with the increased (to say the least) contributions of localizations, I think we can expect a vast amount of bug regarding spelled error, mis translations and the like for the different localizations. I my opinion the right place for this kind of bug is currently browser-internalization. But I suggest a adding a "Language-Pack" product under bugzilla with the components being the different localizations. the reason for this are (among other): 1. average users can have dificulties finding the right place (browser-internalization) especially if they saw the error in e.g. mail-news 2. The sheer number of possible bug, this will most likely overwhelm the owner of browser-internalization. 3. some bug reports might be written in the actual locale, or might be missing information about which locale has the problem,and this will make it harder to assign the rigth man, image a bug like this: "Jeg har lige downloadet den her MozScape ting, den er egentlig meget fed, og oversættelsen er også god, Jeg synes dog 'navn på adressebog' skal laves om til 'adressebogens navn' Det lyder bedre" how can easely assing this bug ? * and with the number of localizations (38 at the time of writing) i think it is worth the work 4. having it split up, can automate many of the assignments, plus it seems logical to the avarege user.
Reassigning to leger, as she'll be more likely to be tuned into relevant issues than I am.
tao, bobj, what would you like me to do here? Do you want this added as a new component? Or do one of your current Intl components work for this?
As far as I know bugzilla then a component can't have sub components, thats why I suggest a language-pack PRODUCT with each localization being a COMPONENT like this Language pack -> Danish - Denmark (defaults to Lynggaard@netscape.net for assignment and QA) Bosnien - Bosnia (defaults to Adnan) Japanese - Japan ( default to ....) and so on and so on for all 38+ localazations this way no-one (e.g adnan)has to read thrugh alot of bugs to find the ones that he has to fix. This is way better than just cramming all the bugs into one component under the browser product. a rough estimate of 38 localizations times 50 bugs per locale (properly a fair amount considering duplicates and invalids) = 1900 bug. Put that in a single component, then whoever has the default assignmet for that component will REAL busy.
I have asked for comments in netscape.public.mozilla.l10n
I like Henrik's idea in principle. I have additional thoughts: 1. Lang Packs created by volunteers should not be in the same category as Netscape L10n category. Netscape L10n might do its own localization and reporting of problems should not be mixed. 2. I think this will be a great tool for Lang Pack developers, but I wonder if average users will file a Bugzilla report -- so far they have not done so in great numbers. I suspect that there will be some language lang pack projects where there are a large number of interested high-end users, e.g. Japanese. 3. So how about establishing "Lang Pack" product category and include the lang-locale's under component if the owner of that lang-locale project feels this will be useful to them? This way we can start with a few and increase as needed. 4. The owner of each lang-locale should take responsiblity in migrating a bug to other products and components if it turns out that reported bugs have core origins.
to momoi: 1. naturally 2.I think the average user, will ( or can be tought it) use the bugzilla system. espesially if this is portrayed as the main feedback point 3.Although I thought it was less work to do it in one go, I undersatnd that added a small number in the beginning might be done.If so I would like the da-DK locale to be in the "first pack" so to speak 4. agreed
Tao, Bob, one of the most often heard complaints from many Japanese volunteers is that there is a bug language barrier in Bugzilla. It is a fact and we cannot wish this away. I think we can use this idea by Lynggaard to harness the energy of the Japanese volunteers. How about it? What is important is that some volunteers in the Ja group will move bugs to teh English side as needed. The volunteers can even write Japanese interface and make it part of English Bugzilla. I think we should open up Bugzilla this way.
christine, dawn, what do you think? There is currently some discussion going on in one of the Japanese mailing lists about setting up Japanese version of Bugzilla because most of the Japanese volunteers are hampered by a language barrier. We can harness more contributions from these people if bugs can be filed in their own lnaguage. Then, some volunteers will take responsibilties to move important bugs to the English as needed.
I think setting up a japanese bugzilla would be an interesting idea and if there is a big japanese mozilla community then it seems like a good idea to do this. However, here are the problems I see with doing this. - bugzilla wasn't originally set up to be localized so it will probably be a lot of work to do so. (or it will be the first time at least) - it will be a bit of work to maintain your copy of bugzilla and keep it running - This doesn't scale very well for all 38+ localizations. - What if you hacked bugzilla to make it localizable and provided a japanese localization. Then our copy of bugzilla could work in either language by adding a language argument. Once this work is done it would be easier for it to be localized into other languages. What about doing this for languages with fewer bugs reported? - Set up a localization product with one component per localization. - Have each localizer set up a localized version of this page http://www.mozilla.org/quality/help/bug-form.html - Make it so that the localized versions of the bugzilla helper submit all their bugs to their languages l10n component. - l10n component owners (and their helpers) triage their bug lists by keeping the translation related bugs and translating and reassigning other bugs. For example, a danish user reports a bug with the layout engine. It initially gets assigned to lynggaard who then translates it and reassigns it to the proper component. - This wouldn't scale very well for languages with lots of non-english bug reporters. Getting volunteers to help triage and translate bug reports would help. Also you could possibly have your bug helper page ask people to only submit bugs related to the localization itself and ignore all other bugs in a worst case situation. apparently there's a big bugzilla localization thread in the webtools newsgroup we should all read
I like Dawn's suggestion. See my comment below: > - What if you hacked bugzilla to make it localizable and provided a japanese > localization. Then our copy of bugzilla could work in either language by > adding a language argument. Once this work is done it would be easier for > it to be localized into other languages. > Someone need to look into the Bugzilla's localizibility issue before we commit to a localized bugzilla server. > What about doing this for languages with fewer bugs reported? > - Set up a localization product with one component per localization. > - Have each localizer set up a localized version of this page > http://www.mozilla.org/quality/help/bug-form.html > - Make it so that the localized versions of the bugzilla helper submit all > their bugs to their languages l10n component. > - l10n component owners (and their helpers) triage their bug lists by keeping > the translation related bugs and translating and reassigning other bugs. For > example, a danish user reports a bug with the layout engine. It initially > gets assigned to lynggaard who then translates it and reassigns it to the > proper component. > - This wouldn't scale very well for languages with lots of non-english bug > reporters. Getting volunteers to help triage and translate bug reports would > help. Also you could possibly have your bug helper page ask people to only > submit bugs related to the localization itself and ignore all other bugs in > a worst case situation. Excellent idea. I also suggest that we recruit more volunteers for each language so that people won't get worn out. Translation of all the bug reports could be very time consuming and effort taking. Thanks
terry, what are your thoughts? I see there is a post from Olaf Kirche on 2/15/00 on the webtools group about localizing bugzilla and apparently some discussion about this even earlier.
To add some more information. The JPN group decided to start up their own version of Bugzilla in Japan for the following reasons primarily: 1. MySQL is not i18n'ed to do search/query in Japanese. (They got a Japanese capable version for their Bugzilla.) 2. They want the interface to be in JPN. Volunteers will file mirror bugs in our Bugzilla as needed. I wonder if search/query for Latin 1 data and other languages actually work on Bugzilla now. We know that it does not for JPN.
momoi has some concerns that bugzilla's database (mysql) may not be able to handle Latin1 characters. Lynggaard, could you test to see if there are any problems with entering danish in bugs? I see that this bug has some danish. Maybe you could search for "også" in the description field and if that works, create a test bug and put it through its paces. Create a user with a "å" character in their name, etc. Apparently bugzilla won't work for cjk languages at all until mysql is updated.
I have done 2 mini tests on bugzilla test 1: search for æ in the summary, it returned my URLencode bug. test 2: search for også in the description, and it returned this bug seems to work
Henrik. That is good news for Latin 1. For Japanese, once in a while it works fortuitously. But mostly it does not.
From reading through this summary, there seem to be two DIFFERENT problems discussed here: The problem the bug was originally reported on: Setting up a "Language-Pack" product with current locales as products. All comments I see on that seem to say "Yes, do it" - so what's the status here? Side note: some talk to Asa Dotzler at #mozillazine showed that something like that is really needed. He said he has sometimes Borwser-General bugs which seem to only happen with one locale - but there's no way of assigning such a bug to the locale owner... The second problem is localization of BugZilla itself. I think that should be a seperate bug report - and this is much harder to do - but dawn's "workaround" seems to solve the problem to a certain extent for now... Does someone file a bug report for it so we can seperate those problem? Should I do that?
Do we have any idea on which cases Japanese works or does not work? The problem referred to as the "localization of BugZilla itself" is a misnomer. We should refer to this as the I18N enabling of Bugzilla. Irrespective of the localization, we should be able to search Bugzilla for Japanese or other non-Latin1 data. Could this problem be caused by certain byte clashes between SJIS and ASCII? Bugzilla or its underlying data base implementation may be doing byte-by-byte instead of character-by-character processing. If so, would a temporary workaround be to convert non-Latin1 data to an ASCII-compatible encoding (e.g., UTF-8)? It might work better than storing and searching in "native encodings" which map "non-ASCII" characaters with "ASCII" byte values.
To set up a localization product I need: 1) A description for the product that will show up in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi 2) a name for the product. I suppose "localization" is good. "browser localization" would be better but is probably too long. 3) a list of components. Each component needs a description, an owner, and a qa contact.
product: Localization product description: Localizations of mozila. component: da-DK or Danish component description: Danish translation of mozilla / Dansk oversættelse af Mozilla default assign: firstname.lastname@example.org qa: email@example.com
product: "Localization" - looks good for me. product description: IMHO it should describe it better, Lyggaard. So what about "Language Packs and localized builds of Mozilla" ?? component: please add "de-AT" component description: German (Austria) translation & localisation of Mozilla / Deutsche (österreichische) Übersetzung von Mozilla owner: KaiRo@StarTrekMail.com QA: KaiRo@StarTrekMail.com - would be nice to find someone else here ;-)
Responding to KaiRo's comment on 3/19/2000, I think we can, for the time being, put aside Localization into Japanese. Japanese volunteers are doing that themselves and hopefully will be starting up their own server in Japan soon. It will be an interesting expriment and endico is helping as well. So, this RFE can be left alone for Henrik's original request.
Kairo: I agree that the product description should be better than my first attempt :-) it was a quick hack in the middle of schoolwork. I like your proposal
component: please add "nno-no" (three-letter ... please see <URL:http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso639/iso639-en.html> component description: Norwegian (nynorsk) translation of Mozilla / Norsk (nynorsk) omsetjing av Mozilla owner: firstname.lastname@example.org
Please add Dutch (nl) to BugZilla: component: nl component description: Dutch translation of Mozilla - Nederlandse vertaling van Mozilla owner: email@example.com qa: firstname.lastname@example.org (might change soon)
Hi, Jan/Dawn: May I assume that a conclusion had been reached and the implementation is in progress? Let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks
Sending over to bobj...setting QA Contact to msanz. What's the latest on possible doing this?
I assumed this was being "fixed" by email@example.com. Assigning it to me won't get it fixed. Reassiging to endico for now.
I set up the product "Browser Localizations" with the description: "For problems with translation, spelling and other errors in particular language packs and localized builds of Mozilla. Also for reporting browser bugs in languages other than english." I added components for danish, dutch, german and norwegian. I'm not terribly happy with the names but these can be changed later. Everyone suggested using the language abbreviations, which make sense to localizers but I imagine are probably meaningless to most people. Our rule here is to use real words, not jargon. Bug categories and descriptions should be chosen to make it easier for users to file bugs correctly. The best thing would have been to use the local language name as the component name (dansk, deutche, etc) which would have worked for these four languages but not for Hebrew and possibly not even for French. Using just english is bad, and using just the abbreviation is bad because its so cryptic. However, people downloading de-AT builds may recognize the abbreviation if they pay attention to the urls they click on so maybe that's not so bad. As a compromize i combined the the english name and the language code to form component names like "Danish/da-DK". Yes, its ugly but at least the componets are there and people can get started working. If people dislike this, reopen the bug and we can discuss this more and change the component names later.
Looks great! Marking Verified for this initial setup. If folks have changes needed, suggest writing a new bug.
Please add: component: Italian/ it-IT component description: Italian translation of mozilla / Traduzione italiana di Mozilla default assign: firstname.lastname@example.org qa: email@example.com
added component for italian
I have noticed a bit late the news about this in the l10n newsgroup... I totally agree with Endico. Since Bugzilla has been written in Perl it shouldn't be difficult to make this thing work. I agree that we should translate that Bugzilla Helper page. I would go even a step further. Some of us have made Mozilla sections on their pages and we could put Bugzilla Helper page on our site and the forms action attribute could point to action="http://bugzilla.mozill.org/...cgi?id=123&p1=bs-BA&p2=navigator&p3=x&p4=y " What do you think about that. It would increase even more the bug reporting of those people who are new to Internet (in Bosnia there are such people) and we are primarily helping them by translating Mozilla. We could adapt the look of Bugzilla Helper page to our site but live the important element and form parts. Cheers, Adnan
Add this too: Component: Bosnian/bs-BA Component description: Bosnian translation of Mozilla / Prevod Mozille na bosanski Default assign: firstname.lastname@example.org QA: email@example.com
added component for bosnian to browser localizations product. aselimovic, i'm not sure what you meant by your comment about setting the action field. Did you mean that using your localized helper form should enter bugs into bugzilla like the normal one does? Yes, that's what I meant. I think there should be some changes though. For instance, your helper form should only assign bugs to the bosnian component even if people have a problem with something else like layout. Or if you don't have the resources to translate bug reports for the rest of the browser, then just make a helper that's tailored towards just localization bugs themselves.
endico, well, I think that I can translate bugs for all the components. I want to make my own Helper Page where the people could only submit localization bugs for Bosnian component. For other components people could still go to the Helper Page on mozilla.org.
Please Add this too: Component: Bulgarian/bg-BG Component description: Bulgarian translation of Mozilla / Превод на Mozilla на български Default assign: firstname.lastname@example.org QA: email@example.com
added Bulgarian component. Please look at this url and make sure the Bulgarian part of the description is correct. I pasted it in from the bug but since I don't have the proper font it looks like gibberish to me. BTW, what font does Bulgarian require? http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Browser%20Localizations
Moving to Bugzilla product