1430549 - Remove about:addons#plugins

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Toolkit :: Add-ons Manager, enhancement)

Description

[Johann Hofmann [:johannh]]

(Feel free to move this to the front-end component, which I guess is Toolkit::Add-ons Manager)

With the removal of NPAPI Plug-ins [0] (also with ESR 60 [1]) the only plug-ins left in about:addons#plugins are EME and Flash.

I don't think there's a reason we still need to show users a list of these on a dedicated page.

AFAICS the only functionality this site provides for EME plugins is disabling them. There is a setting for disabling EME in about:preferences already, so that's just duplicated.

For Flash, you can change away from the default global click-to-play behavior, which doesn't seem to have an equivalent anywhere else.

Flash will be supported until 2019 and until 2020 in ESR [2], so it probably makes sense to replace this functionality.

Philipp, Felipe, do you think it's sufficient to make a small about:preferences entry that changes the default behavior for Flash to be able to remove this page? Or is there anything else I'm missing?

[0] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ 
[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/07/20/reducing-adobe-flash-usage-in-firefox/
[2] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2017/07/25/firefox-roadmap-flash-end-life/

Comment 1

[:Gijs (he/him)]

Chris might also have ideas/opinions about having UI for these items in the add-ons manager.

Comment 2

[Chris Pearce [:cpearce (Not reading bugmail)]]

There's also OpenH264 in about:addons#plugins.

The add-ons manager provides useful other functionality here for OpenH264/WidevineCDM besides enabling/disabling; it tells us what version of OpenH264/WidevineCDM are installed, and provides UI to manually update them (in a context-menu). It also provides a "more info" link for EME plugins which points to the privacy policy for Widevine, which is important, and the licensing info for OpenH264.

I don't care if you want to move this functionality, but it's important we not lose this functionality. It's important to make it clear that WidevineCDM is not something we provide, it's provided by a third party. Ditto for OpenH264.

Comment 3

[(Currently slow to respond) Philipp Sackl [:phlsa] (Firefox UX) please use needinfo]

Right, there's probably a better place for these, most likely in preferences.
NI-ing people from privacy, add-ons and preferences here, since this seems to touch those three areas.

Comment 4

[Johann Hofmann [:johannh]]

(In reply to Chris Pearce (:cpearce) from comment #2)
> There's also OpenH264 in about:addons#plugins.
> 
> The add-ons manager provides useful other functionality here for
> OpenH264/WidevineCDM besides enabling/disabling; it tells us what version of
> OpenH264/WidevineCDM are installed

This is already in about:plugins

> and provides UI to manually update them (in a context-menu).

Given how hidden this feature is, in what real world scenario would a user ever need this? As in, can we either remove this or put it in about:plugins?

> It also provides a "more info" link for EME plugins
> which points to the privacy policy for Widevine, which is important, and the
> licensing info for OpenH264.

We could easily put that into about:plugins.

> I don't care if you want to move this functionality, but it's important we
> not lose this functionality. It's important to make it clear that
> WidevineCDM is not something we provide, it's provided by a third party.
> Ditto for OpenH264.

Important in a legal way? Or why else?

Comment 5

[emanuela [ux]]

In add-ons, we're currently planning to move away from about:addons. It means we're also discussing we're to move Plugins. The current idea is to have it in preferences, under privacy, in a new section after permissions.

> I don't care if you want to move this functionality, but it's important we
> not lose this functionality. It's important to make it clear that
> WidevineCDM is not something we provide, it's provided by a third party.
> Ditto for OpenH264.

I'm also curious to know if this is something we care legally or in what other way. So, more in general, what are the constraints on plugins.


(I'll cc Andy in this bug)

Comment 6

[:Felipe Gomes (needinfo for replies!)]

(In reply to Johann Hofmann [:johannh] from comment #0)
> Philipp, Felipe, do you think it's sufficient to make a small
> about:preferences entry that changes the default behavior for Flash to be
> able to remove this page? Or is there anything else I'm missing?

Yeah I think it makes sense to eventually move Flash to Preferences, although it's not as simple as the click-to-activate dropdown. There are two checkboxes inside the detailed info that would need to be exposed as well: "Enable Adobe Flash protected mode" and "Block dangerous and intrusive Flash content". And if I'm not mistaken, the UI in about:plugins also provide a link to download a new version if there's an update available (or at least in the case of a vulnerable version with an update available).

Comment 7

[Chris Pearce [:cpearce (Not reading bugmail)]]

Adding Henri to CC, in case he's got anything to add on policy, and Nils as the manager in charge of OpenH264 these days...

(In reply to Johann Hofmann [:johannh] from comment #4)
> (In reply to Chris Pearce (:cpearce) from comment #2)
> > There's also OpenH264 in about:addons#plugins.
> > 
> > The add-ons manager provides useful other functionality here for
> > OpenH264/WidevineCDM besides enabling/disabling; it tells us what version of
> > OpenH264/WidevineCDM are installed
> 
> This is already in about:plugins
> 
> > and provides UI to manually update them (in a context-menu).
> 
> Given how hidden this feature is, in what real world scenario would a user
> ever need this? As in, can we either remove this or put it in about:plugins?

We (and a number of SUMO and other help articles) direct users to poll for updates upon occasion when debugging issues likely to be caused by an out-of-date or broken CDM install.

Toggling off then on again would cause an uninstall and then a re-download and reinstall of the latest version, so we could achieve the same result by relying on that functionality.

So we need to at least maintain the disable-and-uninstall/enable-and-install toggle in our UI for each individual plugin.

Having UI for polling for updates is useful for Firefox devs and QA when we're pushing out a new WidevineCDM or OpenH264 update, so maintaining UI for it somewhere (even if it's not linked to by other UI) would be useful.

 
> > It also provides a "more info" link for EME plugins
> > which points to the privacy policy for Widevine, which is important, and the
> > licensing info for OpenH264.
> 
> We could easily put that into about:plugins.
> 
> > I don't care if you want to move this functionality, but it's important we
> > not lose this functionality. It's important to make it clear that
> > WidevineCDM is not something we provide, it's provided by a third party.
> > Ditto for OpenH264.
> 
> Important in a legal way? Or why else?


It's important from a legal perspective; both OpenH264 and WidevineCDM contain patent-licensed H.264 decoders, and we have to be clear that they are downloaded from an external party, and that we don't give the impression that Firefox itself provides this patent-encumbered functionality.

It's also important from a policy perspective; we do not want to give the impression that the functionality provided by the WidevineCDM (DRM video playback) is provided by Firefox. Linking to Widevine's privacy policy is also important to us from a policy perspective, as the CDM is proprietary software in binary form which we install automatically (on Windows and Mac, on Linux we prompt users before installing it). DRM video playback, and auto-installing a binary, have privacy implications, which we need to acknowledge.

Again, I don't care if this functionality is moved to somewhere else, but I think we need to ensure it's discoverable (so tucking it away in about:plugins which isn't linked to by any UI elsewhere won't do), and we still need to provide links to the Widevine privacy policy and OpenH264 license, and enable/disable UI.

If you're looking to remove the add-ons manager UI, I think we should move the functionality for OpenH264 and the WidevineCDM into an about:preferences tab.

Comment 8

[Johann Hofmann [:johannh]]

Ok, great, thank you for the clarifications!

So it seems like we definitely need a little UX input on how to put this into about:preferences. Maybe folks could look at this as part of the "move away from about:addons" project Emanuela mentioned. We should list the requirements that were mentioned in this bug and try to come up with an ideally simple UI for it.

Comment 9

[Tina Hsieh[:Tina_Hsieh] UX]

As Emanuela mentioned, the plan of moving the about:plugins is on project Medley's radar. Privacy & Security in about:preferences is the place we're considering. Feel free to raise any concerns if it doesn't make sense to move it there.

Comment 10

[Henri Sivonen (:hsivonen)]

As Chris said, it's important that we don't distribute OpenH264 or the Widevine CDM to end users. Instead, they are distributed by Cisco and Google, respectively, and Firefox facilitates the download.

Therefore, UI-wise, it's appropriate that we continue to have UI surface that:
 1) Designates OpenH264 and the Widevine CDM as optional components "provided by" the named third parties.
 2) Provides control for the user to enable and disable them.
 3) Shows the relevant legal links. ("License information" for OpenH264 and "Privacy information" for the Widevine CDM.)

I think to emphasize point #1, it makes a lot of sense to have these listed under a "Plug-ins" section in the Add-on Manager, so my preference would be not to try to remove or relocate this UI. I'd be fine with flattening it, though, so that the information that's currently behind the "More" option for each plug-in would be shown in the plug-in listing directly.

I think logically it makes more sense to have these under the Add-on Manager than under Privacy and Security.

> AFAICS the only functionality this site provides for EME plugins is disabling them. There is a setting for disabling EME in about:preferences already, so that's just duplicated.

That's indeed unfortunate from a UI design perspective. The design accounts for a situation where Firefox might support multiple CDMs. We actually had such a situation for a while on Windows. Considering the sensitivities in this area, I would prioritize change avoidance over optimal design, because moving things around risks users thinking that we've removed DRM controls, and we really don't need the drama of anyone claiming that we removed controls (or reset their values to defaults) if we moved them around. The less this area is stirred, the better.

Comment 11

[BMO Automation]

Resolving as wont fix, plugin support deprecated in Firefox 85.

Comment 12

[Gingerbread Man]

(In reply to BMO Automation from comment #11)

Resolving as wont fix, plugin support deprecated in Firefox 85.

Yes, that was the whole reason for this bug report. Peculiar that this fell through the cracks with so many developers involved.

(In reply to Johann Hofmann [:johannh] from comment #0)

AFAICS the only functionality this site provides for EME plugins is disabling them. There is a setting for disabling EME in about:preferences
already, so that's just duplicated.

Flash is long gone, so if the above is accurate, the Plugins section serves no purpose anymore. It certainly doesn't for me, since I use the EME-free version and it's been blank for years now.

Comment 13

[Sören Hentzschel]

Flash is long gone, so if the above is accurate, the Plugins section serves no purpose anymore.

This is not true. There are still Widevine and OpenH264.

Comment 14

[Gingerbread Man]

(In reply to Sören Hentzschel from comment #13)

This is not true. There are still Widevine and OpenH264.

That's what "EME plugins" means in the part of comment 0 that I quoted and you snipped.

Comment 15

[Sören Hentzschel]

I know what "EME plugins" means and I didn't "snipped" anything. Yes, you quoted this sentence but you said the "plugins section serves no purpose anymore" and I answered to that senctence because it's not true. The page about:addons#plugins still gives the users an explanation what Widevine and OpenH264 are - and this could be considered as important for some users because these are third party plugins and many users don't know why they need them. Also the page gives information about the installed version (can be important if there are problems) and the date of the last update. And if you look at the details of OpenH264 you will find a licence link. I am pretty sure there wouldn't be a licence link if Mozilla would not be legally required to link the licence. Please note also that there is a setting in about:preference for disabling EME (that's what Widevine is for) but there is no setting for OpenH264 (OpenH264 is not related to EME but to WebRTC).

I don't say that all these things couldn't be integrated in another way. But that has to happen before about:addons#plugins can be considered to be removed.