276385 - Implement drag-to-select multiple messages (lasso-style, rectangle selection) in message list pane

Status: NEW

(Thunderbird :: Mail Window Front End, enhancement)

Description

[Don Erway]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0
Build Identifier: Thunderbird 1.0 - version 1.0 (20041206)

In nearly all windows and mac apps, you can lasso an area, and select all the
objects in that area.

This should work in the message list for thunderbird.



Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. try to select messages by dragging over them, or dragging an area that
includes them
2.
3.

Actual Results:  
nothing

Expected Results:  
should select the messages


same as bug 114637, but that is only for mozilla suite.

Comment 1

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 279848 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 2

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

This is an automated message, with ID "auto-resolve01".

This bug has had no comments for a long time. Statistically, we have found that
bug reports that have not been confirmed by a second user after three months are
highly unlikely to be the source of a fix to the code.

While your input is very important to us, our resources are limited and so we
are asking for your help in focussing our efforts. If you can still reproduce
this problem in the latest version of the product (see below for how to obtain a
copy) or, for feature requests, if it's not present in the latest version and
you still believe we should implement it, please visit the URL of this bug
(given at the top of this mail) and add a comment to that effect, giving more
reproduction information if you have it.

If it is not a problem any longer, you need take no action. If this bug is not
changed in any way in the next two weeks, it will be automatically resolved.
Thank you for your help in this matter.

The latest beta releases can be obtained from:
Firefox:     http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/
Thunderbird: http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/releases/1.5beta1.html
Seamonkey:   http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/

Comment 3

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

This bug has been automatically resolved after a period of inactivity (see above
comment). If anyone thinks this is incorrect, they should feel free to reopen it.

Comment 4

[Don Erway]

This is an enhancement request, not a bug report.

And it has had at least one duplicate report marked, so I am not alone in this request.

Comment 5

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hm, it's a real shame that this feature has so few requesters or engagement at all. Being able to lasso-select multiple messages is a very nice way to manage e-mail, for example for selecting blocks of messages to file under a certain folder or consign to the Trash.

I will admit, it's an iffy suggestion, because there are conflicting conventions on how to treat list boxes, in particular when you are able to drag items in the list. It seems that more often than not, lasso-selection for multiple-selection list boxes is NOT implemented, but I feel that this is to the detriment of every such application. Take for example Windows Explorer or the Mac Finder: they both do a pretty good job of lasso selection when in list-box mode (List mode on the Mac, Detail mode in Windows).

One of my general beliefs is that, within reason, every operation on a computer should be able to be accomplished with a single input device without having to keep switching from keyboard to mouse every time you hit a task that only one device can accomplish. (Obviously, tasks involving chains of UNIX commands are best not attempted with the mouse ;)

I can select multiple mails in Thunderbird from the keyboard, using shift-down arrow or shift-up arrow. There is no way to select multiple messages with the mouse: I have to reach for the shift or ctrl key for this, which can be a nuisance -- there are often times when you want to use only whatever is in reach, or have only one hand free.

Alas, I would imagine that this feature would require a significant change to XUL, since it shows no sign of supporting lasso-selection in lists :(

Comment 6

[Michael Zusman]

The ability to drag-select messages (for deletion or transfer) was one of my "go to" features in Eudora 7 (and prior) and is intensely missed in Eudora 8.

Its utility for rapidly selecting a group of messages by sender, date or subject is substantial for high volume mail recipients.  As suggested above, I would prefer not to have to toggle b/w mouse and keyboard to accomplish a single function most readily accomplished by mouse.

Please consider this as an enhancement to Eudora 8.  Many thanks.

FYI:  using Eu 8.0.0b1 w/ Windows Vista Home Premium

Comment 7

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

Until or unless drag-select is implemented, the workaround is shift-click, which also selects "everything from here to there" (and, in addition, ctrl-click allows discontinuous selection).

Comment 9

[Gertlex]

I've been desiring this feature for years.  Individually selecting with ctrl-click or attempting to isolate messages by searching is tedious.

The example that comes to mind for how this should be implemented is file selection in Filezilla.

Comment 10

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Gertlex from comment #9)
> I've been desiring this feature for years.  Individually selecting with
> ctrl-click or attempting to isolate messages by searching is tedious.

Gertlex, lasso-style selection by dragging will always create a continous selection unless captions have different lengths (which usually won't coincide with desired selection). Systematic discontinous selection is not possible with lasso-style selection. So I don't see how this feature would make *discontinous* selection easier?

Comment 11

[Daniel Beardsmore]

(In reply to Thomas D. from comment #10)
> (In reply to Gertlex from comment #9)
> > I've been desiring this feature for years.  Individually selecting with
> > ctrl-click or attempting to isolate messages by searching is tedious.
> 
> Gertlex, lasso-style selection by dragging will always create a continous
> selection unless captions have different lengths ...

Just hold ctrl before dragging, and it will add to the existing selection, at least it does in Windows, I imagine other GUIs have a similar idea. Also, holding ctrl and moving the arrows should move the focus ring under Windows, with ctrl-space selecting the focused item -- not at Thunderbird right now, I presume this is implemented? It is in Firefox's saved passwords window, but not in Firefox's cookies window, where ctrl-arrows scroll the list instead (inconsistent behaviour)

Comment 12

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Daniel Beardsmore from comment #11)
> Just hold ctrl before dragging, and it will add to the existing selection,
> at least it does in Windows, I imagine other GUIs have a similar idea. Also,
> holding ctrl and moving the arrows should move the focus ring under Windows,
> with ctrl-space selecting the focused item -- not at Thunderbird right now,

Ctrl+movement keys and Ctrl+Space for discontinous selection of multiple messages works as expected in TB 10 on Windows XP. It doesn't work for you? Then pls file a new bug.

Daniel, you missed my point. Gertlex said in comment 9 (I paraphrase): "Rectangular mouse-selection (this bug) is needed [because] Ctrl+Click for discontinuous selection is too tedious". He seems to say that implementing this bug (lasso-style rectangular drag-selection) would make discontinuous selection of multiple messages easier. I don't think that's true.

Otherwise, I am in favour of this bug, although I don't think it's urgent in any way because actually imo using Shift+Mouse or Shift+Keyboard techniques are more efficient and more precise than the "lasso" technique for selecting a continuous block of multiple messages.

Comment 13

[Daniel Beardsmore]

My personal belief is that, within reason, every action on a computer should be able to be carried out using only the mouse, or only the keyboard. This is why Windows has such wonders as right-drag -- pops up a context menu at the end for Move/Copy/etc (though almost nothing implements this -- Outlook 2003 does, though), which means you can use the PC with something in your non-mouse hand and move and copy rapidly and efficiently. It also saves remembering which specific combination of ctrl/alt/shift/cmd/opt/meta bucky bits you need in order to do something, and also saves trudging through menus.

(This is one of my beefs with Windows 7 -- the new taskbar requires a load of random keys to be held down in conjunction with the mouse in order to get to features that should be directly mouse accessible. As a consequence these features aren't even obviously available any more, as right-click doesn't reveal them. It's a pain having to try each key in turn, some with side effects, together with left and right mouse to remember where MS hid what used to just simply be right there in right-click)

I'm not sure honestly on the validity of lasso select for messages, though. Part of the issue is the reticence of UI developers to provide native and useful multi-column lists. For example, Outlook 2003 doesn't allow lasso select, but Explorer does, yet both of these do multi-column lists (except Outlook 2003 can't even draw an OS-native column header).

Also, in terms of multiple discontinuous selections, it may not be obvious that ctrl+shift in some programs allows you to click an item, shift-click another to select that range, then ctrl-click a third, then ctrl-shift-click a fourth to add another range. Outlook allows this, Explorer does not. (I wasn't aware that it worked until I just tried; yet neither Outlook nor Explorer did what I thought would happen, that the range would be extended from the first to last item. Explorer ignores shift once you've got a discontinuous selection.) Firefox's saved passwords window gets it "right", working the same way as Outlook 2003 (Outlook 2003 in some ways does what's correct even against Windows convention). Except Outlook doesn't do the lasso select. So are both programs half-correct? I have no idea what Mac OS X likes, especially as the Finder's selection algorithms were typically atrocious and Apple didn't know what a multi-column list was until X.

The Windows world at least is so fraught with utter belligerent refusal to make any two programs look or behave like each other in any way, that learning such trivial interactions is basically impossible. It's no great suprise that most people still don't know how to use computers properly ...

PS yes I'm overdue a newer Outlook ;-)

Comment 14

[Gertlex]

Hi Thomas

You referred to my note about tediousness, but couldn't see what I was referring to.  Hopefully this image helps:
http://i.imgur.com/yTp70.jpg

As it currently stands, using the mouse, this is about 8 clicks to select what's shown.  If I could do the following: 1) drag and select the first bunch; 2) hold ctrl and lasso the second bunch... That would be two clicks.

Daniel, tl;dr :)

Comment 15

[Daniel Beardsmore]

OK, the lazy bastard version:

(Caveat: not in front of Thunderbird, but this should work)

Click first e-mail (top of block A).
Shift-click second e-mail (bottom of block B).
Ctrl-click third e-mail (top of block C).
Shift-ctrl-click fourth e-mail (top of block D).
Rinse and repeat for additional blocks.

Capisce?

Comment 16

[Gertlex]

Thanks for that Daniel. Not that I have any cred left, but damn, it's always the bit of a post that I don't skim that has the juicy bits.

Comment 17

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Erratum: I meant top/bottom of block A, top/bottom of block B, but most of my brain cells are dead right now ;)

Comment 18

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Gertlex (comment 14), thanks for clarifying. Indeed, lasso-style mouse selection will make selection of multiple blocks of messages easier. I missed that one. The details are moot (it's 4 mouse clicks + 4 modifier key presses to arrive at 2 blocks).

Daniel (comment 13), please focus on the topic of this bug, for which your detailed and partly wrong as well as subjective analysis of Win7, Explorer and Outl. behaviour isn't very helpful. (comment 11, comment 15): Pls don't skip verbs that are important to understand what you are trying to say: "not at TB right now" / "not in front of TB" - it's not very clear that you are probably trying to say that you haven't verified this on TB. And then, if you can't verify because you don't have access to TB at the time of commenting, it might be better to wait with commenting instead of confusing others with assumptions about TB's behaviour.

Gertlex & Daniel, this isn't a chatroom ;)

Comment 19

[Daniel Beardsmore]

It's actually very important to pay attention to what other software does. After all, a constant failure of people to do so is precisely the reason that Windows UI in such a mess in the first place. There's no sense in implementing this request if it's contradictory to correct behaviour, and it's important therefore to carefully heed other programs. I can't use TB at work (since we're on Exchange), so Outlook/TB conflicts are quite bad as well, which I imagine will affect a lot of people. I've had to block Ctrl-Q (Outlook's mark as read shortcut) in Thunderbird via a third-party add-on as I kept closing TB by mistake when I meant to press 'm' (TB's equivalent). Making message dragging behaviour contractory to common assumptions would be a real headache for some people as well.

Although at one stage I also wanted lasso select, I'm now uncertain as to whether it's the correct behaviour for the control type (grouped columnar list tied to row view). Maybe the improvment I presented to Gertlex might be sufficient for the OP as well.

Besides, the only reason for having Bugzilla is so that we can all engage in pointless arguments for years. We're only at 18 comments after eight years -- should be far more bickering by now, so we have a lot of catching up to to to make this a proper bug report.

Oh, and this isn't a Grammar Nazi Party party.

Comment 20

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Daniel Beardsmore from comment #19)
> Oh, and this isn't a Grammar Nazi Party party.

Daniel, you may or may not be aware that calling a German a Nazi is the ultimate insult. This insult is completely inappropriate in response to my pointed yet friendly invitation of comment 18...
> this isn't a chatroom ;)
...to not hijack this bug for your own conversation with Gertlex, in a colloquial communication style which underlines your attitude of private conversation:
> lazy bastard version - capisce - (damn) - my brain cells are dead right now

Your above-mentioned insult ("Grammar nazi") is clearly in violation of the BMO nettiquette (1):
> Attacking a person may result in you being banned from Bugzilla.

To be clear: If I'm forced to choose between (a) keeping BMO as a friendly place and (b) removing your BMO account, I will not hesitate to go for (b).

Notwithstanding, I'll try to keep the discussion going about the more useful parts of your contributions.

(1) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html

Comment 21

[MarjaE]

Most mice lack shift or control keys, so shift+click and control+click aren't viable options for most users who either have only 1 hand or have coordination problems and trouble using 2-handed functions.