229847 - Ability to select any destination folder for manually marked junk mail

Status: NEW

(MailNews Core :: Filters, enhancement)

Description

[Joseph Kang]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031030
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031030

I initially thought it might be an error in the way the junk mail filter
configuration worked.  I found out after opening Bug 214782 that what I want
isn't possible with the current features of the filter.  

Part of my misperception on how I could configure the junk mail controls may
have come from how the Junk Mail controls configuration dialogue is worded. 
There are currently two options for how to deal with Junk mail: mail that's
automatically tagged and mail that is manually tagged.  Both options refer to a
"Junk" folder.  However, from my understanding, the "Junk" folder referred to is
the same.  If you specify that automatically tagged messages are sent to the
Trash folder, then all manually marked junk mail gets sent to the "Junk" folder
(in this case, the Trash folder).  I would like to be able to set up junk mail
filtering such that all automatically tagged junk mail gets placed into a folder
I specify (the Trash, for example), while manually tagged junk messages get
placed into another folder (the Junk folder, for example).

If this has been an already requested Enhancement, please feel free to close
this one and refer me to the existing one.

Thanks in advance for listening.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Set up junk mail controls to send automatically marked messages to Trash.
2. Set up junk mail controls to send manually tagged messages to the "Junk" folder.
3. Let mail handle incoming mail...

Actual Results:  
Automatically marked messages AND manually marked messages were all sent to the
trash.

Expected Results:  
Automatically marked messages would get sent to the Trash while manually tagged
messages would get sent to the folder "Junk"

Comment 1

[Joe Infla]

This is a bug, not enhancement.  When you set the junk filter as described, with
auto-marked mail to Trash and manually marked mail to Junk, manually marking a
message incorrectly sends it to the trash.  Confirmed on winxp, 1.6b.

Comment 2

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

Joseph Kang, if I was you, I would re-open Bug 214782 for too much confusing UI
in addition to keep this bug open.
I believe your confusion is not your fault.

Current implementation of folder choice for Junk control in Mozilla is probably
as follows.

(1) Automatic move settings for Junk Mail filter
    "mail.server.serverN.moveOnSpam = true" means this function is enabled.

(1-A)When "Junk folder on:" is choosed 
   as option for "Move incoming message determined to be junk mail to:",
   Mozilla resets mail.server.serverN.moveTargetMode(delete from prefs.js,=0),
   changes mail.server.serverN.spamActionTargetAccount (this is used), 
   does not change mail.server.serverN.spamActionTargetFolder(this is not used).

   Folder used as "Junk" is "Junk" folder under mail folder path specified
   in spamActionTargetAccount. 

(1-2)When ""Other:" is choosed 
   as option for "Move incoming message determined to be junk mail to:",
   Mozilla resets mail.server.serverN.moveTargetMode = 1,
   does not change mail.server.serverN.spamActionTargetAccount(this is notused), 
   changes change mail.server.serverN.spamActionTargetFolder(this is used).

   Folder used as "Junk" is the folder specified in spamActionTargetFolder. 

(2) Automatic move settings for Manual Junk marking
    "mail.server.serverN.manualMark = true" means this function is enabled.

(2-A) When "Move them to the 'Junk' folder" is choosed
      as option for "When I manually mark message as Junk:",
      Mozilla resets mail.server.serverN.manualMarkMode(delete from prefs.js,=0)

(2-B) When "Delete them" is choosed
      as option for "When I manually mark message as Junk:",
      Mozilla sets mail.server.serverN.manualMarkMode = 1
      (Since "delete", target folder is apparantly "Trash") 

As seen in (2-A), there is no way to specify target folder for manual Junk
marking, and folder used in (2-A) is folder determined by (1) instead of folder
named "Junk".
Word "the 'Junk'" in "Move them to the 'Junk' folder" in setting of "When I
manually mark message as Junk:" means folder determined by (1) instead of folder
named "Junk" as Bug 214782 says.

This user interface is confusing too much.
And this mechanism can not support your case.

To clarify relationship among settings and to support your case, I believe
improvements should be done, for example :
(1) Move folder selection under "Enable Junk mail control" option.
(2) Change "Move incoming message determined to be junk mail to:"
    to "When incoming messages are determined to be junk by Junk Filter:".
(3) Add options to "Move incoming message determined to be junk mail to:",
    same options for "When I manually mark message as Junk:".
     - "Move them to the 'Junk' folder"
     - "Delete them" (New option, not defined currently)
                     (This is required to sutisfy reporte's case)

Workaround for your case :
(1) Set "Junk" folder as the folder for automatic move by Junk filter instead of
"Trash".
(2) Enable automatic delete option for junk mail and set it to "1 day".
Although automatic deletion delays 1 day than your requirement, it is usually
not so big problem.

Comment 3

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

I disagree that this is not an enhancement request -- see bug 214782 comment 6 
for why I think the current behavior is expected -- altho the comments about the 
UI being overly confusing are valid.

I have to say, I don't understand the desire for the setup Joseph Kang is 
shooting for.  What purpose is served by setting aside mail that has been 
explicitly identified as Junk in a Junk folder, but sending autodetected junk to 
the Trash?  The autodetection is likely to make mistakes at least once in a 
while; a misidentified message sitting in the Trash is more likely to be deleted 
unexamined; whereas the mail in the Junk folder is presumed to be at least 
occasionally scanned for stuff that isn't actually junk.

The reason that the Junk Mail Controls offers an option for deleting 
manually-marked mail is because many people, having id'd something as junk, 
don't need to ever see it again.

Comment 4

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

I agree on Comment #3 From Mike Cowperthwaite.

Mike Cowperthwaite, can you agree on "re-opening Bug 214782 as enhancement bug
for confusing/misleading UI improvement"?

Comment 5

[Joe Infla]

I understand a bit better now why this was filed as enhancement, though I still
think the usage scenario identifies a bug in the text descriptions on the JMC
dialog.  If you change this bug (or the other) back to enhancement, I suggest a
summary and concise description emphasizing the desire to _choose arbitrary
folders_ for both auto-marked and manually marked junk mail, and each separately.  

The one value I can see in the specific usage scenario of comment 0 is the
ability to (theoretically) recreate an exact duplicate training.dat file by
marking all and only files in the Junk folder as junk.  Unless there's some
other compelling reason, this would probably be a low priority enhancement request.

Comment 6

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

Regarding the general messiness of the UI for JMC, see bug 205883.  There is an 
official spec, which Mozilla does not quite follow; and a Thunderbird 
in-progress spec.  I don't know who owns Moz specs these days or how they can be 
updated, but I think specific suggestions for changes to the spec could be 
posted in that bug; maybe Scott M. will integrate them into the TB spec.

I will post there with the main issue from this bug, regarding the wording of 
the Manually Marked as Junk option.

Comment 7

[Joseph Kang]

In reply to <a
href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229847#c3">Comment #3</a>, I
realize that there seems to be no logical reason for why I want to configure the
filtering in this manner.  I guess, the only answer I can give is that it's my
own quirky way of handling the junk e-mail I receive.

I am confused at this point, however.  Am I being asked to re-open 214782 and
change the problem description to one about the confusing nature of the wording
in the JMC UI or close this enhancement request and reference 205883?

Thanks again for your time and attention.  This is the first time I've reported
any sort of issue to the Mozilla community and I am very pleased by the
timeliness of the responses I've received!

Comment 8

[Joe Infla]

I'm changing this back to enhancement and leaving the other closed.  As I
understand it now, this bug will request adding the ability to select any
destination folder for manually marked junk, independent of the designated "junk
folder" destination for auto-marked junk.
Old summary: I would like more flexible junk mail filtering configurations

The misleading/vague wording of the JMC should be addressed in bug 205883.

Comment 9

[The Anarcat]

I think this is not such a remote feature enhancement. Let me tell you how I use
junk mail controls....

My ISP filters mail automatically and sends it to my "greyspam" folder, for
verification. Once it is there, I can confirm it is spam by moving it to the
"junk" folder, which is considered "foolproof-confirmed-and-reread" spam,
suitable for learning.

When I mark mail as spam, I do not want it to be moved to my "greyspam" folder,
since that it "unconfirmed spam". When I manually mark mail as spam, I am
explicitely sure that the mail *is* spam. So it should go in the "junk" folder,
for latter learning.

However, when Mozilla automatically "thinks" mail is spam, it shouldn't send it
automatically to the "junk" folder, but to the "greyspam" folder, so I can
review its decisions.

Therefore, I really need to have two target folders: one "confirmed spam" folder
(my "junk" folder) and one "unconfirmed spam" folder (my "greyspam" folder).

Do I make any sense?

Comment 10

[Howard Chu]

Marking dependency on bug 223591. When the spam filters and regular filters are
unified, you will be able to organize your filters to achieve what you describe
here.

Comment 11

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

sorry for the spam.  making bugzilla reflect reality as I'm not working on these bugs.  filter on FOOBARCHEESE to remove these in bulk.

Comment 12

[Serge Gautherie (:sgautherie)]

Filter on "Nobody_NScomTLD_20080620"

Comment 13

[klonos]

I keep a collection of all junk mail from all my accounts, so I can feed the spamassassin filter each time I build a new server.

I want to be able to do some statistics and categorize spam (scams, pills/drugs/viagra, porn/profanity, casino/games, sex toys/enhancements etc.). So, I have my own spam/junk folder -I call it Spambox ;)- and all spam goes there, placed in subfolders for each domain I have (for some domains I have more than one accounts). I try to keep all folders with as few messages as possible for performance sake, so in my main Spambox folder, for each domain/server's subfolder, I have subfolders of each year (2009, 2008, 2007 ...) and because they too get pretty large, I create subfolders in them splitting the years in quarters (Q1, Q2, Q3 & Q4).

What I'd like to see implemented someday is:

1. User being able to define a custom folder (and all or some of its subfolders) as junk mail folder.

2. If more subfolders are added under such a folder, the user should be asked if this folder is to contain junk mail as well, or normal mail.

3. Mail manually marked as spam/junk should follow some filters and place the mail in corresponding folder defined in these filters (this could also apply to junk detected by tb automatically).

4. A 'Create new folder & copy/move mail in it' filter action. Hopefully someday (once perhaps regular expression support and 'if/then/else' or 'case of' support is added to filters), mail that is marked as junk will also be able to:

- trigger the creation of a folder (based on the year/month of receipt in the above case, but it could be whatever token from the mail's header/properties).
- set its property to 'junk mail folder' and move junk mail in it.