Closed Bug 266168 Opened 20 years ago Closed 20 years ago

Thunderbird 0.8 allows Outlook to grab default mail client status

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Preferences, defect)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Preferences
Platform:
x86
Windows XP
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
major

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED INVALID

People

(Reporter: kevin, Assigned: mscott)

Details

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10.1
Build Identifier: version 0.8 (20040913)

If Outlook is started before Thunderbird it will become the default mail client
regardless of settings saying that Thunderbird should be the default. Previous
versions of Thunderbird (and Mozilla before that) did not allow this to happen.

Reproducible: Always
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Set Thunderbird as default mail client. Exit program.
2. Restart computer.
3. Start Outlook
4. Start Thunderbird 0.8

Actual Results:  
Got a dialog asking if I wanted to use Thunderbird as the default mail client
(along with a checkbox to not ask again, which I always check).

Expected Results:  
Should have simply started up as the default mail client.

This is something that was working fine until version 0.8 came out. Thunderbird
should not be allowing Outlook to grab default mail client status like this!
(In reply to comment #0)
> 
> If Outlook is started before Thunderbird it will become the default mail
> client regardless of settings saying that Thunderbird should be the default.

Are you sure that is what is happening?  If you start Outlook, don't start 
Thunderbird, and then click a mailto: link in a browser, which mailer starts up?

Does Outlook ask if it should be made the default?  Is there a setting in 
Outlook to check whether it is default on startup?


> Thunderbird should not be allowing Outlook to grab default mail client
> status like this!

You can't prevent Outlook from setting itself default, if indeed that's what 
it's doing.
(In reply to comment #1)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> > 
> > If Outlook is started before Thunderbird it will become the default mail
> > client regardless of settings saying that Thunderbird should be the default.
> 
> Are you sure that is what is happening?  If you start Outlook, don't start 
> Thunderbird, and then click a mailto: link in a browser, which mailer starts up?

On my home machine, Outlook starts up. 

Just now on my work machine, Thunderbird started up with the message asking if I
wanted to make it the default mail client. However, I had already started and
closed both Outlook and T-bird, so that's not a definative answer. After I post
this I'll shut down and try again, then I'll report here.


> Does Outlook ask if it should be made the default? 

No.

> Is there a setting in 
> Outlook to check whether it is default on startup?

No. There is a checkbox to MAKE it the default, but not a checkbox to
allow/disallow Outlook to check.

> > Thunderbird should not be allowing Outlook to grab default mail client
> > status like this!
> 
> You can't prevent Outlook from setting itself default, if indeed that's what 
> it's doing.

Sorry, but that doesn't fly. Since this didn't happen with Thunderbird 0.7 and
the only thing that changed in my setup was going from Thunderbird 0.7 to
Thunderbird 0.8, the problem is with Thunderbird. Perhaps 0.8 is not properly
setting itself as the default mail client -- the "do not ask me again" setting
isn't getting recorded or something.
Okay, I have tried a bunch of experiments. First off, for the sake of not
repeating myself, please note that each time I rebooted, I made certain that
Thunderbird 0.8 was the default mail client. Also, any time the dialog came up
asking if I wanted to make Thunderbird the default mail client, not only did I
click "Yes", I also checked the box that said "Do not ask me this again". Also,
I only use Firefox for browsing. IE is not used at all.

So, the first experiment was simple. I rebooted, and without starting T-bird or
Outlook, I loaded a web page and clicked on a Mailto. A Thunderbird compose
window came up. There was no dialog asking me if I wanted T-bird to be the
default. I checked, and T-bird was indeed the default client.

I rebooted. This time, I started T-bird before loading a web page. No dialog
came up when T-bird loaded. It was still the default mail client. Loaded a web
page and clicked on a Mailto with the same results as my first experiment.

Rebooted, started T-bird first, leaving it loaded, and then started up Outlook.
No dialogs came up asking me if I wanted to set Outlook as the default mail
client. Loaded a page and clicked on a Mailto. An Outlook compose window came
up. Curiously, when I closed the compose window the dialog that came up asking
me if if I wanted to save the changes to "Untitled Message" was titled
"Microsoft Office Word". I take it that MS Word is the composer for Outlook?

Rebooted. Started T-Bird, left it loaded, started Outlook. Once again no dialog
regarding changing mail clients from either program. Quit T-bird, quit Outlook.
Started T-bird again and got a dialog asking if I wanted to use Thunderbird as
the default mail client.

Once again: THIS DID NOT HAPPEN WITH THUNDERBIRD 0.7 SO SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. I
FEEL THIS IS PRETTY SERIOUS AS THIS WILL CONFUSE MANY USERS.
OK, confirming on the basis of detailed tests.

(In reply to comment #2)
> Perhaps 0.8 is not properly setting itself as the default mail client --
> the "do not ask me again" setting isn't getting recorded or something.

That's possible.  xref bug 245532.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
> (In reply to comment #2)
> > Perhaps 0.8 is not properly setting itself as the default mail client --
> > the "do not ask me again" setting isn't getting recorded or something.
> 
> That's possible.  xref bug 245532.

Hmmm, but that's about the dialog NOT coming up when it should. However, with
the caveat that I know just enough about the registry to be extremely dangerous
but not at all helpful, I looked in HKEYCU\Software\Clients\Mail and saw that
(Default) was set to "Mozilla Thunderbird". All well and good, but there was
another entry called "PreFirstRun". I don't know if that has anything to do with
this, but the data for that entry said:

"Either there is no default mail client or the current mail client cannot
fulfill the messaging request.  Please run Microsoft Office Outlook and set it
as the default mail client.*Microsoft Office Outlook"

Perhaps Thunderbird should also be making a change to this entry...?
Another possible clue was posted in this thread on the Mozillazine Forums:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=143319

I don't know if it will help me as I have already upgraded to 0.9 and I'm still
seeing the same behavior.
See bug 250675 comment 5.  I think that's the problem being discussed at the 
Mozillazine forum.  I'm not sure how it relates to this problem, but that's only 
because I haven't had an mail client other than TB set as default for many 
months.
(In reply to comment #7)
No, I'm pretty sure it's this bug that's being discussed on that Mozillazine
thread. Note the multiple mentions of Outlook in the thread. In fact, I filed
this bug due to my participation on that thread!


Still there in 1.0, FYI. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling several times,
all to no avail...
Okay, here's some more info. Richard Stauber emailed me with some suggestions to
try. While none of the suggestions ended in a fix, we got closer to finding the
event that causes the switch.

I mainly use Outlook for it's calendar and alarm features. I have several alarms
each day, and I often have alarms that go off right after I start Outlook due to
being snoozed from earlier sessions.

Now Richard had suggested using "Set Program Access and Defaults" to force TB to
be the default email program. This did not work, which is probably another bug
altogether (I'll check if it's already been reported), but in the process, I
tried something that gave a clue.

Richard also suggested going into Outlook, then going to Tools,Options then
"other" tab and remove that check mark on 'Make Outlook the default program for
mail, contacts and calendar'.

I had already unchecked that box when I posted the original bug report. It is
still unchecked. Just to be sure, I exited both TB and Outlook. Started TB to
make sure it was the default email app. Exited and started again to see if the
dialog came up asking if I should make TB the default. It didn't come up. Then I
started Outlook and checked to see if the status of that box had changed. It had
not. I then exited Outlook and started it again to see if something changed
in-between starts, as I was worried that perhaps the box status was changed upon
exiting Outlook. The box remained unchecked. Then I once again started TB. The
dialog did not come up! So something else was at work.

I started to think about what usually happens when I start Outlook.

And I found it. I hadn't been allowing Outlook to stay active long enough for an
Alarm to go off. So I tried it again and waited for an Alarm. Bingo! If an Alarm
goes off in Outlook (and that's what I use Outlook for, mostly, so alarms are
going off all the time), Outlook becomes the default e-mail program! The "Make
Outlook the default program..." box remains unchecked, though.
(In reply to comment #10)
> Now Richard had suggested using "Set Program Access and Defaults" to force TB
> to be the default email program. This did not work

"This did not work" is, in this context, vague.  What exactly do you mean?
What criterion are you using to state that TB is or is not the default?

I know of four different things that qualify:
1) TB is the systemwide handler of mailto: URL's -- this can be tested via the
   Start Menu, Run, enter a mailto: into the box.
2) TB is the systemwide MAPI handler -- this can be tested by selecting a file
   in Windows Explorer, right-clicking, and Send To > Mail Recipient
3) TB is listed as the default mail client in the WinXP Start Menu
4) TB asks whether or not it is the default when it starts up -- this feature
   is known to have some issues (bug 250675, bug 245532)
In my mind, if TB is properly set as the default client, all four of those items 
should be true.

> Bingo! If an Alarm goes off in Outlook ... Outlook becomes the default
> e-mail program!
> The "Make Outlook the default program..." box remains unchecked, though.

Very interesting.  But again -- what is the criterion you're using?  Does 
Outlook take all four of those actions from TB?

See also bug 248003.
(In reply to comment #11)
> (In reply to comment #10)
> > Now Richard had suggested using "Set Program Access and Defaults" to force TB
> > to be the default email program. This did not work
> 
> "This did not work" is, in this context, vague.  What exactly do you mean?
> What criterion are you using to state that TB is or is not the default?
 
I used "Set Program Access and Defaults" from my main Start menu. I can uncheck
the "Enable access..." box after Outlook Express and that will stay unchecked
the next time I run "Set Program Access..."

However... selecting TB instead of "Use my current e-mail program" will not
stick. The next time I run "Set Program Access..." the radio button for "Use my
current e-mail program" is selected again, not TB. The same thing happens with
Firefox under the browser section.

That certainly doesn't seem right to me.

(In reply to comment #11)
> (In reply to comment #10)
> I know of four different things that qualify:
> 1) TB is the systemwide handler of mailto: URL's -- this can be tested via the
>    Start Menu, Run, enter a mailto: into the box.
> 2) TB is the systemwide MAPI handler -- this can be tested by selecting a file
>    in Windows Explorer, right-clicking, and Send To > Mail Recipient
> 3) TB is listed as the default mail client in the WinXP Start Menu
> 4) TB asks whether or not it is the default when it starts up -- this feature
>    is known to have some issues (bug 250675, bug 245532)
> In my mind, if TB is properly set as the default client, all four of those items 
> should be true.
> 
> > Bingo! If an Alarm goes off in Outlook ... Outlook becomes the default
> > e-mail program!
> > The "Make Outlook the default program..." box remains unchecked, though.
> 
> Very interesting.  But again -- what is the criterion you're using?  Does 
> Outlook take all four of those actions from TB?

Yes. Outlook takes all four actions from TB. The Send To > Mail Recipient is a
particular pain.


(In reply to comment #11)
> I know of four different things that qualify:
> [...]
> 4) TB asks whether or not it is the default when it starts up -- this feature
>    is known to have some issues (bug 250675, bug 245532)
> In my mind, if TB is properly set as the default client, all four of those
> items should be true.

Item #4 should be "TB *does not* ask whether it should be the default...."

(In reply to comment #13)
> Yes. Outlook takes all four actions from TB. The Send To > Mail Recipient is a
> particular pain.

If you correctly interpreted what I meant, as clarified above, this means:
when you restart TB after Outlook has made itself default, then TB asks, again, 
whether it should be the default.  Is that right?

If so, what else do you expect TB to do about the problem?  It is not possible 
to prevent another program from making itself the default, it is only possible 
to make TB the default again.

If not, then this is related to, perhaps the same as, bug 245532.



(In reply to comment #12)
> However... selecting TB instead of "Use my current e-mail program" will not
> stick. The next time I run "Set Program Access..." the radio button for "Use
> my current e-mail program" is selected again, not TB. The same thing happens
> with Firefox under the browser section.
> 
> That certainly doesn't seem right to me.

I agree it's not right, but that's not Mozilla's fault -- that's how Windows 
implements that UI.
(In reply to comment #14)
> (In reply to comment #11)
> Item #4 should be "TB *does not* ask whether it should be the default...."
> 
> (In reply to comment #13)
> > Yes. Outlook takes all four actions from TB. The Send To > Mail Recipient is a
> > particular pain.
> 
> If you correctly interpreted what I meant, as clarified above, this means:
> when you restart TB after Outlook has made itself default, then TB asks, again, 
> whether it should be the default.  Is that right?

Yes, I knew what you meant to say. And yes, TB asks again whether it should be
the default.

> If so, what else do you expect TB to do about the problem?  It is not possible 
> to prevent another program from making itself the default, it is only possible 
> to make TB the default again.

What do I expect? Well, gee, I expect it to work the same as TB 0.7 which, as I
said before, DID NOT EXHIBIT THIS BEHAVIOR. Sorry for shouting, but that history
shows the problem obviously lies with TB versions 8.0 and above. This did not
happen prior to version 0.8. Since TB was the only thing in my system that
changed at the time this behavior began, the problem lies in TB, not with
Outlook. Sure, I'd love it if I could point to an MS product and say it's the
culprit, but that's not the case here. TB 0.7 would not allow this to happen,
yet 0.8 (and 0.9 and 1.0) does. Logically, TB 0.8 is doing something different.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 20 years ago
Resolution: --- → INVALID
Uhh, so what does "RESOLVED INVALID" mean?
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