[Peiying Mo [:CocoMo]]

Thanks EVERYONE for checking, revising, fixing, and verifying! 

@Ben, if you got all you need, please mark the bug fixed.

Comment 77

[Ben Niolet]

Thanks everyone!!