Closed Bug 262537 Opened 17 years ago Closed 17 years ago
Tabs opened from left click and from external applications should always open in foreground
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041001 Firefox/0.10 Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041001 Firefox/0.10 If links that open new windows are set to open new tabs instead, and new tabs are set to open in background, left-clicking links might open them in background. Although the settings' wording explains that perfectly, I believe left click should NEVER open things in background. This is very confusing - especially if you don't expect that. It looks like your click is being ignored. If someone left-clicked, he wants to follow the link right now. If he wanted to open it in the background, he would middle click. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Set a perfectly reasonable configuration: tabs open in background, new tabs open for _blank tagrets 2. Find a link with tagret="_blank". Click to follow. Actual Results: You don't follow the link. Something happens (we know what) but you aren't following the link. Expected Results: The link should open before your eyes, just like for the other two options (same tab, new window) and just like in other browsers. Sometimes, a person who never used FF before sits before my computer. Until now, he never saw a difference (wasn't using it too much) - browsing was just like before. Right now, I expect these persons to get stuck at first _blank link they encounter (and no, I'm not changing my favorite configuration for them...)
Same here. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041001 Firefox/0.10 This is also a problem when opening links from external applications. The browser window is brought to front, but the tab is opened in background, makes absolutely no sense to me. In my opinion either the "Select new tabs opened from links" option should affect middle(CTRL)-clicked links only, or there should be another option that applies to new tabs opened by code from bug 172962, default should be
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Severity: normal → enhancement
OS: Windows 2000 → All
Hardware: PC → All
Summary: left click should not open tabs in background → Firefox should have an option to open middle clicks in background tab, left clicks in foreground
There was some discussion here. Some people say that this should be an enhancement request for a new option. That would indeed work, but my personal opinion is that the way it is now is pretty useless. No need for another option, IMHO. There's also a problem with localization freeze. The best solution I see is to automaticaly "select" (brrr, focus. focus! /off topic) tabs opened with left click, and change the options string from: - "a new tab in most recent window" + "a new foreground tab (/selected tab) in most recent window" But there's the obvious problem of strings being frozen. I still think new tabs opened this way should be "selected" even if strings, when taken literally, say something slightly different.
Changing summary (again) as explained in Comment #2. I'm open for discussions about it, of course.
Severity: enhancement → normal
Summary: Firefox should have an option to open middle clicks in background tab, left clicks in foreground → Tabs opened from left click and from external applications should always open in foreground
Say you already have Firefox open and minimized, and you have it set to open all links in a new tab (one of the new tab behavior options recently added). I personally don't want more than one Firefox window running on my system unless I SPECIFICALLY open another one WITHIN Firefox. So, If I doubleclick on my desktop shortcut to Firefox, or click on the Quick Launch toolbar link, my prefered behavior would be to have the minimized Firefox window popup into focus, and have a new tab opened within it, also in focus, and not have a new Firefox window opened. My current partial solution is to replace all my Firefox shortcuts with .url files linked to my homepage. Using this, I can at least get everything always opened in the same window as tabs. Doing it this way, the minimized Firefox window WILL pop up into focus, but the new tab still WON'T, because I don't use the option to "Select tabs opened from links" (because in any other case, I WOULDN'T want a new tab to steal focus.) By fixing this bug, it would solve my problem, because the "Select tabs opened from links" option only applies to me when I use my middle click, as well. I would actually like to add a more complete alternate solution to the external link problem that would allow for more configurability. We should make another "Select tabs" case called "Select tabs opened by external programs", and place it only in about:config, and on by default. I know you are thinking that there is no situation where an external program or .url link is clicked on that one WOULDN'T want focus to shift to this new tab, but take the situation where someone is using their external program (say a text editor with url support) RIGHT NEXT to their Firefox window to edit their webpage frames. They may not want the current page to change by the other clicked links stealing focus in new tabs, because they are refering back to and from the top page frameset. By deselecting this option for a session this would save them some time and effort. It would later be even more handy if the often talked about "Always on top" and "Never on top" options are ever added to the Firefox View menu, because then a user could open external program links in background tabs, while refering the entire time to the current tab, while never losing focus of the program they are working in. Btw, is there an enhancement request for having "Always on top" and a "Never on top" options in the View menu? Here is some more external link bugy behavior: When Firefox is minimized, clicked on .htm files DON'T bring Firefox into focus, but clicked on .url files DO. Unless they give us options to control Firefox focus situations, case by case, program by program, filetype by filetype, then ALL external links (.url, .htm, and other programs) should be handled the same way (which is what this bug report requests, to by default always bring Firefox into focus, AND bring the clicked on content into focus when opening external links).
Under "Tools > Options > Advanced > Tabbed Browsing", there is an option that could be changed (rather than adding a new option) that would help solve this (if the back-end code was added also): *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks or history* ... could become ... *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks, history or external applications* Just an idea and this may need a little tweaking to get right / easy to understand for the user.
(In reply to comment #5) > Under "Tools > Options > Advanced > Tabbed Browsing", there is an option that > could be changed (rather than adding a new option) that would help solve this > (if the back-end code was added also): > > *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks or history* ... could become ... > *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks, history or external applications* > > Just an idea and this may need a little tweaking to get right / easy to > understand for the user. That makes total sense. I think that everyone wants their bookmarks, history, AND external applications to by default open with focus. If they needed to use an external app temporarily, they could disable that option. Let me add to your idea. To completely fix the issue, we should just have two sets of options. Any more simplification and it just gets too complicated. Left Click: *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks, history or external applications* Default True *Select new tabs from links* Default True Open in new tab (Middle Click): *Select new tabs opened from bookmarks or history* Default False *Select new tabs from links* Default False
I think using a wording like "Open new tabs from bookmarks, history or external applications in the foreground" would be better since "select" (or even "focus") isn't terribly clear if you don't already know what the options do. You might even use "in the background" and reverse what the option does.
Unless I'm mistaken, changing any text means this cannot happen for 1.0.... there was a localization freeze, no? Personally, I don't mind a small number of new windows - sometimes they annoy me, but not always. However, opening things from other applications... I would prefer in a tab. If this tab were not focused by default, I would be very confused. It seems everyone agrees on this point - tabs opened from programs should be focused by default, but there should be an option to change this (because there are those who would want it otherwise.) I think the suggestion to use the bookmarks pref made much in the way of sense, since by default new tabs from bookmarks are selected. However, without changing this text... it might be a bit confusing. That means that other locales will be confused, whether the text is changed for English or not, and so it may not really work. However, I'd like to say that I would very much like to see this changed for 1.0 final. As I've now said a few times, this probably means no text changes. In that case, why not a new pref? Or perhaps, no pref for 1.0? Just think of it this way. My grandma doesn't really know how to use tabs.... so if this feature accidentally got turned on for her, she might get quite confused. So, let's say she clicked some link, which said "click here and my site will open in a new window".... and nothing happened. Well, my grandma would probably call me, and tell me her browser was broken. No new window. She'd not notice the tabs at all, and just get confused. Now, let's say the default was the other way. She'd click it, and it would open. When she was done, she'd hit x, and get a message about more than one tab open. Being that my grandma isn't stupid, she'd probably get an inkling about what tabs are at this point. Thus, it would promote discoverability, without much (or possibly any) confusion. Please, change this - for grandma. -[Unknown]
Exactly. Even if we don't get the options to configure alternatives in 1.0, at least the backend code setting the defaults should be fixed for 1.0.
The fix for opening tabs from external applications seems fo be very simple. It was attachment 159442 [details] [diff] [review] that added the code. This diff says: + if (!gPrefService.getBoolPref("browser.tabs.loadInBackground")) + gBrowser.selectedTab = newTab; ie it checks for the preference. No reason to do this (in fact, it's a bug), just remove the 1st line. Can someone make a diff for that? The code for left click was added as attachment 159443 [details] [diff] [review] . This time, I don't see this code checking for the preference. I sure hope it won't be difficult to change... I'm CCing the author of both patches: Dan M, I hope you don't mind, but it's an annoying bug :(
I agree that this is the correct approach. We can add additional options for power users later.
Another solution is to land this patch and remove the “select” options. I hate to say this, but I tend to like this option, as it will not result in a string change. Most users probably won’t miss the fact that tabs can load in the background (majority are coming from window based browsing where you can’t really load windows in the background) and right now the wording is confusing. Of course this will anger some users (please note: I too like the prefs), but this would be a perfect time for an extension to step up and fill the void. Remember, it will still be a settable pref in about:config and we can easily add it back after Firefox 1.0. I also want to point out that it’s trivial to add a pref to regulate whether links loaded from left click/external applications load in the background.
(In reply to comment #12) > Another solution is to land this patch and remove the “select” options. I hate > to say this, but I tend to like this option, as it will not result in a string > change. Most users probably won’t miss the fact that tabs can load in the > background (majority are coming from window based browsing where you can’t > really load windows in the background) and right now the wording is confusing. > Of course this will anger some users (please note: I too like the prefs), but > this would be a perfect time for an extension to step up and fill the void. > Remember, it will still be a settable pref in about:config and we can easily add > it back after Firefox 1.0. I disagree. I've used Firefox for a while, and I have liked that the middle mouse button popped up links without focusing/selecting/switching to them since day one. I never ever wanted to change that. But some do. In fact, a lot do - including my brother. When I told him there was an option to change it, he said "wow, that's great" and asked me where... since then, he's stopped using Internet Explorer and actually started using tabs. (before, he had still sometimes used IE, and never used tabs.) To me, middle click is logically a "open this and keep doing stuff here" type button. It makes sense to me that way, because it doesn't quite feel like an action button. One of the biggest things about Firefox is tabbed browsing, and saying that it should not have this option just because most people don't come from using tabbed browsing.... does not float the boat for me :P. Some countries aren't democracies, does that mean America should do away with voting? Immigrants won't notice the difference. Yes, you're saying "keep the pref, just remove the option"... but I'm saying that's not even enough. If you remove the option... you're essentially making it so it's not a feature of Firefox. My grandma definitely doesn't know how to use about:config, but she might like the tabs opening out-of-focus if she learned to use the middle mouse button. And I certainly hope you don't mean to remove the option and make the default open in focus - then, this new feature that *caused* this bug would be in vain... left clicking would be the same as middle clicking... what a waste of a good button. -[Unknown]
(In reply to comment #12) > Most users probably won’t miss the fact that tabs can load in the > background (majority are coming from window based browsing where you can’t > really load windows in the background) And a minority come from other OSes where such functionality may be possible. I use Linux and TBP, and I always set it up to load internal and external tabs unfocused. Anything covering up what I'm reading is anathaema. > Of course this will anger some users (please note: I too like the prefs), but > this would be a perfect time for an extension to step up and fill the void. > Remember, it will still be a settable pref in about:config and we can easily add > it back after Firefox 1.0. I also happen to be the maintainer of TBP and this is something I've offered for some time ;-) > I also want to point out that it’s trivial to add a pref to regulate whether > links loaded from left click/external applications load in the background. Why add another pref? Just keep the existing one for left-click links, and add new meanings to browser.link.external (IIRC). The way I did it with the equivalent TBP pref, extensions.tabprefs.externalLinkTarget, was: 0 - New window. 1 - New tab in current (recent) window, focused. 2 - Current tab in current (recent) window. 3 - New tab in current (recent) window, unfocused. Obviously, something like this would need a string thaw after 1.0, but it an be easily done.
Ok guys, I have always wanted the prefs to stay in the options window. With that said, IF this patch lands (or something similar), than the current wording of the options clearly become even more problematic. When a user can’t even figure out what the options mean in the first place, then there is no point for the options to be there. If the devs approve new strings, than I am more than happy to withdraw my suggestion. Otherwise, I don’t think leaving in the strings as they are is a good idea -> they are too confusing. When the localization freeze ends, the strings can be corrected and the options added back. (In reply to comment #14) > Why add another pref? Just keep the existing one for left-click links, and add > new meanings to browser.link.external (IIRC). The way I did it with the > equivalent TBP pref, extensions.tabprefs.externalLinkTarget, was: > > 0 - New window. > 1 - New tab in current (recent) window, focused. > 2 - Current tab in current (recent) window. > 3 - New tab in current (recent) window, unfocused. Easily done. If browser.link.open_newwindow and browser.link.open_external = 3 open tab in focus = 4 open tab in background. Also, I was thinking of TBP when I asked for an extension to step up.
Actually the patch that we have now only affects links opened from external applications. It's pretty clear that a setting called "select tabs opened from links" just doesn't apply at all. This setting is just irrelevant in this situation. The bigger problem is with the left click, since it really is a "tab opened from link". I, however, strongly suggest to fix this bug and ignore the minor wording inconstancy. I don't believe that anyone ever wanted the current behaviour, and extra wording inconstancy is a small price to pay. As for the "select" being totally confusing, I couldn't agree more. Whenever I read this I'm sure the browser wants me to select something (as in "select this option")
(In reply to comment #16) > Actually the patch that we have now only affects links opened from external > applications. It's pretty clear that a setting called "select tabs opened from > links" just doesn't apply at all. This setting is just irrelevant in this situation. The attached patch does affect left clicks, not just external links. To have only external links take focus all the time we want: if (!gPrefService.getBoolPref("browser.tabs.loadInBackground") && aContext != nsCI.nsIBrowserDOMWindow.OPEN_EXTERNAL) gBrowser.selectedTab = newTab; We should probably take this debate to mozillazine instead of spamming bugzilla. Once a dev weighs in, I/or someone else can post a patch and get this fixed.
Attachment #160898 - Flags: review-
Danm, I want to thank you for your work in getting better tab settings in Firefox. You did an awesome job. I really never thought that the patch should go in as is, just posted because of a request. (In reply to comment #18) > I'm unswayed by Grandmother Arguments about the undiscoverability of tabs > loading in the background, because the user has to explicitly set them up to > load in the background. The default is for new tabs to gain focus. Actually, to the best of my knowledge, new tabs load in the background by default (from firefox.js). This can be confusing behavior especially if the user is not aware of how tabs exactly work. Now that I have had time to think about it, I think there should really be 2-4 prefs here: 1) Whether to focus tabs from links explicitly chosen to open in tabs (this would be middle clicking, "open in tab", and alt enter). 2) Whether to focus tabs from links explicitly chosen to open in tabs from bookmarks and history. This could be rolled into 1 as both actions require a middle click. 3) Whether to focus tabs opened by direct user action that results in a new tab (this would be from left click or opened from external application). 4) Whether to focus tabs opened without user interaction (ie. timer based pop-ups). This pref could be rolled up into 2, for now, as the user has to allow the pop-up in the first place and I assume most users don't allow a lot of pop-ups from timers. For the short term, we could allow the generic open tab option to cover cases 3+4 and the bookmarks/history option to regulate case 2. Case 1 would be available through about:config or extensions, as Unknown argued that most users will use middle click to open links they want to look at later, otherwise, they can just use left click and the back button to transition between the two sites. This isn't perfect, either, but it allows for users to have all links open unfocused (as Bradley argued for) and I think it makes the most logical sense. Personally, this makes me happy since I want 1+2 in the background, 3 in the foreground, and 4 doesn't impact me. Furthermore, this matches the current wording better since the new tab options and the old options use the terms "opened from links" and "open links”. This also is in agreement with the shortcut section of the Firefox Help files.
Implement what I just stated. This is a very simple three line fix, does not effect localization, and does not change the meaning of any prefs. This is only a short-term fix, after Firefox 1.0 we can go back and fix this properly.
Attachment #160898 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Comment on attachment 160985 [details] [diff] [review] short term fix DanM, does this meet with your approval? I think most users will want to change whether diverted links open in the background, rather than tabs resulting from middle clicks. Also, you can still use the options window to have all your tabs open in the background, which you requested. I wanted to ask for your review, but I am not sure what address you use.
Attachment #160985 - Flags: review?
(In reply to comment #18) > (From update of attachment 160898 [details] [diff] [review]) > *Always* in the foreground? Despite opinions to the contrary using strong words > like "broken" and "useless," Bradley and I don't want tabs to *always* load in > the foreground. And we get to win. As long as he agrees with me :). I'm r-ing > this patch. This bug should be renamed to "New windows that are forced to opened in tabs by "Single Window Mode" should have their own focus rules". The current wording is scaring away DanM. :) What we are saying to do here for 1.0 is when using the new "Single Window Mode", make the situations where links that would normally open in a new window but are now forced to open via tabs NOT be controlled by the "Select tabs opened from links" option. You are right, the Grandmother argument doesn't fly, because the Grandmother wouldn't even be turning on the new "Single Window Mode", and even if she just touched that, these windows would STILL open in focus. But that isn't the bug here, actually. The bug here is when we turn on the recently added Single Window Mode option AND turn off the "Select tabs opened from links" option. This new mode was inadvertantly coded to have it's *special case* of forcing normally NEW WINDOWS to open as NEW TABS, but STILL have them controlled by the same options as normal tabs. This shouldn't be, because these new tabs fall into a special case. The key here is to think of these tabs as new windows that would normally pop up into focus. Now they are being forced to become tabs, but they should still act in every other way as if they were new windows popping up. The whole point from the beginning of the "Select tabs opened from links" was so that we could middle click on links and have them open behind what we were reading. This option is not meant to have any affect on the new "Single Window Mode", and it is actually detracting from it. We should not have to have one option selected to have another option work properly, and it even just goes against logic to have this special case fall under the control of an option not meant for them. Later on we can add settings to control this special case of tabs taking focus or not. But at the moment, HARDCORE users aren't able to use the new Single Window Mode AND have their middle clicked links open in the background, and that is annoying.
(In reply to comment #22) > (In reply to comment #18) > > (From update of attachment 160898 [details] [diff] [review]) > > *Always* in the foreground? Despite opinions to the contrary using strong words > > like "broken" and "useless," Bradley and I don't want tabs to *always* load in > > the foreground. And we get to win. As long as he agrees with me :). I'm r-ing > > this patch. I still agree with you danm, but this comment is worth considering. > > This bug should be renamed to "New windows that are forced to opened in tabs by > "Single Window Mode" should have their own focus rules". The current wording is > scaring away DanM. :) <snip long and interesting justification for bug renaming> Agreed. New windows forced into tabs are special-cased and shouldn't be controlled using the same controls. The problem now is how to adequately address this, using either patches to Fx after aviary-1.0 or using TBP.
Because, from the above comments, I assumed I was going nuts... I downloaded the latest nightly and created a completely clean profile. Select tabs opened from links is, by default, unchecked. This means they will load in the background, without focus, as I suggested. As I thought, aftering turning just this one option (Force links that open new windows to open in -> a new tab) they loaded in the background. Indeed, the same thing happened when I turned on "Open links from other applications in" -> "a new tab of the most recent window". This is what I'm arguing against. I would very much prefer the default be kept as unfocused for middle-clicking, but if this is not an option I would prefer that the default for "Select tabs opened from links" be changed to on. So I'm not crazy. The default really is what I thought, and said, it is. So my Grandmother argument... I've known grandmas who touched settings like "single window mode", and didn't change other options (they didn't understand what meant) like the highly confusing "Select tabs opened from links". -[Unknown]
Comment on attachment 160985 [details] [diff] [review] short term fix Ugh yes, Firefox does load middle-click tabs in the background by default. I forgot that Firefox and Sunbird for some reason override the default application setting. So the Grandmother Argument is back. Nevertheless, this patch won't fly, either. It removes from the UI the ability to control middle-click tab focus. We can't change functionality at this point. Agreed, we need to reconsider the UI after the UI freeze. And that my example of timer window.open was extreme. This morning I think the solution is to leave the control of left-click tab focus in the hands of the loadInBackground pref as it currently stands, but allow Jim's new loadDivertedInBackground pref to override that setting if it exists. That seems to me to afford the least surprise to a mid-level user reading the text of the Options dialog, while giving a power user the ability to fine-tune, and extensions a hook for a more complete UI.
Attachment #160985 - Flags: review? → review-
(In reply to comment #24) > Because, from the above comments, I assumed I was going nuts... I downloaded the > latest nightly and created a completely clean profile. > > Select tabs opened from links is, by default, unchecked. This means they will > load in the background, without focus, as I suggested. Yes, sorry about this, I just noticed today that you were right about the default setting of this option being off as well. So both your grandmother argument, and my argument fly. Double the pleasure, double the fun. To fix this bug in the short term, can't we just alter the new "Single Window Mode" coding to act on its own focus settings? Later we can add options to allow user configurability of the special case tabs. Or is this not possible? Is that what you are saying here in the following? > This morning I think the solution is to leave the control of left-click tab > focus in the hands of the loadInBackground pref as it currently stands, but > allow Jim's new loadDivertedInBackground pref to override that setting if it > exists. That seems to me to afford the least surprise to a mid-level user > reading the text of the Options dialog, while giving a power user the ability > to fine-tune, and extensions a hook for a more complete UI.
I can live with that. By default, the browser.tabs.loadInBackground pref regulates middle clicked links and diverted windows. Creating the pref browser.tabs.loadDivertedInBackground allows the user to fine tune whether diverted windows open in focus - independent of the middle click link pref. Extensions and power users can easily set this pref. As for the discoverability problem, I think, for now with this solution, we can leave browser.tabs.loadInBackground set to true by default. If a user is willing to go into the options menu (the Advanced section) and change the new tab options, that user is probably going to notice when a tab is loaded in the background (its pretty obvious considering we hide the tab bar by default). This also keeps functionality the same from 1.0PR to 1.0.
Attachment #160985 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Comment on attachment 161088 [details] [diff] [review] new hidden pref for left-click tabs I think it's good. Ben? Whaddayasay? I've asked for sr= but really I intend a directed a=?. Abridged version, or this entire bug in five sentences: This establishes yet another pref for tuning what kind of tab gets focus when opened, or doesn't. The argument is that tabs opened on left-click, such as the ones coming out of bug 172962, would fain be focused when opened, while those tabs opened on middle-click, such as the ones we've had for a long time now, would not. Currently we use the extant middle-click pref and UI for both middle- and left-click tabs. This patch uses a new left-click pref if it exists and falls back to the middle-click pref, the one with a UI, if not. Yet another checkbox in a future version of the Tabbed Browsing dialog is implied. If we decide this is a good path to take, we should also consider renaming the prefs before 1.0 to fit their true usage. The generically named loadInBackground pref really applies only to middle-click tabs, which are fast becoming only a subset of the tabbed world.
Attachment #161088 - Attachment description: short term fix v2 → new hidden pref for left-click tabs
(In reply to comment #28) > (From update of attachment 161088 [details] [diff] [review]) > I think it's good. I think it's good too. And providing a fallback to the old pref also allows for seamless behavioural transitions later on.
Flags: blocking-aviary1.0? → blocking-aviary1.0+
I agree with the original report... you might like a hidden pref for this but I think focusing the new tab should be the default. Ditto for links coming in from other applications... i.e. if I set "new tab" for either the "from links targeting _blank" or "from other applications" prefs, then I think the behavior should be to show the new tab by *default* not load it in the background... why? because I've had the pref set this way for the past few days and it's really annoying to click a link in mail or IRC and have it load in the background only to have to click it to the front. What does this patch do, exactly? Can it be made to make focus-tab the *default* behavior?
Yes, Ben it can - with slight modification. Look at the patch above it, "short term fix." If you ignore the changes to the options window (I assume you wouldn't want this in the UI), the patch will make all diverted links (window.open, external, and target _blank) load in the foreground, by default, and creates a pref called browser.tabs.loadDivertedInBackground that can regulate the focus of diverted links.
This patch will cause diverted links to load in the foreground by default. To change this, set browser.tabs.loadDivertedInBackground to true. This is the previous patch without the fallback. Although this patch is fine as is, I strongly suggest, if we go this route, we update the tab options to something like: [X] Select new tabs opened from links [X] Select new tabs opened from external applications or forced links [X] Select new tabs opened from bookmarks or history This change keeps the behavior consistent with the previous releases, but does have a l10 impact. Ben, what do you think?
The load in background from external applications option is somewhat useless I imagine to most people... I'm not approving adding any more UI to what we have now when we're probably going to try and compress what we have in the future. about:config is suitable as a editing tool for now.
Alright Ben it seems an important shift in tab functionality has blindsided us. Given that we can't add more UI now even if we wanted to, in fact we can't even change wording, the question on my mind is what should a user expect from a prefs dialog that asks the question [ ] Select new tabs opened from links Is our user expecting this setting to affect these tabs mentioned just 1 cm up in the same dialog [ ] Force links that open new windows to open in: ( ) a new tab or is our user expecting this pref to affect tabs opened by middle-clicking; a hidden pref in Firefox? Hmmmm. It seems to me that we should shift the generically named browser.tabs.loadInBackground pref over to left-click and external-URL duty and invent a new hidden pref for dealing with the (now) less visible middle-click tabs. All you gotta do then to make the external-URL default the way you want it is remove the Firefox override. >The load in background from external applications option is somewhat useless I >imagine to most people. Not so, though I have no good idea of what "most" is. The linux crowd especially seems to resent focus theft. See for example bug 172962 comment 89 point 3 and bug 262978. Personally I agree with the former and the latter, though to my eye appears to argue just the opposite, is actually asking that the window remain in the background (see bug 262978 comment 3). This is complicated by the fact that the external URL and diverted left-click tabs aren't quite the same thing, but we've never considered giving them separate focus prefs. -- As an aside perhaps it's time to mention I've already heard one user complain: "I set links to open in new tabs but it's inconsistent. Sometimes I get a new tab, sometimes it opens in the same window." So there's a third link expectation group out there. In order from oldest to newest: 1) Do whatever the webpage says. Open a new window, replace my current page, knock yourself out. 2) Generally replace my current page but whatever you do, don't give me another window, even if that's what the website wants. 3) Leave my current page alone. #3 seems impractical for long-term use. But unable to see the page source and not wanting to either, how is a common user supposed to know what to expect when clicking a link? I can understand the claim of inconsistency.
Dan M., in my opinion you are mistaken is assuming that everyone will turn this "single-window mode" on. If I have it off, which I plan to except perhaps for external links, the middle click action will remain the only way to get a link into a tab (besides dragging it into the tab bar) so it seems to me that middle-clicking will still be in use, and that some people may want to use it to have tabs open with or without focus. I would argue that since, previous to this, you could not have new windows open without focus... it's better to take a small step and annoy those who wanted you to step farther, than to take such a big step you annoy those who didn't expect you to move. My meaning is that it's better to stay closer to the original functionality, again in my opinion, and that is having new windows (whether they are "diverted" into tabs or not) always have focus (except with a pref.) Forgive me if I'm too forward. Now, I use middle-clicking a lot. And it may surprise you to know that at one point, for several months, I did not know the function of middle-clicking. But I still opened tabs. It is easy to forget that you can right click a link and choose "Open Link in New Tab" - something I did often before I found out you could middle-click. People will still right click. That is the discoverability. Seeing that option was my first introduction into how to open tabs and even tabbed browsing. I didn't know about ANY options before then. I would argue that people WILL know about tabs, in many cases, when they set the options in the preferences dialog. Of course, I would also say the name for the pref that controls focus of new tabs (and everyone agrees on this, largely, it's just nearly impossible to fix) is horribly confusing. You say that having it not affect "diverted" links will confuse people... I say, we don't even need it to do anything with diverted links to confuse people. I hardly think it will help or hurt people whether diverted links are focused either way or not - that option's label means nothing to me... and I'm a programmer! It won't mean anything to most people, imho. And... if mostly Linux people will want to change the pref... so be it. My grandmother does not use Linux, nor will she be using about:config. Linux users, however, are several flights more likely to use about:config. Lastly, I think the "option #3" you mentioned a bit strange. You can go to Properties... on links and find what they will open in. It is the website designer's job to make the site usable, even use a css style like a[target] or something to color them different if neccessary... but it's not the browser's. If someone really wants that option, I can't imagine why an extension couldn't solve their need... anything otherwise would be bloat, imho. -[Unknown]
(In reply to comment #35) > Is our user expecting this setting to affect these tabs mentioned just 1 cm up > in the same dialog or is our user expecting this pref to affect tabs opened by > middle-clicking; a hidden pref in Firefox? Hmmmm. I saw the same potential confusion and my solution is the second attached patch. The problem, of course, is that this is inconsistent with previous builds, as we have now changed the meaning of the option. > It seems to me that we should shift the generically named > browser.tabs.loadInBackground pref over to left-click and external-URL duty and > invent a new hidden pref for dealing with the (now) less visible middle-click > tabs. All you gotta do then to make the external-URL default the way you want it > is remove the Firefox override. I disagree, I think the prefs should stay the same and we use the new browser.tabs.loadDivertedInBackground (or something) to regulate diverted links. The reason for this is the loadInBackground pref doesn’t just regulate middle click links, but links opened by the right click command “Open in new Tab” – the most obvious/logical means to open links in tabs to the user (especially new users). Furthermore, it is inconsistent with previous builds and will be confusing for returning users. > This is complicated by the fact that the external URL and diverted left-click > tabs aren't quite the same thing, but we've never considered giving them > separate focus prefs. Agreed. Bradley proposed the best option for doing this in comment 14. The problem is, this solution breaks the current tab option UI.
(In reply to comment #36) > Dan M., in my opinion you are mistaken is assuming that everyone will turn this > "single-window mode" on. Perhaps not everyone, but a considerable number. > And... if mostly Linux people will want to change the pref... so be it. My > grandmother does not use Linux, nor will she be using about:config. Linux > users, however, are several flights more likely to use about:config. Fascinating - I would think that there are just as many Windows and OSX users who mess with about:config as well! > > Lastly, I think the "option #3" you mentioned a bit strange. You can go to > Properties... on links and find what they will open in. It is the website > designer's job to make the site usable, even use a css style like a[target] or > something to color them different if neccessary... but it's not the browser's. > If someone really wants that option, I can't imagine why an extension couldn't > solve their need... anything otherwise would be bloat, imho. Which is precisely why I will now take either attachment 161088 [details] [diff] [review] or 161279 - if you'll check my latest build of TBP, 0.9.90, you'll see that in the Tab Focus section of the Tabbed Browsing panel of the Preferences dialog has the following checkbox (the panel is created by TBP, which suppresses the original UI): "Load windows diverted into tabs in the background" Everybody wins - the default UI is OK, the strings don't need munging, and if I create the pref on install with a default of 'false', then the original meaning of browser.tabs.loadInBackground is preserved. If I may say so, Mr. Goodger, take your pick.
Landru! Guide us! PS: >Dan M., in my opinion you are mistaken is assuming that everyone will turn this >"single-window mode" on. Frequency of use has nothing to do with my argument.
Comment on attachment 161279 [details] [diff] [review] default to focus email@example.com
I'm not sure we've addressed all the issues discussed here, so I'm not marking this fixed, however the last patch rubs me the right way so I've checked it in and am minusing this bug for 1.0. The reason to diverge from the 'load in background' preference here goes to user intent. When middle/ctrl+clicking on links on a web page, the general case is that the user is not done with that page yet, he is queuing up a set of pages to look at when he's done. When loading a link from another application such as an IRC client or mail, the argument is that he's looking to view that link *now* (since he presumably left-clicked on the link in that application) When loading a link in the browser targeted at _blank by left clicking again we can reasonably assume the intent of the user is to see that content *now* not later, so again focusing it seems a good default. So there seem to be two "load in background" cases - one controlling whether or not to select the tab when the user was performing an open-with-force-in-new-medium-modifier and one controlling whether or not to select the tab when the user was performing a standard "just let me see this darned link" left-click. In the latter case, I'd rather not have the user need to think about what they were doing, and just have what they were probably expecting - see the page content appear - happen.
Flags: blocking-aviary1.0+ → blocking-aviary1.0-
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041008 Firefox/0.10 - Sweetlou WFM
Great! JFEI, this preference will be configurable using any 0.9.X prerelease build of TBP. Look for "Load windows diverted into tabs in the background". I'll need to change my patch for bug 262575.
Should we open a new bug so that we can fix properly for the trunk/post 1.0? Or just continue on this bug?
The current behavior is really annoying, and there is no pref to stop the annoyance. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041008 Firefox/0.10 I prefer to go through my email messages, clicking on the various links, then read the links at my leisure. With builds up through a few months ago, I could do this. I could do this even more recently by opening a non-registered (second) installation of Firefox by hand. Messages would then open from Outlook in background without Firefox disturbing my reading. Now, from Ben's comment 41, I take it that my preferred method is not preferred. I can accept the current method as a default, but I would like a settable pref so that I don't have to keep clicking back from Firefox intruding on my reading. I'd even accept a pref I can put in user.js. But the current method is quite rude.
(In reply to comment #46) > The current behavior is really annoying, and there is no pref to stop the annoyance. > > Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041008 > Firefox/0.10 > > I prefer to go through my email messages, clicking on the various links, then > read the links at my leisure. With builds up through a few months ago, I could > do this. I could do this even more recently by opening a non-registered (second) > installation of Firefox by hand. Messages would then open from Outlook in > background without Firefox disturbing my reading. > And here all along I thought it was just my imagination or a bad setting somewhere. ME TOO! I can't believe I just let it go, and now there is finally a bug on it. > Now, from Ben's comment 41, I take it that my preferred method is not preferred. WRONG! > I can accept the current method as a default, but I would like a settable pref > so that I don't have to keep clicking back from Firefox intruding on my reading. This is especially good with messages in Thunderbird from Mozillazine pointing to threads, for example. I want to click click click on three, then delete the emails, THEN switch over to Firefox to read the threads.
Quite right mmortal03. Sasquatch, all, bug 263553 is the correct place for visions of unactivated windows.
OK I'm setting this to FIXED because the browser's tabs work exactly as I explained when I reported this bug. I see there is more discussion about whether *window* should be brought back from minimized/unfocused state for external links - I hope you don't mind when I say that this is a separate bug / request. Thanks everyone for solving this :)
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 17 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
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