1461187 - SeaMonkey Account Wizard does not allow one to specify a SMPT server for a new account, one cannot specify an SMTP server for a new account unless it is one that is already known to the system because it is or was used by an existing account.

Status: NEW

(SeaMonkey :: MailNews: Account Configuration, enhancement)

Description

[Carlyle Moulton]

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.2
Build ID: 20180218124456

Steps to reproduce:

I set up a new mail account with the set up new account wizard. The wizard allowed me to set the POP3 server but told me to use the Mail & Newsgroup Accounts Settings to set the SMTP server.

Most of the time If I access Edit/Mail and News Group Account Settings there are listing for both my existing account cmoulton@.zipworld.com.au and the new account [e-mail] but selecting the server settings entry only allows setting the POP3 server not the SMTP server.

However for a short time on one occasion the server settings of the new account did show a pull down list with 2 entries, Default and The SMTP server for the zipworld A/c. However it did not allow me to overtype the name of that account to make the name of the new server nor was there an ADD button  to add an entry to the list. default entry when it was displayed.

 


Actual results:

As Above.


Expected results:

The New Account Wizard should allow specification of the SMTP server when setting up the new account:

IF NOT

The Edit/Mail & Newsgroup Accounts/Server Setting should ALWAYS provide a functional means to Add or Change the SMTP server not OCCASIONALLY a non functional means.

Comment 1

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Did you try to add an smtp server with the "Manage Identities" dialog in the account setting?

This bug here sounds more like a support problem. Might become a bug or enhancement later but I would suggest asking in the support group mozilla.support.semonkey or in the mozinnaZine forum first.

Comment 2

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

upps mozillaZine forum

Comment 3

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Screenshot from 2018-05-14 00-10-46.png showing no means of setting SMTP server.

Comment 4

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Because you set it in the account settings not in the Server settings. Go one level higher. There you also find the Manage Identities Button for adding new ones.

Comment 5

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

You can also edit the smtp servers in the Outgoing Server (SMTP) dialog at the bottom and then switch to it in the account settings.

Comment 6

[Carlyle Moulton]

Added screenshot of mail and newsgroup account settings page with no provision for setting SMTP server.

Frank-Reiner Grahl. I would try this if I knew how to access manage identities. I take it that it is not part of Seamonkey. If it is part of Windows I am out of luck as I am a Linux user.

I will try asking in mozilla.support.seamonkey.

Thanks for your reply.

Comment 7

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Attachment: Capture.PNG

Just one level higher. Select the name in bold.

Comment 8

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Screenshot from 2018-05-15 20-43-18.png showing account settings screen.

There is a pull down list with 2 entries Default and [e-mail] ........
It only allows me to select one of these two, it does not allow overtyping to edit the name and there is no ADD button to call up an editable field.

Comment 9

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

As I said the smtp servers are managed under manage identities right there in the account settings or under 'Outgoing Server (SMTP)' in the left pane. You can then pick the updated ones in the the list.

Comment 10

[Carlyle Moulton]

Added another screenshot to indicate how Account Setting also does not work.

Frank-Reiner Grahl, thank you for your second comment.

Comment 11

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Comment on attachment 8975781 [details]
Screenshot from 2018-05-15 20-43-18.png showing account settings screen.

wrong screenshot

Comment 12

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

> thank you for your second comment.

Let me know if it is fixed for you now.

Comment 13

[Carlyle Moulton]

Frank not fixed.

This is weird, I remember attaching another screenshot relevant to my comment 11 but the screen shot I attached is of an unrelated news report.

When I try to navigate the seamonkey screen of which I actually wanted to attach a screenshot I cannot find it. Enough for tonight! I will bash myself over the head 10 times with a sledge hammered and go to bed.

Comment 14

[Carlyle Moulton]

Finally have made progress in defining problem.

The New account wizard of 4 screens used to collect all the information needed for a new account. The 4th screen of the wizard used to allow setting of an SMTP server but someone has misguidedly decided to simplify it as being unnecessary as the SMTP server can be set on the mail and newsgroups account settings screen, except that it can't.

At the bottom of the account settings screen is a pull down list of candidates for the SMTP server including all already known SMTP servers and a default server. A pull down list allows one to select any one of the list entries but it does not allow setting a value not in the list such as by overtyping the entry in the setting box.

The needed fix is to correct the wrongful update in the wizard 4th screen and change its function to add the new server to the pull down list. 

I was going to add relevant screen shots but find I no longer know how to do so. I know it is possible because I have done it before but as the bug report is now I cannot find the mechanism for doing so. If someone can refresh my memory I will come back and add them.

Comment 15

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Seamonkey New Account Wizard Page 4.png

These 5 .png files are of the 4 New Account Wizard Pages and The Account wizard screen.

The problem is on page 4 of the New Account Wizard. Basically it says I don't need to do anything because you can do what I was meant to do from the main mail and news account management screen and therefore I will do nothing. 

At the bottom of mail and news group account settings screen there is a pull down list, one can select as SMTP server any entry on the list, but if the server is not on the list, tough cheddar. A pull down list does not allow additions, you cannot edit the setting box the the value that you want, it is read only.

Comment 16

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Attachment: Clipboard.jpg

Sorry I am at a loss here. You can edit the smtp settings under Outgoing server and manage identities as I stated. After you edited them there the listbox will be updated with the entries and you can choose a new or old one as you wish.

Comment 17

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Seamonkey Account Settings.png

In my previous comment I  thought that I was attaching 5 screen images being all 4 pages of the new account wizard and the Seamonkey mail and accounts setting screen but apparently only the last one entered page 4 of the wizard was attached to the comment. 

In any case the first 3 screens of the new account wizard really don't matter, the only relevant images are of the 4th page of the New account wizard attached to the previous comment and that of the mail and news account attached to this one.

Comment 18

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

Yes and where is the problem? You set up the account and then change the smtp server either during account setup or later.

Comment 19

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Seamonkey Mail & News Group Account Settings

Frank, the problem is that the mail and newsgroup account settings screen uses a pull down list to set the SMTP server but if the server is not already in the list you cannot select it. The setting field in a pull down list is read only so you cannot enter a value that is not in the list by overtyping.

Presumably before someone decided to change the wizard page 4 to do nothing except refer to the mail and newsgroup account settings it added the specified server to the list as well as specifying it in the new account being added.

Comment 20

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

If you already added an smtp server before, this one will be used as stated on the wizard page. I doubt this changed recently. As stated you can edit the smtp server later in the account settings.

Adding an additional smtp server during account setup using the wizard would be an enhancement.

Comment 21

[Carlyle Moulton]

"SeaMonkey Account Wizard does not allow to specify an additional smtp server if one already exists" is not a description of the bug", My original description "Seamonkey 2.49.2 Linux fedora 26 setting up new mail account cannot set SMTP server ""was closer".

Comment 22

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

This is not Fedora specific and occurs only in the account wizard. You can always set the smtp server later as stated.

Comment 23

[Carlyle Moulton]

I have speculated as to how this bug came into being, maybe my speculation is incorrect but it is useful for illuminating the cause.

I believe that some time ago someone violated the "if it ain't broke don't fix it rule" "improved" seamonkey by removing what he/she thought was a redundant function in the 4th screen of the new account wizard.  Why have a screen to set the outbound server if it is possible to do the same thing in the Mail and News Group Accounts Screen? Following this logic he/she should have deleted the 4th screen from the wizard but he did not because he thought it was still necessary to remind users where to set the server in the Mail and News groups account screen.

The problem is that this person was WRONG in believing that is possible to set a new server name not currently known to Seamonkey in the Outgoing Server SMTP pull down list. A pull down list allows one to set a variable to any one of the values in the list. If the value one wants is not already in the list one cannot choose it. Perhaps this person thought that one can edit the value in the pull down box, but this is in fact NOT POSSIBLE, the contents of the pull down box cannot be modified.

Comment 24

[Carlyle Moulton]

Re comment 22.

Frank, I know the bug is most likely not Fedora specific, however one reports a bug and the environment in which one has encountered it, in my case X86_64 Fedora Linux 26.

Comment 25

[Carlyle Moulton]

Re comment 22.

Frank

"You can always set the smtp server later as stated."

No you can't.  Do you understand the function of a pull down list? It only allows one to set values already in the list presumably placed there by wizard screen 4 before it had been modified not to work. I have had the same account for many years and it was set up while Sea Monkey's  new account setting mechanism still worked. 

In my case my existing Account is with Pacific Networks and the the server both POP & SMTP is mail.pacific.net.au.
My new account is with Optus and the server both POP & SMTP is mail.optus.com.au. I can set the POP3 server for the new account correctly but the can only choose between Default and mail.pacific.com.au for the new account. mail.optus.com.au is not on the list for the pull down box because the 4th screen of the wizard has had the "redundant" function of setting the SMPE server removed.

Comment 26

[Carlyle Moulton]

Re Comment 9.

Frank.

Manage identities has nothing to do with mail servers unless you mean that button for it is just below the set SMTP server pull down list.

Comment 27

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

> Manage identities has nothing to do with mail servers unless you mean that button for it is just below the set SMTP server pull down list.

Yes I mean this button and also the outgoing servers in the account pane.

Comment 28

[Carlyle Moulton]

Attachment: Seamonkey Mail & Newsgroup Server Settings Screen

Re comment 27.

If you mean the screen invoked by selecting "server settings" in the left pane, it only allows one to specify the inbound POP3 server.

Comment 29

[Carlyle Moulton]

Re comment 27.

If you mean the screen invoked by selecting "server settings" in the left pane, it only allows one to specify the inbound POP3 server.

Comment 30

[Carlyle Moulton]

Frank.

Bug 918552 is uncannily similar but it is 5 years ago.

I get the impression that Seamonkey is no longer a front line product and may not get as much support in fixing bugs as it really needs so a bug from 5 years ago could still be in existence today. Most people faced with the need to set up a new account and with Seamonkey's inability to do so would switch to Thunderbird. 

I have not noticed the bug before since I have not needed a new account before. The existing account was set up when Seamonkey was version 1.xx and running on a version of Windows.

I have changed the bug description back to my original words or nearly so.

Comment 31

[Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg)]

> I have changed the bug description back to my original words or nearly so.

This does not describe the problem. This is not a Fedora or 2.49.2 only problem and not your problem alone. Please do not do this again. The other bug is not identical or it would be a duplicate. A fix for it would just need to cover both bugs.

Comment 32

[Carlyle Moulton]

Re comment 27.

If you mean the screen invoked by selecting "server settings" in the left pane, it only allows one to specify the inbound POP3 server.

Comment 33

[Carlyle Moulton]

(In reply to Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg) from comment #31)
> > I have changed the bug description back to my original words or nearly so.
> 
> This does not describe the problem. This is not a Fedora or 2.49.2 only
> problem and not your problem alone. Please do not do this again. The other
> bug is not identical or it would be a duplicate. A fix for it would just
> need to cover both bugs.

> problem and not your problem alone. Please do not do this again. The other
> bug is not identical or it would be.

"This does not describe the problem. This is not a Fedora or 2.49.2 only problem"

I come from an IBM mainframe system programming environment in which it is normal to specify the exact circumstances in which a problem arises. Some of the circumstances may have no bearing on the problem but one doesn't know that. I consider this a good system to use. If someone else encounters what looks like the same problem they can add to the end of the problem description something like this "Also Seamonkey 2.xx Windows ##".  When searching for IBM PTFs (PTF = Program Temporary Fix") relevant to a problem one gets in the habit of looking at hits which relate to not exactly the same environment, they may be from a similar cause but noone has raised a PTF yet for the problem in the environment in which one has encountered the problem.

"This is not your problem alone"

However I am the person who raised this bug report so the bug description should describe the problem as I saw it. Your substituted text does not do so. The sequence of words "does not allow one to specify an additional  SMPT server if one already exists" is completely wrong unless one replaces "if" with "unless" and removed the word "additional". 

You can substitute "cannot specify an SMPT server for a new account unless it is the same as a server used by an existing account". That is the purpose of the pull down list, it allows accounts to share SMTP servers so the case where the new account needs an SMTP server already known to Seamonkey as it is or was used by another account.

"Please do not do this again".

Please do not do what again? If you mean changing the bug description to a description that is an accurate description of the problem as it was on my system then I consider I have the right to do so.  If you like we can consult on a more appropriate description.  
"

Comment 34

[Carlyle Moulton]

Frank:-

Modified description to merge your version with my version.

Comment 35

[Carlyle Moulton]

(In reply to Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg) from comment #1)
> Did you try to add an smtp server with the "Manage Identities" dialog in the
> account setting?
> 
> This bug here sounds more like a support problem. Might become a bug or
> enhancement later but I would suggest asking in the support group
> mozilla.support.semonkey or in the mozinnaZine forum first.

Frank could you please go through the process of setting up a new account in which the Manage Identities dialog is used to set the outbound server, capture screenshots at each stage and attach them to this report.

Comment 36

[Carlyle Moulton]

(In reply to Frank-Rainer Grahl (:frg) from comment #4)
> Because you set it in the account settings not in the Server settings. Go
> one level higher. There you also find the Manage Identities Button for
> adding new ones.

Frank.

Again I ask you to go through the exercise of setting up a new account using the Wizard and the SMPT server pull down list of the Accounts Settings screen. Make sure you choose a name for the new SMTP server that is not the same as any name already   known to Seamonkey.I believe this is the only course which will convince you that the problem is as I described it.

Going to bed now, my timezone is GMT+10.

Regards, Carl.

Comment 37

[Carlyle Moulton]

Frank-Rainer Grahl.

No comment on my latest comments?

How do get to look at the Seamonkey code?