Editor's CSS styles option was never meant to apply to message compose. Unfortunately it did causing bug 116867 and possibly others. The correct fix should be to properly disable CSS styles in message compose, rather than the fix that was actually checked in. Note that if you disable CSS mode with that fix having been checked in then you can no longer send background images becuase they use the background attribute again.
CSS in Mail/News whether in Mozilla or Thunderbird is essential to DHTML. How else can JS manipulation of z-indexed layers be accomplished. Currently the HTML editor in Thunderbird is not even close to matching the abilities of that obsolete Netscape Communicator 4.7x, despite it's depreciated LAYER tag. If the built in editor is not going to be fixed to do full CSS compatability then for the sake of getting a robust tool into usres hands, give us a good standalone. I am getting tired of puting messages into the unsent mail box and then hacking there CSS with Windows Notetab or other text editors to to be able to utilise the abilites of the reader half of Mail/News.
Well someone meant it to apply at one time. 1.4 ala Netscape 7.1 allowed you to 1) insert a background (as an HTML attribute) 2) insert and edit CSS styles with the inline styles tab 3) edit previous messages without the loosing styles I am disappointed Daniel, I was looking forward to a future composer++ that was fully functional in Mail/News Joe
> I am disappointed Daniel, I was looking forward to a future > composer++ that was fully functional in Mail/News Hey guys, editor peers work on the editor core and Composer. It's not our responsability to integrate new features in mail composer for an EXCELLENT reason. Email implies compatibility with other mail systems. If we start doing very nice and sexy things that break our compatibility with the rest of the world, that's totally COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE. In that sense, taking myself the decision to add layers and z-index management to email was just impossible. Besides that, some important Webmails like Hotmail or Yahoo have IMPORTANT problems with HTML mails containing CSS-based layers. Wytigfyisagftw: What You Think Is Good For You Is Not Always Good For The Web.
As Compose stands right now, one can either use html or css, once it is working properly. If you wish to please Hotmail, etc., then use html and not css. IE/OE (A.K.A. the rest of the world) uses css in theirs, so why not in ours? The EXCELLENT reason could be that IE/OE has far superior capability regarding Multimedia than we have. CSS is one aspect of this. Regarding compatibility, this is fine, but is it not possible to ALSO include innovation as an OPTIONAL way of presentation of Mail/News? For complex Mail/News items using innovative means would dictate that the viewer must get a "modern/most recent" Mail/News Reader such as we offer. Why for heaven's sake would anyone using OE with multimedia content wish to change to our Mail/News reader!? They, and there are millions of them, want Glitz and Pizzazz! You want Mozilla to become a contender? Well, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out the answer - make it a kick-butt full-featured product, or are we to be content with cinema-noir? -- Gus Richter
> OE (A.K.A. the rest of the world) uses css in theirs, so why not in ours? OK, so I only have access to OE5.5, but it uses <U> for underline, not <span style="text-decoration: underline;"> (similarly for other styles).
There is a huge graphics community that uses mail/news to display their creative efforts via Yahoo groups and others, using mail, or through Usenet or private news servers. We are not talking just a few scattered grandmothers, but hundreds of thousands of users who would love to have an option to OE, but cannot unless they use Netscape 4.xx - those of us who participate in these communities, for that is what they are, are constantly having to apologize for all versions of Netscape/Moz since 4.xx and have spent at least two years assuring folks that in the final versions, it will be possible to switch, and be able to use Mozilla as a vehicle to participate in their hobby/craft/art groups without having to use OE with all of its inherent problems. We need, however, the support, understanding and involvement of the developers in order to reach this goal. I do not want to switch. I want to be able to help others switch to using Thunderbird, but at this point it is just impossible. I don't understand the reluctance to include this kind of ability in a product intended for end users. Sure, some might "misuse it" and send you email that you don't want - but hey, that's what the junk file is for. Please give us the ability to create for newsgroups - this is a very important ability, even though you might have your own reservations - don't punish the rest of us. Reading the comments here are very sad, and show a lack of understanding of those who want to use this product, and have been waiting for two years to be able to use it, and are still waiting, hoping, and testing. Sharon Litton
Hey, let's not get all confused. All this bug is requesting is a return to the 1.4 functionality whereby pressing the Bold button inserts a <B> etc.
Created attachment 130183 [details] [diff] [review] glazou's patch glazou emailed me (and others) this patch, and I tested it.
Comment on attachment 130183 [details] [diff] [review] glazou's patch Note, this only fixes the use of the background attribute, you still need to back out the previous fix to actually send a background.
Neil, in response to your comment #5: I don't know how much or what kind of mail you receive, but the nicely crafted ones which I have seen use CSS. The method used is by referencing the stylesheet declarations with a CID. Regarding your comment #7: I for one am not confused. What you are proposing is just not good enough to compete with what IE/OE users have had for years. Make it better than OE and not worse in capability. By going back to 1.4 it will be a regression. Make it an Option, please.
Consider the Netscape 4.X user who has worked for years on compositions which used layers for positioning. Step up to current standards you say well...without being able to use absolute positioning to simulate layers not a lot of folks will accept that. How about a minimally acceptable compliment of CSS restricted to positioning of images,tables, and Divs As far as returning to 1.4 functionality, at least there I could edit and apply CSS properties with the inline styles tab. That ability has also been lost along the way.
Created attachment 130205 [details] OE 5.5 NTTP post stylesheet Neal this is the style sheet extracted from an OE5.5 post I retrieved from news.annexcafe.com.
Regarding Neil's comment #7 > Hey, let's not get all confused. All this bug is requesting is a return to the > 1.4 functionality whereby pressing the Bold button inserts a <B> etc. Perhaps I've lost my ability to read, but in Daniel's Opener, I read nothing of the sort at all. What I read are: "Editor's CSS styles option was never meant to apply to message compose." and "The correct fix should be to properly disable CSS styles in message compose, rather than the fix that was actually checked in." This sounds more radical than what you translate it to say. Perhaps my Reader has filtered out some messages or portions thereof? -- Gus
"Editor's CSS styles option was never meant to apply to message compose." In 2001 Editor, and Message Compose, could not insert CSS styles, except via HTML Source, Insert HTML and the Advanced button in some of the dialogs. This feature was changed BUT ONLY FOR Editor, so that editing actions that used to set HTML attributes would now set CSS styles as far as that was possible. For instance, the size of an image would not be set using the attributes width="XX" height="YY" but the CSS style="width: XX; height: YY;". Now for some reason this started affecting Message Compose too. This meant that Message Compose could not locate any background images, as it only looked for <body background> and not <body style="background-image: url();">. I consider this change to be a regression from 1.4, so I filed this bug. "The correct fix should be to properly disable CSS styles in message compose, rather than the fix that was actually checked in." What I meant was, that Editor should not try to automatically convert HTML attributes to CSS styles, so I have changed the summary accordingly. This will restore Message Compose to 1.4 functionality. It is not intended to remove any functions, just perform them in the original way. If you feel that Message Compose should have the option of automatic HTML attribute to CSS style conversion then feel free to file an enhancement request.
Summary: Message compose should use HTML attributes, not CSS styles → Message compose should not automatically convert HTML attributes to CSS styles
First of all, pardon my attributing your bug description/opener to Daniel. Thank you for the clarification and correction. I am very glad to read that you do NOT propose to have CSS capability removed from message compose, which understanding Daniel seemed to support. I think we misunderstood each other from the get-go. The Option I had referred to was that IF css capability were to be removed from message compose by default, then at least make it available as an Option and not remove this capability completely. I am now pleased to read that the removal is/was not proposed, hence the Option is not necessary.
Thank you for the background info on Editor and Mail Compose. Not being familiar with SeaMonkey I was alarmed by the OC. Sorry for having rallyed the troops from Netscape.Test.MultiMedia to comment on the action we perceived would decrease the multimedia abilities of Tbird. We have been expriencing several difficulties with Mail/News Compose pertaining to background images for message background and table backgrounds. Additionaly, trying to do Message Edit as New is frustrating when the Inline CSS we know exists in a template is not available for editing in the new version. Since your proposed action is to eliminate a regression, then go for it. That means we should have a solid base level of HTML on which a strong CSS enabled Message Composer can add the needed advanced support which multimedia depends in this 5 or 6th generation of Mail/News products.
Comment on attachment 130183 [details] [diff] [review] glazou's patch Neil, I haven't had a chance to try this out yet. But can you confirm that the patch does indeed make editor start giving us the background attribute again on the body element after applying this patch? We can file a separte bug on me to back out my 'fixes' for adding inline style support.
Attachment #130183 - Flags: superreview?(scott) → superreview+
Comment on attachment 130205 [details] OE 5.5 NTTP post stylesheet ><STYLE> BODY %7B%0A%09 BORDER-RIGHT: #2e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-TOP: #2e5776 2px ridge; SCROLLBAR-FACE-COLOR: #27728f; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; SCROLLBAR-HIGHLIGHT-COLOR: #8eb187; BORDER-LEFT: #2e5776 2px ridge; SCROLLBAR-SHADOW-COLOR: #7db3dd; COLOR: #2e5776; SCROLLBAR-3DLIGHT-COLOR: #bcd7ec; SCROLLBAR-ARROW-COLOR: #8eb187; SCROLLBAR-TRACK-COLOR: #27728f; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2e5776 2px ridge; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; SCROLLBAR-DARKSHADOW-COLOR: #8eb187%; SCROLLBAR-BASE-COLOR: #27728f%0A%7D%0A.table1 %7B%0A%09 BORDER-RIGHT: #2e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-TOP: #2e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-LEFT: #2e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2e5776 2px ridge; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #8eb187%0A%7D%0A.table2 %7B%0A%09 BORDER-RIGHT: #2e5776%202px%20ridge; BORDER-TOP: #2e5776%202px%20ridge; BORDER-LEFT: #2e5776%202px%20ridge; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2e5776%202px%20ridge; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #8eb187%0A%7D%0A.td %7B%0A%09 BORDER-RIGHT: #2e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-TOP%3A%20%232e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-LEFT%3A%20%232e5776 2px ridge; BORDER-BOTTOM%3A%20%232e5776%202px%20ridge%3B%20%3D%0A BACKGROUND-COLOR%3A%20%238eb187%0A%7D%0A.textbox%20%7B%0A%09 BORDER-RIGHT%3A%20%232e5776%204px%20double%3B%20 BORDER-TOP%3A%20%232e5776%204px%20double%3B%20%3D%0A FILTER%3A%20alpha%28opacity%3D3D80%29%3B%20 BORDER-LEFT%3A%20%232e5776%204px%20double%3B%20%3D%0A BORDER-BOTTOM%3A%20%232e5776%204px%20double%3B BACKGROUND-COLOR%3A%20%238eb187%0A%7D%0A </STYLE>
Created attachment 130633 [details] [diff] [review] updated patch This updated patch includes Daniel's fix to make sure editor gives us the right CSS and a backout to my fixes for 116867 and 170504. Both of those bugs will remain fixed however as they both still work with this new patch. Background images in templates and drafts still work correctly when sent. As a bonus I fixed a bug where we were forgetting the dir attribute on the message body which was causing problems for bidi users. I'll be trying this patch out in the next round of thunderbird 0.2 candidate builds so we can make sure it doesn't break anything.
Attachment #130183 - Attachment is obsolete: true
We should get this for 1.5. Scott, can you help us with some quick review here? Anyone else need to review to get this in?
Flags: blocking1.5? → blocking1.5+
Patch is ok from an editor's point of view, not speaking here of mailnews/* files.
Attachment #130633 - Flags: review?(neil.parkwaycc.co.uk) → review+
Comment on attachment 130633 [details] [diff] [review] updated patch + PRBool hasBackground = PR_FALSE; + if (NS_SUCCEEDED(element->HasAttribute(NS_LITERAL_STRING("background"), &hasBackground))) + if (hasBackground) nit - you can just say && hasBackground instead of adding another if. Up to you, sr=bienvenu
Attachment #130633 - Flags: superreview?(bienvenu) → superreview+
I am using the current Thunderbird release and can confirm the combination of Daniels and Scott's patch returns the background to 1.4 html attribute. Template, and Drafts work correctly now. html styles are not automatically converted to css However this does not return us to 1.4 functionality regarding Mail editor. Existing styles were displayed with the inline styles tab in 1.4 and could be edited individually. This capability disappeared between 20030617 and 20030625 (see Mozillazine post http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=22706 Ref Neil's comment #14 What I meant was, that Editor should not try to automatically convert HTML attributes to CSS styles, so I have changed the summary accordingly. This will restore Message Compose to 1.4 functionality. It is not intended to remove any functions, just perform them in the original way. Mail Compose is not as capable as 1.4 at this point. Should another bug be filed in ref to the inop inline styles edit function JoeS
I've checked in the patch. note the a=glazman for the editor change and the a=asa for 1.5 final checkin.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 15 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Component: Composer CSS Editor → Composer
QA Contact: daniel → composer
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