Closed Bug 1559628 Opened 5 years ago Closed 3 years ago

No recommendations for legacy add-ons in Thunderbird 68 and Thunderbird 78

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Add-Ons: General, defect)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Add-Ons: General
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED MOVED

People

(Reporter: emoore, Unassigned)

References

(
URL
)

Details

I installed Thunderbird 68.0b1 under Windows 10. It disabled all of my add-ons and stated "Legacy add-ons must be updated to be compatible with 68.0. Learn more...."

For each of those legacy add-ons I expected something to help me find a replacement. I also looked in tools -> add-ons -> recommendations (which just had the standard page about featured add-ons and themes).

One of the legacy add-ons was CompactHeaders. I searched for it using tools -> add-ons -> extensions. It returned it in the search list (greyed out, with a adjacent "This add-on is not compatible with your version of Thunderbird. View other versions" when I hovered the mouse over it) but then listed Phoenity Buttons (not greyed out), Toggle Headers (greyed out), Account Colors (greyed out), and then Awesome LdapInfoShow (greyed out). That didn't help at all. I was not able to click on the greyed out CompactHeaders in order to try to get some information that might help me find a replacement.

The sidebar in that tab said : WORKS WITH Any Thunderbird All Systems. That is misleading. It also shouldn't have listed (by default) any add-ons that were unsupported. I should have had to change the filter settings to see them.

ImportExportTools was another installed legacy add-on. I've read in tb-planning that an updated version was going to be provided for 68 and later on it would be merged into the Thunderbird code. I saw no sign of its functionality in the menus, and no indication that an update (even if it was just a placeholder until the real version was available) was available under a different name.

Its awkward to find a replacement. Many users are going to expect explicit help in finding a replacement due to Firefox providing some assistance in the past. If its not practical to provide a recommendation for every legacy add-on perhaps you could add a paragraph to tools -> add-ons -> recommendations that has a link to a page listing potential replacements for the top 50 add-ons.

For example "Shrunked Image Resizer" is compatible and found. "CompactHeaders" is not yet compatible. If you click on "Works with / Any Thunderbird", you get the compatible versions.

Two questions:

  • Has this been mentioned or discussed in tb-planning or an addon group?
  • I don't recall Firefox having a solution for this - is that correct? (And if they haven't, why not?)

I'm unconvinced it's worth modifying any logic here. You only see so many unsupported add-ons because there are very, very few add-ons that are compatible with 68 right now. If people end up with no results returned, they may think that that's an actual bug. At least if they see greyed out unsupported add-ons, they understand the add-ons are there, they just don't support 68.

I think we're hoping most if not all of the top 50 will get 68 versions before we go to auto-updates. If we think that's unlikely, then maybe we can discuss some solution. Any kind of automated 'find a replacement' thing on ATN is probably a non-starter though. Too many code modifications, and not enough add-on users to justify the time and cost. E: That doesn't mean we can't build something that goes elsewhere, but definitely not in the next few weeks.

I think the issue here is there is not enough updated add-ons yet, not that a replacement wizard is needed. But I am seriously of the opinion that probably 90% of TB60 add-ons should be compatible before an release is made. One release where popular add-ons were missing is enough, to follow it up with another is asking a lot of faith from the users of add-ons.

The impending update to version 68 might be a good opportunity for monetization - I have been sitting on an updated version for SmartTemplate⁴ for a couple of months and keep having to make lots of modifications to remain compatible; as you may or may not know, I am currently doing a freemium model ("Pro version" is monetized via an annual license) for this Add-on and two others (quickFilters, QuickFolders) and find it hard to convince people to pay for the ongoing work.

So I am thinking of adding a "standard license" for SmartTemplate⁴ to basically remove the "free as in beer option", I would rather lose users at this stage (and obviously point them to free alternatives) than completely give up the project. I am thinking of ways that could motivate my users to go this route when they update (a version check for Thunderbird68 would be a start) - but it is uncharted territory, not like something like the google play store or chrome Add-ons.

I firmly believe that there will be many problems with incompatible/missing Add-ons if their developers do not look into monetization; and users are not aware that we as Add-on authors are moving on breaking ice - is there anything that ATN can do to support this / make it more palpable? I am not talking a full on shop or anything, more like a PSA that reveals the fact that constant care is needed by the developers to keep their Add-ons working on the platform? (And that Mozilla is not financing this, even though many users assume that)

Well, I see a few comments that suggest many (or most) of the popular legacy add-ons will be made compatible for use with TB68. That has not happened! It should concern everyone associated with Thunderbird that developers have not made but a few of their add-ons compatible.

I personally miss not having 'Calendar Tweaks' and 'CustomizeMyBird'. Sadly, I have see (read) that the developer of the CustomizeMyBird add-on is refusing to make it compatible for TB68. I do not know what the particular profession code of ethics might be among developers, but maybe someone can adopt 'CustomizeMyBird' and make it compatible. Is this something that can be investigated and considered?

Keep in mind that thousands of Thunderbird/Lightning Calendar users have added add-on extensions that are now no longer available. Now my toolbar buttons look terrible and my calendar events are lacking the tweaks I have enjoyed so much, all due to the fact I can no longer use those add-ons. I don't like that...and I'm quite sure there are many thousands of people just like me.

(In reply to codename from comment #6)

'CustomizeMyBird'.

A quick Google tells me the replacement is supposed to be https://github.com/Aris-t2/CustomCSSforTb -- the author seems to not want their add-ons on ATN, not much we can do about that.

Andrei - Thank you for that information ( https://github.com/Aris-t2/CustomCSSforTb ) about the replacement. However, neither of the three (3) downloadable add-on versions (master, v1.0.0.zip or v1.0.1.zip) can be added to my TB68.2.1 (using Install add-ons from file method) because all three trigger a flag note that says they are not compatible with 68.2.1. Maybe they were/are compatible with 68.0.0, but not with 68.2.1. Any ideas how I can get the add-on? Should I try communicating with Aris-t2? I appreciate the help...

Andrei - Again, thanks for the link but after researching what all is necessary to get Aris' CustomCSSforTb to work on TB68 like the old 'CalendarTweaks' and to maintain it - I'll pass on ding it and hope that someone comes along and makes the add-on (or something similar to CalendarTweaks) compatible for TB68. I'm afraid that Aris' future updates would be difficult to manage, and turning On & Off various features with Notepad+++ would become a chore I don't need. But, thanks anyway. I appreciate it.

Yeah, sorry I can't help you much with it. You could try contacting the developer. The unfortunate reality is that some developers can't afford the time to keep up with the yearly changes to Thunderbird, but those changes cannot stop either because they are often the consequences of upstream Mozilla changes. There isn't really any easy solution on either side.

I do think over time we will increase the coverage for extensions for 68, there are several extension developers adopting and you developers coming on board.
I'm not sure I'm completely off-base, but is the extension UserChromeCSS by Jonathan K a relevant solution?
he specifically created for 60+

cleidigh - I hope you're right about a lot of extension developers willing to adopt, design and maintain the top add-ons that people have come to appreciate in pre-TB68 and desire for TB68+. In my opinion it would be absolute terrible if the top 50+ add-ons that thousands of people have used were suddenly no longer available. But that is exactly where we are now! The only add-on from my short list of pre-TB68 add-ons that I have been able to add back is Xpunge. I'm having withdrawals not having CustomizeMyBird and CalendarTweaks. I really miss those two add-ons! I'd gladly donate $50 each for maintained compatible replacement add-ons for TB68+.

As for 'UserChromeCSS' - I'll pass on that too. I have a gut feeling that custom adding extensions requiring file modifications could present more trouble over-time than I care to deal with. I guess I'll just hope for the best and put myself in the 'waiting box' with many thousands of other TB users that are wondering where their add-ons went, and why no one wants to make them compatible and easy to add to TB68...

You know, it's kinda like getting a new model year car but the car maker made such major changes that features/options like the power windows, power seats, sunroof, radio, navigation, turn signals and headlights no longer work, and they can't tell you when these features/options will become usable. You can still drive the new car, but all the nice features and convenient touches that made your previous car so satisfying and enjoyable are now missing from what should be an enhanced model. That would not be good planning! And, it would upset a lot of people! And, most people would not be willing to deal it! <end of rant>

(In reply to Andrei Hajdukewycz [:sancus] from comment #3)

I'm unconvinced it's worth modifying any logic here. You only see so many unsupported add-ons because there are very, very few add-ons that are compatible with 68 right now. If people end up with no results returned, they may think that that's an actual bug. At least if they see greyed out unsupported add-ons, they understand the add-ons are there, they just don't support 68.

I think we're hoping most if not all of the top 50 will get 68 versions before we go to auto-updates. If we think that's unlikely, then maybe we can discuss some solution. Any kind of automated 'find a replacement' thing on ATN is probably a non-starter though. Too many code modifications, and not enough add-on users to justify the time and cost. E: That doesn't mean we can't build something that goes elsewhere, but definitely not in the next few weeks.

Why don't you all take a hard look at the Top50 and consider incorporating the functionality in them that so many users find compelling and make those features a native part of the interface?

(In reply to dmcichy from comment #13)

(In reply to Andrei Hajdukewycz [:sancus] from comment #3)

Why don't you all take a hard look at the Top50 and consider incorporating the functionality in them that so many users find compelling and make those features a native part of the interface?

I don't think that's a good fit for most users. Add-ons are there to add very specific feature sets, and they not all interesting (or helpful) to the majority of users. Having said that, it's very hard to market (and maintain) high functioning Add-ons, no matter how good they are. I always get 5 star reviews that say "this should be included in Thunderbird vanilla" and I would agree, but who knows really how manu "ordinary" user would feel the same? They haven't all downloaded and tried it.

(In reply to dmcichy from comment #13)

Why don't you all take a hard look at the Top50 and consider incorporating the functionality in them that so many users find compelling and make those features a native part of the interface?

I think that is an excellent idea...given that over 25 million depend on Thunderbird for their email client! The people at Thunderbird are developers/designers of this type of things, right? So, adding the top 50 Add-ons as included optional features of TB should be a piece of cake.

But at the very least, Thunderbird should adopt the top 50 Add-ons and make them compatible for the most recent TB updates by either (a) taking ownership of the top 50 Add-ons and making them compatible, or by (b) paying the developers of the Add-ons to make them compatible. That shouldn't be too difficult for TB to arrange and make happen. I mean, TB is in the business of this type of thing, right?

(In reply to codename from comment #15)

I think that is an excellent idea...given that over 25 million depend on Thunderbird for their email client! The people at Thunderbird are developers/designers of this type of things, right? So, adding the top 50 Add-ons as included optional features of TB should be a piece of cake.

But at the very least, Thunderbird should adopt the top 50 Add-ons and make them compatible for the most recent TB updates by either (a) taking ownership of the top 50 Add-ons and making them compatible, or by (b) paying the developers of the Add-ons to make them compatible. That shouldn't be too difficult for TB to arrange and make happen. I mean, TB is in the business of this type of thing, right?

We are considering some add-ons for inclusion in core in various ways. However, if you think adding the top 50 add-ons is a piece of cake, you should try it yourself...Also, even within the top 50 there are add-ons with relatively few users(the bottom of the top 50 have ~12K users, which is ~0.1% of all users) that do very niche things that aren't really appropriate for general inclusion.

TB is a free email client supported solely by donations. We aren't funded by Mozilla, and don't enjoy anywhere near the same resources that Firefox has. And even they don't generally pay add-on developers.

In general this kind of discussion on ways to make add-ons compatible with 68 is well outside the scope of this bug, however. Please don't use Bugzilla bugs as general brainstorming threads. If you want to post about generalized add-on support issues, you can look at tb-planning[1] or the add-ons topicbox mailing list[2].

  1. https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning
  2. https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/addons

(In reply to codename from comment #15)

I think that is an excellent idea...given that over 25 million depend on Thunderbird for their email client! The people at Thunderbird are developers/designers of this type of things, right? So, adding the top 50 Add-ons as included optional features of TB should be a piece of cake.

Not quite sure whether I am in the top 50 (by numbers) but I am definitely in the top 10 highest rated (QuickFolders). There is 10 years of work in this, and let me tell you this, support is not easy, and keeping my code base up to date (several 10k lines of code) isn't either. I doubt very much any of the Thunderbird core developers would thank me for having to take over that job...

But at the very least, Thunderbird should adopt the top 50 Add-ons and make them compatible for the most recent TB updates by either (a) taking ownership of the top 50 Add-ons and making them compatible, or by (b) paying the developers of the Add-ons to make them compatible. That shouldn't be too difficult for TB to arrange and make happen. I mean, TB is in the business of this type of thing, right?

Well as far as I am concerned, I let my users pay me - and I would encourage any Add-on author to do the same. In the long term, this is the only viable option. I don't think the Thunderbird team would be interested in paying me as much as I currently earn from my Add-ons. but I admit it took a few years to get to this position.

PS: on numbers, personally I don't give much on numbers, there are a bunch of Add-ons that are actually browser extensions (such as Adblock Plus) and they really do not add that much value to our mail client. So even though they may be installed, I doubt they are actually very much used in that environment. People install a load of crap on their machines, but do they really use it?

Axel - I understand your compelling argument, and I will take the opportunity to reply. I believe the add-ons are a lot more important than Thunderbird's core developers may think. With so many excellent add-ons that have been available to boost Thunderbird's power, Thunderbird only got better over-time. But now, suddenly things have changed with TB68+ because 99% of the add-ons are [now] no longer compatible. I dare say that darn near every TB user (how many millions of users are there?) has no clue whatsoever why their add-ons no longer work. They [might] see the message about their add-ons no longer being compatible, but they really do not understand what is going on behind the scene with the major changes taking place with Thunderbird. These users are not going to research to find out and learn all the particulars about how and why the Thunderbird sausage machine has been replaced with a different model sausage machine that makes the sausage look and taste differently!

These popular add-ons that Thunderbird users have installed need to continue to be made available...and promptly - somehow, some way. Not addressing this and just hoping the add-on developers will make the necessary changes for compatibility in due time is a huge mistake. Why should they - what's in it for them? The donation hypothesis may work to develop a new Thunderbird without Mozilla's money, guidance and support, but I'm not so sure the add-on developers are willing to do what is required of them. I really do not think the powers-to-be thought this add-on matter through. Long Live Thunderbird!

You're quoting fictional percentages.
Anyway, you just have to realize there is really nothing to do about it if add-on authors don't update their code. We can't hold back development so it would be easier for them. What we can do is provide stable APIs for some things, and that's the route we're on. Thunderbird needs to keep up with the platform, and the platform itself needs to move fast or it stands severe risk of sinking into irrelevance.

Hey Folks,

thanks so much for the discussion on this bug, there are a lot of great ideas on how we could make Thunderbird more useful.

As bugzilla is meant for technical discussions on the implementation of the issues and this bug has collected a few slightly off topic comments, I'm restricting comments on this bug.

As Andrei has pointed out in comment 16, the best place for discussions around add-ons is topicbox or for more general discussions tb-planning.

Specifically for this bug, we'll see if there is any specific action we can take, for example recommending replacements. Generally though, the add-on authors are responsible for updating their add-ons.

Philipp

Restrict Comments: true

I do think it would be useful to make add-on recommendations such as ImportExportTools NG for ImportExportTools (which is the most popular add-on besides Lightning). I've raised this before, but I think an in-product prompt would be most useful "This add-on does not support Thunderbird 68, however a replacement based on the original from a different author exists. Learn More" (or something like that).

I am still only seeing a small number of former Stationery users finding my Add-on SmartTemplate4, is there any way I can fix this from my side?

We discussed this a long time ago in a developer meeting, but apparently no action was ever taken :-(

Like for https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/importexporttools/ I've now inserted a similar notice for https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/stationery/. I was under the impression that this had already been executed ages ago.

Apologies for continuing the conversation here, but I don't have time to track down previous forum conversations on the subject. If someone has references we can perhaps continue there.

(In reply to Jorg K (CEST = GMT+2) from comment #23)

We discussed this a long time ago in a developer meeting, but apparently no action was ever taken :-(

Like for https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/importexporttools/ I've now inserted a similar notice for https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/stationery/. I was under the impression that this had already been executed ages ago.

Does inserting this notice require someone "taking over" the old add-on?

This is only on the add-on page at ATN right, nothing appears in add-ons manager in Thunderbird?

(In reply to Ryan Lee Sipes from comment #21)

I do think it would be useful to make add-on recommendations such as ImportExportTools NG for ImportExportTools (which is the most popular add-on besides Lightning). I've raised this before, but I think an in-product prompt would be most useful "This add-on does not support Thunderbird 68, however a replacement based on the original from a different author exists. Learn More" (or something like that).

Do we believe we have enough people to do the work, and that this scales?

If not, the alternative is what ... a KB article?

Summary: No recommendations for legacy add-ons in Thunderbird 68 → No recommendations for legacy add-ons in Thunderbird 68 and Thunderbird 78

This bug has become a multi issue bug, which makes it hard to track.

There is bug 1576772 which is about the missing sanity check on search results in the add-on manager.

The Thunderbird team has put some effort into supporting add-on developers updating their add-ons. I personally have reached out to developers and helped to convert multiple add-ons and continue to do so. We also have direct support via matrix chat and topicbox, both listed here:
https://developer.thunderbird.net/add-ons/community

Suggesting replacement add-ons is difficult. Adding a note to the add-on listing is a gray area, as we have no consent from the developer. Doing in-product replacement suggestions is a lot of work and as Sancus I am unsure about the cost/benefit ratio. Firefox does have a tool for that. I created the dedicated bug 1713761 for that.

Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 3 years ago
Resolution: --- → MOVED
See Also: → 1713761
See Also: → 1576772
You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.