243396 - Impossible to apply for account using Mozilla

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Tech Evangelism Graveyard :: English Other, defect)

Description

[Jean Jordaan]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030731
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030731

At the "Choose your line of credit" page, submission returns you 
to the same page. 

I'm including correspondence with 20twenty's staff below. They 
misguidedly believe that Mozilla doesn't support 128-bit encryption.

Reproducible: Always
Steps to Reproduce:
1.
2.
3.

Actual Results:  
Saw the current page again, with a "choose" message

Expected Results:  
Proceeded to the next page

Hi Jean,

Thank you for your email. 

One of the many ways we keep your money safe is through encryption
on our website. This involves us scrambling data, which prevents
a non-authorised party from reading, using or changing your information.
The higher the encryption, the safer your banking experience.

Our systems are not compatible with Mozilla at the moment but
our techies are working on that.

But IE 5.5 and 6 allow for 128-bit encryption, which facilitates
greater security and is the global encryption standard. 
 
So we've decided that to continue offering the safest banking
possible, all 20twenty customers will need to bank using 128-
bit encryption only. In other words, you'll need Internet Explorer
5.5 or 6.

If you need to upgrade, Go to http:
//www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/ie6sp1/download.asp
and follow the instructions. Depending on your internet connection,
this download could take some time. So you might prefer to do
it over a weekend or early one morning, when the net is generally
quieter.

We apologise if this seems like an unnecessary inconvenience.
But to keep your money even safer, we believe that this is a
necessary step.

As always, if you have any questions, call a Wired Warrior on
0860 00 2020 or 021 481 7600 anytime. Or mail us at [e-mail].

Kind Regards,

Evelyn
Wired Warrior and 20twenty customer.

>>  Hi there
>> 
>> On 04/19/2004 I received the "Our doors are wide open" mail from you,
>> and promptly tried to apply. You`ll notice on your computer systems that my
>> application-in-progress dates from then. It`s plain sailing up to the "Your line
>> of credit offer" page, but selecting *any* of the offers and clicking [submit]
>> just lands me back at the same page. I replied to the invitation email, but
>> apparently it doesn`t go to a mailbox that`s read. I received a reminder today
>> (with Michelle Moller`s name under it), but the application procedure still
>> hangs at the same place. I`ll reply to that mail as well, to see if it reaches
>> anyone :) I`m using Mozilla as browser --- that`s the /standards compliant/
>> browser ..

Comment 1

[Jean Jordaan]

Some more correspondence:

> We needed to set parameters within which to offer this account.

Understood, you can hardly do otherwise ..

> After much research and deliberation, we decided to go with IE.

Did you consider going with rigorous adherence to *web standards*,
instead of going with a specific browser implementation? Are you
testing with all the IE service packs from 5.5, on all the OSs on
which it runs? (From W95 to Mac?)

Is any of this research publically accessible? It would be
most interesting to see the reasons for your decision, and it
would help me to provide corrections (such as the fact that Moz
does offer 128-bit encryption) and references, if I notice any
errors.

> We realize that every person has their own opinion regarding
> which browser if best [or worst], and it's impossible to satisfy
> all of the people all of the time.

With respect, this is definately not simply a matter of opinion.
That Moz does offer 128-bit encryption is a fact, and that IE
has a scandalous history of security vulnerabilities is a fact.
Adherence to web standards is also not a matter of opinion. There
are online validators such as http://validator.w3.org/ that will
tell you exactly whether your pages conform or not. If they do
conform, then conformant browsers will work with those pages.
This is also not a matter of opinion.

I fully agree that constructing a standards-based site that
takes into account the level of browser conformance is a
challenge, but it's been done, and that is exactly the challenge
that you as premier online bank should rush to meet. If you do,
your users will be free to indulge their opinions, informed by
their judgement and experience, when choosing their own browser.

Comment 2

[Jean Jordaan]

Some more correspondence --- looks like a good resolution is at hand :)

-------------------------------------

'lo Warriors

I mentioned your policy to my brother, a designer with clients
such as Unilever, Marks & Spencer and the Bank of Scotland. His
response (paraphrased) follows:

"""
Their stance is sadly in contrast to their "with it" image.

It's probably their developers telling them tall stories. They
don't seem to be familiar with web standards (*what* they are,
never mind *why* you should follow them), they don't want to
change their '90s coding practices, and fear other browsers
because they break their sites. Therefore they put their heads
in the sand, and with reassurances such as IE's 90+% market
share and "nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft", they
baffle their managers with 128-bit encryption jargon as official
excuse.

In my experience, online banks are some of the worst offenders
in this regard. If you're interested, the best one regarding
accessibility and standards is Nationwide:
http://www.nationwide.co.uk/
http://www.nationwide.co.uk/banking/internet-banking/

Here are their browser specs:
http://www.nationwide.co.uk/Security_and_access/access.asp?state=2#PC_MAC

Here are some articles and references putting the case for web
standards, and providing case studies:

http://www.maccaws.org/kit/primer/
http://www.maccaws.org/kit/way-forward/

http://www.webstandards.org/learn/faq/
http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000266.php
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/
http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/
http://www.hesketh.com/publications/value_of_standards_for_web_design/
"""

-------------------------------------

Good morning Jean,

It seems you've created quite a stir on our side! I've received
your previous mail [you'll be here the sec Mozilla is okay],
and look forward to welcoming you aboard.

We'll certainly keep you informed of all developments here [Josh
has sent all of your info to our techie guys].

Have a great weekend.

[...]

Kind Regards
Amanda 

Comment 3

[Bernard Alleysson]

confirming based on comments

Comment 4

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc]

It looks ok to me, -> fixed