223320 - increasing number of users can't find macOS 9 builds / download... [Mac OS 9]

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(www.mozilla.org :: General, defect, P3)

Description

[chris hofmann]

webmaster and suggestions mail is increasing on the topic of inability for users
to find builds for OS9.x.   neet to raise the visiability of the last OS9 build at:
 ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/mozilla-macos9-1.2.1-full.bin


The feedback looks a lot like this set of messages that arrived in the last few
hours....

This is not a suggestion ..... This is a problem!!!!!!!
What happened to MacOS 9 builds????
There are still millions of us out there [mostly graphics professionals] who don't
think that MacOS X is mature enough to switch to yet. 

Dear Webmaster,

I have noticed your browser on other computers which were PC. I was looking on a
download website and only found downloads for OS/2 and OSX for the MAC. I have
OS9.0. Do I use OS/2 or is there one for OS9.0?  Is there a cost for using on a
MAC computer?

Any information you can provide would be helpful.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Mark Vidler
Marketing Coordinator

I wonder if there is a mozilla version that runs on a Mac that has not yet
OSX?
I can not find any hint on your home page and I tried in vane to look for it
in the search mask.
Barbara Truog 
_________________________

Comment 1

[bart decrem, not checking bugmail]

I propose that we address this by simply having an easy to find link to a Mac
OS9 download on the download page.  I added this to bug 222514.

Comment 2

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

And I propose that we make it very clear that Mozilla is no longer available or
supported for OS 9.  Knowing the bugs (especially security related bugs) I
can't, in good conscience, direct users to download and use Mozilla 1.2, the
last release we did for OS 9.  If they find it and want to use it "unsupported,
warts and all" then so be it but I'm uncomfortable with mozilla.org or the
Mozilla Foundation actively pushing an OS 9 build that has serious known and
public (and fixed for all of the supported platforms) security bugs. 

The best thing we can do for OS 9 users is to point them at the WaMCom project
which made OS 9 builds from 1.3.1 (plus a few post 1.3 security and other fixes)
 See http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3366 and
http://wamcom.org/20030721/README-and-MD5.asc (this is a project from Kai
Engbert, a Mozilla developer) 

Comment 3

[Dawn Endico]

kaie, how up to date are your mac os 9 builds? Are you keeping up to date
with security  patches? It looks like the last builds are from august. If
you are, then we can direct mac os 9 users to you.

Comment 4

[Kai Engert [:KaiE:]]

The feedback I have received from Mac OS 9 users tells me, users are unhappy
with 1.2.1, but seem to be happy with WaMCom based on 1.3.1.

From my point of view recommending WaMCom 1.3.1 for Mac OS 9 makes more sense
than recommending official 1.2.1.


Note there are two separate unofficial Mozilla versions available for OS9 based
on 1.3.1.

Harunaga Hirotoshi provided a 1.3.1 based version, which is very close to
Mozilla.org's official 1.3.1 release. It is available from
http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~harunaga/mozilla-macos9/

The WaMCom software based on 1.3.1 is a modified version of Mozilla. It contains
selected code from 1.4 and some code, that is still not part of official Mozilla.


The future of Mozilla for Mac OS 9?

It is unlikely that I will provide newer versions for several reasons:

When I produced the WaMCom 1.3.1 build, I had access to a complete OS 9
development and compilation environment.

As of today, I no longer have Mac hardware, and I no longer have access to the
required Metrowerks compiler license.

While I originally had planned to maintain the WaMCom 1.3.1 branch, this has
somewhat changed. Should criticial security issues come up, I would be able to
produce new Linux and Windows builds. But I would be unable to produce Mac
builds. (However, if it were required to simply compile a fixed version of
WaMCom based on 1.3.1 for Mac OS, I expect I could ask Harunaga to help out and
compile fixed Mac binaries - I have a full backup of the Mac OS 9 WaMCom source
tree used to compile the latest release).

Another question that pops up often is: Will there be releases of WaMCom for Mac
OS 9 based on newer versions of Mozilla?
I don't think so. It was easy to produce WaMCom for OS 9, because it was just a
very short while after the community dropped OS 9 support, and not too much had
changed. But meanwhile a lot has changed, and it would require a lot of work to
adjust the code to work on OS9, and even if I had a Mac and the compiler, I
would not be willing to do all the work myself.

The conclusion, from my point of view, is, let's tell users:

- it seems very unlikely that future versions of Mozilla will be provided for
Mac OS 9 (unless a rich person donates a lot of money to pay for the work)

- the latest version of "semi official" Mozilla available for Mac OS 9, is
Mozilla 1.3.1 compiled by Harunaga Hirotoshi - he only changed a very small
portion of the code when compared with official 1.3.1.

- the latest known unofficial version of Mozilla is WaMCom, a variation of
Mozilla based on Mozilla 1.3.1 and some Mozilla 1.4 code and extensions.


Am I keeping up with security patches?
No, I'm not doing it myself.
It depends on the Mozilla community to discover and fix bugs in 1.3.1 and 1.4.1.
If this happens and patches for the older versions get produced, we can try to
produce fixed binaries.
But I can't promise it.


Thinking about a good statement for the Mozilla website, I'd tell users:
"Mozilla is Free Software. Free software depends on donations. Nobody was
willing to donate the time and money required to continue supporting Mac OS 9.
If you still require to use OS9, the best we can offer is available at the
following links, in the hope it helps you."

Comment 5

[chris hofmann]

ok let link to Harunaga Hirotoshi provided a 1.3.1 based version.
http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~harunaga/mozilla-macos9/
from the mozilla download page.

and remember the #1 rule in marketing: accentuate the positive  ;-)

this *still* is likely to be the lastest, greatest, and most secure browser
available on MacOS 9.x...

Comment 6

[Kai Engert [:KaiE:]]

Chris, if I understand correctly, you suggest to link to Harunaga's site only.

However, I think Mozilla.org should provide links to both versions.

There are good reasons for many users to prefer wamcom. For example, httpS is
nearly unusable in Hargunaga's build using standard 1.3.1 sources. There were
changes between 1.2 and 1.3 in the networking code, that were incompatible with
http/ssl on OS9. This problem is fixed in the latest OS9 wamcom build available
at http://wamcom.org/latest-131/ .

Comment 7

[chris hofmann]

ok.  how does this sound...

Due to the lack of developer, build machines, compilers and testing resources
thelast Mozilla.og OS9 was produced at milestone 1.2.1.  It can be found at:
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/mozilla-macos9-1.2.1-full.bin

Volenteers occationally provide newer updates that you may be interested in.

-A Mac OS 9 release, base on Mozilla 1.3.1, has been compiled by 
Harunaga Hirotoshi.  This version uses code very close to the code used for
Mozilla.org's official 1.3.1 release. 
It is available from  http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~harunaga/mozilla-macos9/

-WaMCom has produced a variation of Mozilla based primarily on Mozilla 1.3.1,
and adds some Mozilla 1.4 code and extensions.  There were changes between 1.2
and 1.3 in the networking code that were incompatible with http/ssl on OS9. 
This problem is fixed in the latest OS9 wamcom build available at
http://wamcom.org/latest-131/ 

Comment 8

[Kai Engert [:KaiE:]]

(Oops, I'm slow.)

Chris, your wording sounds very good to me!

But I'm correcting myself, instead of http/ssl we should better write https.
Thanks!

Comment 9

[chris hofmann]

spelling errors and typos corrected



Due to the lack of developer, build machines, compilers and testing resources
the last Mozilla.org OS9 was produced at milestone 1.2.1.  It can be found at:
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/mozilla-macos9-1.2.1-full.bin

Volunteers occasionally provide newer updates that you may be interested in.

-A Mac OS 9 release, base on Mozilla 1.3.1, has been compiled by 
Harunaga Hirotoshi.  This version uses code very close to the code used for
Mozilla.org's official 1.3.1 release. 
It is available from  http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~harunaga/mozilla-macos9/

-WaMCom has produced a variation of Mozilla based primarily on Mozilla 1.3.1,
and adds some Mozilla 1.4 code and extensions.  There were changes between 1.2
and 1.3 in the networking code that were incompatible with http/ssl on OS9. 
This problem is fixed in the latest OS9 wamcom build available at
http://wamcom.org/latest-131/ 

Comment 10

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

*** Bug 247288 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 11

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

reassigning endico's bugs to default owner

Comment 12

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

The Products page now has a link for OS9 users to a note at the bottom of the
Downloads page (http://www.mozilla.org/download.html#os9) about OS 9 builds. Is
this enough?

Comment 13

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

This is so much more than enough that it's kinda lame.

Comment 14

[Pete Boyd]

great. but you shouldn't use "Click here" for a hyperlink as not everyone
'click's on hyperlinks.