Closed Bug 160694 Opened 18 years ago Closed 15 years ago
Page Info should not have a Help button
The Page Info window shouldn't have a `Help' button. It's unnecessary, and it's confusing people because it makes the window look like a dialog when it's not.
for the record: The help button was the fix for bug 140466
bugspam: I hate that 'help' button, looks kind of like a 'close' button so I always hit it when I want to close the dia^H^H^Hwindow.
no, the help button is useful. Other solutions are possible: move the help button to the left edge of the dialog (probably looks funny), add a close button, both of those, make the word Help on the button larger, red, and blinking, or pop up a warning that your about to open the help file, do you want to close the dialog instead. Ok, maybe I'm just bored. As far as I can tell though, it's either that or just WONTFIX this.
Generally, I find Help buttons to be rather helpful.
if it was a dialog, we could use the help widget that comes from the os (macos has a button in the top right corner, and windows places the widget into the dialog border by the x)
>if it was a dialog, we could use the help widget that comes from the os not on gtk or xlib...
oh right, the alternative while we're fighting is to add a context menu that contains a "what's this" item which should behave as what's this items behave. Do we have a bug for what's this lying around somewhere? re widgets, the macos widget is top right internal to the frame, so mozilla would have to paint it itself (as with all other buttons). wrt placement of a context help button for unix, .. i haven't used the latest gnome/kde so i don't know how they handle it. Again, i'd expect this silly creature to be a dialog and for xbl to be responsible for placing the help button/widget as appropriate (if unix needs to pick an arbitrary spot, it can, i don't really care, it can even stick the button where it is now, although i'd probably suggest following apple's placement)
Depends on: 140466
Context menu is not good, most people will never discover it.
We don't have a Help button in Navigator either. We have a Help menu. A menu is the way to go IMO.
The principle that I would like to invoke here is "give people what they expect" which will someday be known as Baron Schwartz's Principle of Good UI. I tested this out on my brother and sure enough, he hit the Help button when he tried to close the window, just like I did. When there is only one button in something that looks like this, you expect it's a close button, plain and simple.This should have two buttons; then you will look before clicking. When there's only one you don't look because you know what it is.
Also add F1 shortcut to access help.
Comment on attachment 115627 [details] [diff] [review] Remove Hellp button from page info The JS code expects to be able to replace the progressmeter with the spacer, which will result in an annoying visual effect (and a JS error) if it is not changed. And IMHO if you do remove the button you should use a proper status bar in this window.
Attachment #115627 - Flags: review?(db48x) → review-
Don't hide the progress meter so content doesn't flex, and remove the reference to the spacer.
Attachment #115627 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Try putting the progresss meter in a status bar and see what it looks like.
It looks pretty much the same except for the resize widget thingy at the bottom right corner. What happens if the window manager adds its own resize widgets? (i think OSX does this)
that's in a platform specific overlay, so it goes away when not needed. if it's in the status bar and you hide it, does the status bar stay the same height? (it should). I think a hidden progress meter looks better than an empty one.
oh, and you need to adjust the padding and margins and so on so that the status bar hits the edge of the window/dialog Thanks
Daniel, what is the best way to adjust padding/margins? does this have to be done in css in the theme?
Hiding the progress bar causes both the height and width of the statusbar to change. :( However, if i use class="progressmeter-statusbar" the progress bar has no border anyway (but the statusbar does). Have a look at the screenshot and see what you think. To make it fit flush with the edge of the dialog i removed class="dialog" - is this ok, or is there a reason for it?
Make the statusbar flush with the edge and use class="progressmeter-statusbar"
Attachment #115629 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Comment on attachment 115763 [details] [diff] [review] Remove Help button from page info v3 awesome. Thanks.
Attachment #115763 - Flags: review?(db48x) → review+
Comment on attachment 115763 [details] [diff] [review] Remove Help button from page info v3 >- align="stretch" class="dialog" >+ align="stretch" Nit: align="stretch" is the default, so this line can die.
F1 is not a cross platform way of accessing help (it's not on Mac, anyway). I think we have platform specific overlays somewhere to handle that, though I would love to see someone implement the back-end code needed for DOM_VK_HELP. Other than that, I'm not convinced the help button should go. Why not add a close button on Windows (and Unix?), and keep things as they are on Mac?
because it isn't needed, and because it takes up more space than I'd prefer
and anyway, what is the standard keystroke on the mac?
Mac keyboards have a `Help' key where PC keyboards have the `PrtScrn' key. Some Mac apps also respond to Command+questionmark.
does Mozilla use those keys anywhere else?
Any movement possible on this bug, or should it be wontfix'ed re comment 23?
no, it shouldn't. Jag just needs to answer my questions. I'll email him, I guess.
I think a better solution is putting an OK button (see my comment in bug 181764)
daniel wang: would you please stop deCCing people who aren't you? some other people probably watch them.
I think that the real solution to this bug is to add a OK button and keep the Help button. I agree with Daniel, why don't we have an OK button in the Page Info dialog? It's illogical not to have one. If you want a patch, I'm sure I can come up with one. > daniel wang: would you please stop deCCing people who aren't you? some other > people probably watch them. rudman and oeschger are an exception :). I'd like them to be removed and nobody should really be watching them (except maybe rudman for web docs, but that has nothing to do with this bug).
Not to flame, but an OK button in this dialog is _COMPLETELY_ wrong. An OK button, at least on Windows, means "I've made changes in this dialog, now close it." It's impossible to make changes in this dialog, so there are no changes to OK. There's already a Close button (the X in the upper right-hand corner), so there's no need for a second Close button. The Help button at least has some unique, conceivably beneficial functionality, so it's redeemed in that way, but it's placement is awful, because it's where one expects the Close button to be.
(In reply to comment #33) > Not to flame, but an OK button in this dialog is _COMPLETELY_ wrong. An OK > button, at least on Windows, means "I've made changes in this dialog, now close > it." It's impossible to make changes in this dialog, so there are no changes to > OK. That is not really correct. A message dialog has an OK button, but nothing will be changed, it is merely a warning. I think you're thinking of the Apply button when it comes to changes. If we were to have an OK button, it would be like the IE Properties dialog (with all the great enhancements, of course :)). Isn't there a separate bug for this issue somewhere?
>That is not really correct. A message dialog has an OK button, but nothing will >be changed, it is merely a warning. I think you're thinking of the Apply button >when it comes to changes. Nope. A message dialog DOES indicate a change, e.g., "Save your changes? OK/Cancel". (As an aside, there are idiotic alerts that only give you an OK button, and no other. These are not even dialogs, in the linguistic sense of the word -- the user is permitted no meaningful response! -"You've chosen to format your hard drive. You'll now lose all your data. We suggest a doing little dance. OK.") The IE Properties has an OK button, but that OK button means "close the dialog, and save my changes". (Incidentally, Apply means "apply these changes without closing the dialog".) It's impossible to make changes in the Page Info dialog, so there are no changes to OK. There's no reason to keep looking for an excuse to put an OK button in the Page Info dialog. If you still disagree, please read http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2002/09/04#a332.
What we need is a Close option for <dialog buttons> (see bug 232403) We are not looking for an execuse to add an OK button. We need the Help button because we don't yet have a contextual Help widget. We need another button because people are hitting Help by accident when they want to close the dialog. This is how we do it for Image Manager and Cookie Manager--a Close button.
> Nope. A message dialog DOES indicate a change, e.g., "Save your changes? > OK/Cancel". (As an aside, there are idiotic alerts that only give you an OK > button, and no other. These are not even dialogs, in the linguistic sense of the > word -- the user is permitted no meaningful response! -"You've chosen to format > your hard drive. You'll now lose all your data. We suggest a doing little > dance. OK.") No, that's not right. In the windows properties dialog, there are many that you can't change anything (IE is a good example), yet there is an OK button to dismiss the dialog. This window is providing information, and you can have an OK button to dismiss the information. Maybe like Daniel said, a Close button would be more appropriate? My offer of a patch still remains if everyone agrees.
This is getting silly. This is the last time I'm going to speak on the subject. (In reply to comment #37) > No, that's not right. In the windows properties dialog, there are many that you > can't change anything (IE is a good example), yet there is an OK button to > dismiss the dialog. I don't know what version of IE you're using, but in IE 6 SP1, Tools, Internet Options produces a dialog that a) has an OK button, but b) also has a TONN of options that could be changed. Are you referring to some other dialog? > Maybe like Daniel said, a Close button would be more appropriate? A Close button in addition to the Help button would be consistent with the manager dialogs in the Mozilla suite, as Daniel suggests. By all means, it would be better than any other button in addition to Help, and also better than Help alone. My comment that all these buttons are unnecessary still stands. Notably, Firebird 0.7's Page Info dialog, although not ideal, has NO buttons. (Presumably Firebird developers plan to implement Help some other way.)
db48x: read below. > I don't know what version of IE you're using, but in IE 6 SP1, Tools, Internet > Options produces a dialog that a) has an OK button, but b) also has a TONN of > options that could be changed. Are you referring to some other dialog? Read the email I sent you personally. > A Close button in addition to the Help button would be consistent with the > manager dialogs in the Mozilla suite, as Daniel suggests. By all means, it would > be better than any other button in addition to Help, and also better than Help db48x: are you OK with this? should I make a patch? > My comment that all these buttons are unnecessary still stands. Notably, > Firebird 0.7's Page Info dialog, although not ideal, has NO buttons. (Presumably > Firebird developers plan to implement Help some other way.) Not that I know of. Since the Help Viewer was only recently checked into Firebird, I'm sure Help buttons will be added.
The help button on the Page Info pages/tabs has been removed now by the patch from bug 195492 so I am duping this one to that bug. (Help is now thought to be accessed via F1.) I guess the pending sr should now be removed too... *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 195492 ***
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 15 years ago
Resolution: --- → DUPLICATE
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