205631 - hsbc.com.au - Mozilla not a supported browser for internet banking

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(Tech Evangelism Graveyard :: English Other, defect)

Description

[Alex]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313

From the nominated URL <https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/>, the browser is
redirected to <https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/jsp/en/Logon.jsp>, where a message
states:

To access Internet Banking, please use:
    * Internet Explorer version 5.0 or above; or
    * Netscape Communicator version 4.72 or above (version 6.x currently not
supported)

This problem has persisted across several versions of mozilla on linux.  "User
agent override" does not fool this site.  Contrary to their statement, netscape
4.79 for linux does not work.

I have used mozilla on a Win2k box to access this site (unsure of mozilla
version).  There were some worrying messages about passwords being submitted
unencrypted, but the internet banking system worked without any obvious
problems.  I did not have to adjust useragent.

By spoofing IE with Konqueror I can log in, but many critical buttons in the
main nav menu are broken.

I sent an email to <[e-mail]>, and received a reply
that linux was not supported by their internet banking system (!!).

If this is not a mozilla evangelism issue, I'm sorry for wasting your time.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. use mozilla browser to connect to https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/
Actual Results:  
Mozilla is not in the list of supported browsers.  No fields for "personal
banking number" or PIN appear.

Expected Results:  
Fields for "personal number" and "personal identification number" should appear,
together with a submit button called login.

Comment 1

[Patrick]

seems like Tech Evang alright.
Possible dupe of bug 98179?

Comment 2

[Kai Lahmann (is there, where MNG is)]

please check if this problem still exists, because we want to get rid of
unconfirmed bugs.
Many bugs in here are strill unconfirmed, because eigher nobody sees the problem
or nobody is able to get to the page because of a required login.

(sorry for the spam)

Comment 3

[Alex]

This "bug" does not require a login to confirm - simply point your mozilla-on-gnu-linux 
browser at <https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/>.  A page will load asking you to use a 
different browser to access this site (at least, that's what happens for me).  What 
SHOULD appear is a page with a login form to submit.

I don't think I'm allowed to confirm this bug, as I'm the person who submitted it.

Comment 4

[Kai Lahmann (is there, where MNG is)]

if they even know, that Netscape 7 exists for a year now?

Comment 5

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

Mass reassigning English-Other bugs to general default assignees.

Comment 6

[Michael van der Kolff]

I rang them about a year ago on this issue - I ended up speaking to some
**** who spouted off some nonsense about there being so many distrib's of
Linux, so it was hard to test... I agree that he should stop spouting off,
seeing as the Gecko core is fairly stable :)

Comment 7

[Michael van der Kolff]

One more thing - this one works with the debian konqueror/testing (3.2.2) which
I think uses the KHTML renderer, so there's nothing else that would prevent it
from working (since we all know Gecko MUST be superior to KHTML, right? :) )...

Comment 8

[Michael van der Kolff]

Oops, forgot to mention - must use the option for Konqueror to say that I look
like IE 6 to HSBC

Comment 9

[Bogdan Stroe]

(In reply to comment #3)
> This "bug" does not require a login to confirm - simply point your
mozilla-on-gnu-linux 
> browser at <https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/>.  A page will load asking you to
use a 
> different browser to access this site (at least, that's what happens for me).
 What 
> SHOULD appear is a page with a login form to submit.
> 

Is this still an issue? I just went to that page (using Firefox 0.8 on Win2k)
and it shows me the login form.

Comment 10

[Oleg Sidletskiy]

*** Bug 248710 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 11

[Alex]

As stated in the initial "bug" report, I did not have the same problem accessing
this site using mozilla on Win2k. However, using firefox or mozilla on linux,
the failure message appears to this day. This message appears before the chance
to login, and the bug can be verified without a login.

Konqueror now works almost OK for this site (apart from some 100% CPU arts or
kdeinit issues and some broken buttons), provided you spoof MSIE. This one site
forces me to keep KDE lying around.

Options to fix this are: 
* beat some sense into HSBC Australia
* improve IE spoofing technique to be as good as Konqueror (don't know what they
do, but it seems to work).

The latter option is hopefully reaching some sort of conclusion at:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166395

In an ideal world, these sites would support mozilla on linux, but until then,
long live better spoofing.

Comment 12

[Michael van der Kolff]

Note that Bug 166395 is now fixed on the trunk; obviously, one extra step is
involved, but it's expected that this will be a purely evangalism bug to most
people once this is fixed.  Obviously, would be better if we didn't have to
configure, but convincing this Jobsworths is a PITA.

Cheers,

Michael

Comment 13

[Travis Chase]

URL redirects to a log on screen and does not say anything about what browser to
use. I can't do anything past the logon screen so i don't know if there is any
more outstanding navigation issues

Comment 14

[Alexey Chernyak]

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070306 Firefox/2.0.0.2
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070306 SeaMonkey/1.1.1

URL: https://www.ebank.hsbc.com.au/jsp/en/Logon.jsp


The problem still remains:

> To access internet banking, please use:
>
>    * Internet Explorer version 5.0 or above; or
>          o Netscape Communicator version 4.72 or above (version 6.x currently not supported)


Able to logon with User Agent Switcher extension by:
1. Switching UA to Internet Explorer 6 (Windows XP) - to avoid the above error message on the Logon page.
2. By switching UA back to Default after logging on - to avoid errors due to running of IE-customised JavaScript code.

I haven't tested all functionality while logged on.

Comment 15

[Alexey Chernyak]

Attachment: HSBC blocks 1/3 of clientèle and forces insecure software on customers

Attached is the e-mail I send 2 days ago to HSBC Australia addressed to:

* Generic Personal Financial Services e-mail address
* Generic Personal Financial Services Assistant that opened my HSBC account
* Head of Direct Banking/e-Channels
* Head of Personal Financial Services who also happens to be Deputy Chief Executive


Yesterday I received a fairly generic "thank you / we'll investigate / find out more about our complaint handling" reply from a Customer Service Consultant.


Today I received the following from the Head of Direct Banking/e-Channels:

> Alexey,

> Thank you for your feedback, which HSBC's Customer Service Centre sent an 
> initial response to yesterday. I am sorry to hear about the difficulties 
> you have encountered.

> Within the next 2 months HSBC will be introducing changes to our Internet 
> Banking service. These changes will include compatibility with Firefox 
> browsers. 

> HSBC's website details which browser versions HSBC's Internet Banking 
> Service is compatible with. Customers utilising other browser versions are 
> not necessarily prevented from using HSBC's Internet Banking Service, but 
> may experience difficulties using certain functions.  I am pleased to 
> advise we will be extending browser compatibility with upcoming changes to 
> our service.

> Kind regards,

> ...

Comment 16

[Chris Lawson (gone)]

Are they still blocking Firefox?

How about Seamonkey or Camino?

Comment 17

[Alex]

HSBC Australia have changed their internet banking interface. At the moment, everything works for me using Firefox 3.0b5 on linux. No spoofing is necessary.

You can almost confirm this by following this link and then clicking on "Log In" in the top right corner:

https://www.hsbc.com.au/

The following message is displayed:
---
The following set-up is preferable to have the best experience with this site:

* Screen resolution:1024x768 (800 x 600 resolution users should be able to view all content but horizontal and vertical scroll bars may need to be used)
* Operating system: Windows XP, Windows 2000, MAC OSX
* Web browser: Internet Explorer 7.0 or Netscape Navigator versions 8.1.2 or Firefox 2.0
* Cookies and Javascript: enabled
---

The actual banking interface beyond the login screen is a bit fragile and breaks with Firefox occasionally (so I still keep another browser installed), but most of the time everything works.

Comment 18

[Chris Lawson (gone)]

Well, that's *some* progress, at least ;)

Alex, would you mind trying this with a nightly development build of Firefox on Linux, one that identifies as "Minefield" (and lacks the word "firefox" anywhere in its UA string)?

cl

Comment 19

[Chris Lawson (gone)]

Alex, have you had a chance to investigate comment 18 any further?

Comment 20

[Alex]

Sorry about the delay.

Basically, everything works for me. No further breakage using the banking interface (not sure if this is due to HSBC changes, or changes in firefox).

I'm currently using:
Gecko/2008071615 Fedora/3.0.1-1.fc9 Firefox/3.0.1

As far as I'm concerned, this bug can be closed.

Comment 21

[Chris Lawson (gone)]

Alex, we need you to test this with a *development* version of Firefox, one that does *not* include the word "Firefox" in the UA string.

Comment 22

[Kyle Huey (Exited; not receiving bugmail, old account, do not use)]

Closing because the website is gone.  Please reopen if this is still a problem with whatever replaced it.

Comment 23

[Chris Lawson (gone)]

Reopening; the original URL in this bug has been dead for years, but see comment 17 et seq. for the new one. To be clear, the new STR are this:

1) Visit https://www.hsbc.com.au/ .
2) Click "Log On" under "Personal Banking" on the right.


The site is still very broken in Camino, with or without the "like Firefox" portion of the UA string present. It gets stuck in some sort of crazy endless redirect loop.

Firefox 3.5.5 appears to work (I don't have an account, so I can't test further), as does Minefield (surprisingly).

Someone should try this in Seamonkey and see if that works.

Comment 24

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

I don't have an Account there but it works with Seamonkey trunk (with Firefox header) until you have to login. I can't test further without Account.

Comment 25

[Jean-Yves Perrier [:teoli]]

I think we should close this with WORKFORME and let the OP reopen it if needed. The Website has very likely been rewritten since this bug has been open: the history in this bug will not be useful anyway.

Comment 26

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

I agree

Comment 27

[Alexey Chernyak]

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0

HSBC have rolled out a new version of the site last year.
Firefox is officially supported and the site works without any major problems.

> The following set-up is preferable to have the best experience with this site:
>     Web browser: Internet Explorer 7+, Firefox 3.5+, Chrome or Safari 4+