277328 - "Welcome to Mozilla Firefox Help" page needs to align with content on www.mozilla.org/support

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Firefox Graveyard :: Help Documentation, defect)

Description

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

The "Welcome to Help" page is out of synch with the content on
mozilla.org/support/. These two need to be in synch, discussed with cbeard and
asa today. I will file a separate bug with Firefox since this is an issue there
too.

Bug 277327 has filed to address this issue in Seamonkey

Comment 1

[Steffen Wilberg]

http://www.mozilla.org/support/ is a pretty nice page nowadays. Do we really
need to duplicate that? How about replacing everything starting with "Help on
the Web" by a link to that page?

Comment 2

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

Steffen: The most important thing is that the content that is on that page be
reflected in the browser - as things change, we want to make sure that people
dowloading the products have the most up to date information available. So, I
would be in favor of replacing that page with a link to the support page since
chris beard is keeping that up to date.

Comment 3

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

I'm not exactly sure what is required for this bug.  I'm currently tackling
setting up a similar page for the future built-in Thunderbird Help, and I really
don't know what's required here.  It's pretty clear you want the page made as
close to up-to-date as possible; that makes sense.

How would we make it perpetually up-to-date?  It could be easily done by making
the links go to mozilla.org pages.  For example, the links to plug-in
documentation and DecisionOne support should be moved to something that's
mozilla.org-based, letting us keep updated pages on mozilla.org that won't
become obsolete because someone's using an old version of the software.  With
respect to the DecisionOne link, that should be converted to a link that's
something like /support/firefox/support that is a page with a list of support
options that are viable for enterprise users.  The page could include
DecisionOne, MozSource, and whomever else we decide to add.  It'll be more
current than a static link can be.  Similarly, for the plug-in document, we can
make it a redirect to whatever we want -- PluginDoc, some page on update.m.o,
wherever.

However, beyond that I'm not sure what's needed.  Should we nix the sectioned
style of the document (something I've actually been inclined to do anyway)? 
Condense the sections into one link that goes to /support/firefox (leaving the
instructions on using Help at the top, however, to be safe)?  Convert it from a
gateway page to a "getting started" page?  I'm open to constructive feedback.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure this is something we want to address before Firefox
1.1.  Until I know what's needed, tho, I don't think we can really make much
progress here.

Comment 4

[R.J. Keller]

Attachment: Patch

This looks like what Marcia is trying to get at. This patch requires bug 285035
to be checked in first.

Comment 5

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

Comment on attachment 176503 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch

This needs updating now that we're just changing the stylesheet some.

Additionally, could you post a screenshot?  As I'm not sure what Marcia wants
here, I'd like her to take a look at what's being proposed.

Comment 6

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

it would be great if we could see a screenshot of this.

Comment 7

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

Attachment: New patch [checked in]

Steffen, how does this approach look?  The non-insertion changes are mostly
just to make the doc look less sparse, as replacing the table with a brief
blurb makes it look really, really empty.

In the long term, I think we need to rewrite this to include really useful
information beyond the link to online support, but that's for another bug.

Comment 8

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

Attachment: Screenshot of patch

I debated whether or not to post a screenshot until after I'd gotten a patch
past Steffen, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to post it before then as a preview
of where the patch will likely go.

Comment 9

[Steffen Wilberg]

Comment on attachment 181917 [details] [diff] [review]
New patch [checked in]

I think this is all we need here. Thanks, Jeff.

Should we replace "left frame" by "sidebar", since that's the string used in
the View menu and the toggle sidebar button tooltip?

>+<p>If you can't find what you need in built-in &brandShortName; Help, you can
>+  find more help and support options online at <a
>+  href="http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/">&brandShortName; Help</a>.</p>
I guess you don't want that page to load in the Help Viewer? :)
So add target="_blank" here, and r=me.

Comment 10

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

Comment on attachment 181917 [details] [diff] [review]
New patch [checked in]

For the record, I do intend to run this past Marcia first before checking it in
with the requested minor changes.

Comment 11

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

Comment on attachment 181917 [details] [diff] [review]
New patch [checked in]

a=asa

Comment 12

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

Jeff: I think what I was looking for in particular was making sure that we link
to the mozilla.org/support page for support, because the possibility exists that
vendors will change, be added, etc.  Having the links go to mozilla.org pages is
fine, but I think for tech support the link should do to the support page and
not to one that is necessarily specific to Decision One.

I see the sectioned style of the document was removed, I kind of liked that fact
that the various options were called out.  

I would like to see what others think, including chris beard.


(In reply to comment #3)
> I'm not exactly sure what is required for this bug.  I'm currently tackling
> setting up a similar page for the future built-in Thunderbird Help, and I really
> don't know what's required here.  It's pretty clear you want the page made as
> close to up-to-date as possible; that makes sense.
> 
> How would we make it perpetually up-to-date?  It could be easily done by making
> the links go to mozilla.org pages.  For example, the links to plug-in
> documentation and DecisionOne support should be moved to something that's
> mozilla.org-based, letting us keep updated pages on mozilla.org that won't
> become obsolete because someone's using an old version of the software.  With
> respect to the DecisionOne link, that should be converted to a link that's
> something like /support/firefox/support that is a page with a list of support
> options that are viable for enterprise users.  The page could include
> DecisionOne, MozSource, and whomever else we decide to add.  It'll be more
> current than a static link can be.  Similarly, for the plug-in document, we can
> make it a redirect to whatever we want -- PluginDoc, some page on update.m.o,
> wherever.
> 
> However, beyond that I'm not sure what's needed.  Should we nix the sectioned
> style of the document (something I've actually been inclined to do anyway)? 
> Condense the sections into one link that goes to /support/firefox (leaving the
> instructions on using Help at the top, however, to be safe)?  Convert it from a
> gateway page to a "getting started" page?  I'm open to constructive feedback.
> 
> Anyways, I'm pretty sure this is something we want to address before Firefox
> 1.1.  Until I know what's needed, tho, I don't think we can really make much
> progress here.

Comment 13

[Steffen Wilberg]

Marcia, how about the screenshot (attachment 181918 [details])? The "Firefox Help" link
points to http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/.

Comment 14

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

(In reply to comment #13)
> Marcia, how about the screenshot (attachment 181918 [details] [edit])? The "Firefox
Help" link
> points to http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/.

Steffen: that would be okay, except that firefox support page doesn't have any
information about getting either email or telephone support. I think it would be
good to have that information readily available for users.

Comment 15

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

(In reply to comment #14)
> (In reply to comment #13)
> > The "Firefox Help" link points to http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/.
> 
> Steffen: that would be okay, except that firefox support page doesn't have any
> information about getting either email or telephone support. I think it would
> be good to have that information readily available for users.

I think this is more a problem with the support page than with our link.  If
there's to be a link in Help, it should be as direct a link as possible. 
<http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/> is direct -- you want help with
Firefox, you go there and you get it.  It may be missing some of the available
options, but what it might miss in coverage it more than makes up for by not
having "useless" information.

<http://www.mozilla.org/support/>, on the other hand, is a catch-all page that
highlights *all* the support options available for *all* the Foundation's
products.  The information's a hodgepodge of app-specific, community, and paid
support options.  If I'm an end user and I click on a link to "Firefox Help" I
expect to be sent to a page with info on *Firefox*.  I *don't* need or want
information on Thunderbird or Mozilla Suite support.  If I get sent there, I'm
forced to scroll around, search through the page, and click on a few links to
see all my options.

Could we perhaps move the support information specific to Firefox onto a
Firefox-specific page (as I assume <http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/> is
supposed to be)?  I'd really, really like to keep the amount of non-Firefox
information on whatever page is used as close to nil as possible.

Comment 16

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

Jeff: From a maintenance standpoint, I believe it might be easier just to
maintain one page. If we change third party vendors in the future, someone will
then have to maintain that Firefox page as well (not ruling out the possibility,
it just means a little more work). However, I also just noticed that Thunderbird
does have its own help page, and it doesn't even mention any of the third party
support options. Let me think about this a bit more.

(In reply to comment #15)
> (In reply to comment #14)
> > (In reply to comment #13)
> > > The "Firefox Help" link points to http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/.
> > 
> > Steffen: that would be okay, except that firefox support page doesn't have any
> > information about getting either email or telephone support. I think it would
> > be good to have that information readily available for users.
> 
> I think this is more a problem with the support page than with our link.  If
> there's to be a link in Help, it should be as direct a link as possible. 
> <http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/> is direct -- you want help with
> Firefox, you go there and you get it.  It may be missing some of the available
> options, but what it might miss in coverage it more than makes up for by not
> having "useless" information.
> 
> <http://www.mozilla.org/support/>, on the other hand, is a catch-all page that
> highlights *all* the support options available for *all* the Foundation's
> products.  The information's a hodgepodge of app-specific, community, and paid
> support options.  If I'm an end user and I click on a link to "Firefox Help" I
> expect to be sent to a page with info on *Firefox*.  I *don't* need or want
> information on Thunderbird or Mozilla Suite support.  If I get sent there, I'm
> forced to scroll around, search through the page, and click on a few links to
> see all my options.
> 
> Could we perhaps move the support information specific to Firefox onto a
> Firefox-specific page (as I assume <http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/> is
> supposed to be)?  I'd really, really like to keep the amount of non-Firefox
> information on whatever page is used as close to nil as possible.

Comment 17

[Marcia Knous [:marcia]]

Raphael and I just finished talking about this. He thinks the screenshot looks
fine, and he thinks we should make sure to link to the Firefox help page
(http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/), which we do. So the only piece that
remains to be done is to make sure we include the Firefox third party support
options on that page so that is easy for users to get support when they need it.
That also means that when vendors change, someone has to remember to change that
page.  Looks like david tenser might own that page, so we just need to figure
out who will add the third party support information. David should probably also
update the copyright information on that page as well.

Comment 18

[Steffen Wilberg]

David, see comment 17.

Comment 19

[Steffen Wilberg]

Comment on attachment 181917 [details] [diff] [review]
New patch [checked in]

Looks like everyone agrees.

Checking in mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/firefox_welcome.xhtml;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/firefox_welcome.xhtml,v  <--
 firefox_welcome.xhtml
new revision: 1.14; previous revision: 1.13
done

Comment 20

[Jeff Walden (gone starting June 8)]

(In reply to comment #9)
> Should we replace "left frame" by "sidebar", since that's the string used in
> the View menu and the toggle sidebar button tooltip?
... 
> >+  find more help and support options online at <a
> >+  href="http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/">&brandShortName; Help</a>.</p>
> I guess you don't want that page to load in the Help Viewer? :)
> So add target="_blank" here, and r=me.

Steffen, you want to fix these?  They got forgotten on checkin, it seems (I
meant to fix them then, but you got to it before I had time -- classes are
nearing the end and I've been getting hammered).  After that's done we can
probably close this bug and file a new one for the website content updates.

Comment 21

[Steffen Wilberg]

Oops, fixed.
And marking fixed.