332423 - news.mozilla.org timeouts

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(mozilla.org Graveyard :: Server Operations, task)

Description

[HJ]

I am trying to subscribe to news.mozilla.org like I normally do but it keeps timing out.  Asa suggested to file a bug (but I can't find the proper component). I never had problems like this before, but even ping to news.mozilla.org time out.

Comment 1

[HJ]

I use SeaMonkey and I have no problems with other newsgroups and at least two other people on news.mozdev.org (project lead group) had similar problems after the change for the Google groups, but they no longer see this problem, but I do.

Comment 2

[HJ]

Hm, news.giganews.com works so this is starting to look like a real MoFo/MoCo issue.

Comment 3

[:Gavin Sharp [email: [e-mail]]]

Is this still a problem? There was scheduled downtime yesterday as the DNS architecture was changed, see http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/it/2006/03/mozilla_scheduled_downtime_331.html .

Comment 4

[Justin Fitzhugh]

Just checked and it's working fine.  Also, pings work fine:

$ ping news.mozilla.org
PING news.mozilla.giganews.com (216.196.97.169): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 216.196.97.169: icmp_seq=0 ttl=30 time=91.838 ms
64 bytes from 216.196.97.169: icmp_seq=1 ttl=30 time=90.979 ms
64 bytes from 216.196.97.169: icmp_seq=2 ttl=30 time=88.100 ms
^C
--- news.mozilla.giganews.com ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 88.100/90.306/91.838/1.599 ms

Comment 5

[HJ]

Pinging news.mozilla.giganews.com [216.196.97.169] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 216.196.97.169:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),


Tracing route to news.mozilla.giganews.com [216.196.97.169]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

108 ms   112 ms   101 ms  cpr1-pos-15-3.virginiaequinix.savvis.net [206.24.227.122]
  *       98 ms     *     cpr1-pos-9-0.VirginiaEquinix.savvis.net [206.24.238.98]
  *        *        *     Request timed out.
  *        *        *     Request timed out.

Comment 6

[Justin Fitzhugh]

Just because you can't ping, doesn't mean that it isn't working.  Just tested from another site which can't ping news.mozilla.org and newsgroup subscription/reading is working fine.

If you are going to reopen again, please provide more data so we can reproduce as we have tested from multiple ISPs/sites and can't reproduce you issue.

Comment 7

[HJ]

(In reply to comment #6)
> Just because you can't ping, doesn't mean that it isn't working. 

Err, I can ping *and* tracert doesn't work *and* I can't subscribe! To me that's a complete different issue.

> Just tested
> from another site which can't ping news.mozilla.org and newsgroup
> subscription/reading is working fine.

I use the newsgroups for over six (6) years without problems, even after the change but now it suddenly stopped working, and you simply resolve this bug as WORKSFORME, but it sure as hell doesn't work for me!

> If you are going to reopen again, please provide more data so we can reproduce
> as we have tested from multiple ISPs/sites and can't reproduce you issue.

What exactly do you need from me?  My settings haven't changed, but you changed DNS and firewalls configurations recently now didn't you?

Comment 8

[HJ]

(In reply to comment #7)
> (In reply to comment #6)
> > Just because you can't ping, doesn't mean that it isn't working. 
> 
> Err, I can ping *and* tracert doesn't work *and* I can't subscribe! To me

Darn, I just woke up: Err, I s/can/can't ping

Comment 9

[Justin Fitzhugh]

(In reply to comment #7)
> (In reply to comment #6)
> > Just because you can't ping, doesn't mean that it isn't working. 
> 
> Err, I can ping *and* tracert doesn't work *and* I can't subscribe! To me
> that's a complete different issue.

If Giganews is blocking pings - that would be normal behavior.  We don't host the news servers so any change we did would have no effect on the news servers.

A more accurate test would be to telnet to port 119 on news.mozilla.org.  If this works, you have nntp connectivity:
telnet news.mozilla.org 119
Trying 216.196.97.169...
Connected to news.mozilla.giganews.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 news.mozilla.org

> > Just tested
> > from another site which can't ping news.mozilla.org and newsgroup
> > subscription/reading is working fine.
> 
> I use the newsgroups for over six (6) years without problems, even after the
> change but now it suddenly stopped working, and you simply resolve this bug as
> WORKSFORME, but it sure as hell doesn't work for me!

I am not sure what "change" you are speaking of, but we didn't change anything on the Firewall - the new hardware was bad and we reverted.  The DNS changes were done at a totally different colocation and would only effect you if you couldn't lookup news.mozilla.org (which you can).  Furthermore, the news servers are not hosted by us so any change we did would not effect connectivity to Giganews.  Finally we have tested from at least 20 locations and it seems to work for everyone else.  I'll need more information to troubleshoot this such as a packet trace or your source IP.  We'd have to ask Giganews what the issue is.
 
> > If you are going to reopen again, please provide more data so we can reproduce
> > as we have tested from multiple ISPs/sites and can't reproduce you issue.
> 
> What exactly do you need from me?  My settings haven't changed, but you changed
> DNS and firewalls configurations recently now didn't you?

No - we didn't.  Again, we'll need more info to reproduce as previously requested.  Based on the info you provided it looks like it is your local ISP's issue as the traceroute dies in their cloud - have you tried calling them?  

Comment 10

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

The spot the traceroute is dying appears to be at a peering point between VirginiaEquinix and Saavis if I had to guess.

I can't traceroute from anywhere to the last hop in your traceroute, either.  They all die at a Washington DC node within Saavis (204.70.192.62).  Which makes Saavis (or the peering point between your ISP and Saavis) a likely culprit.  This would be up to your ISP to deal with since they're your ISP's upstream.

Invalid doesn't mean the bug is invalid, only using it for lack of a more appropriate resolution.  What I mean in this case is "it's a bug, but it's not our bug".

Comment 11

[HJ]

(In reply to comment #9)
> If Giganews is blocking pings - that would be normal behavior.  We don't host
> the news servers so any change we did would have no effect on the news servers.
> A more accurate test would be to telnet to port 119 on news.mozilla.org.  If
> this works, you have nntp connectivity:

Right, and that doesn't work, but only for news.mozilla.org so tell me why I can use all other newsgroups, except this one?

> I am not sure what "change" you are speaking of

I was told that the change for the Google groups cold have effect on it, but I guess that was incorrect info.  When exactly was that change btw?

> work for everyone else.  I'll need more information to troubleshoot this such
> as a packet trace or your source IP.  We'd have to ask Giganews what the issue
> is.

I will have to forward this request to my employer.

> No - we didn't.  Again, we'll need more info to reproduce as previously
> requested.  Based on the info you provided it looks like it is your local ISP's
> issue as the traceroute dies in their cloud - have you tried calling them?  

Tell me something; I can use all other newsgroups including giganews.com where the newsgroups of mozilla.org are hosted (correct?) so why should I ask them for help?

Can people be blocked/banned from the newsgroups?  Is this the problem?  I'm not aware of anything, but I get the funny feeling that something is going on here!

Comment 12

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

(In reply to comment #11)
> Right, and that doesn't work, but only for news.mozilla.org so tell me why I
> can use all other newsgroups, except this one?

Because they're not on the same IP address.  This is a routing issue of some sort, I'm sure.

> I was told that the change for the Google groups cold have effect on it, but I
> guess that was incorrect info.  When exactly was that change btw?

No, that had nothing to do with connectivity, only with configuration on the newsfeed machines (which aren't even the same machine your client connects to)

> Tell me something; I can use all other newsgroups including giganews.com where
> the newsgroups of mozilla.org are hosted (correct?) so why should I ask them
> for help?

news.mozilla.org does have its own IP address, it's not on the same IP with Giganews' other servers.

> Can people be blocked/banned from the newsgroups?  Is this the problem?  I'm
> not aware of anything, but I get the funny feeling that something is going on
> here!

Yes, you can be blocked/banned.  No, we haven't done that to anyone yet.  If we did do it, you would be able to connect and would get an access denied message after connecting, so that's not what's going on.

Comment 13

[HJ]

(In reply to comment #12)

Thanks for your time Dave, and Justin.  Please note that at least two other people on the project lead newsgroup over at mozdev.org had similar problems last week (friday?) so something must be wrong somewhere.

I don't see any packets in tcpdump/ethereal so that won't help nobody, and yes I know how it works.  I like to contact giganews, to see what is going on, or do you guys plan to help me?

Comment 14

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

Just for completeness, I'd gotten HJ's IP address out-of-band and opened a ticket with Giganews just to have them check it from their end...

It turns out his IP address routes through an ISP in Amsterdam that was one of a half-dozen networks banned last week for abusing that binary loophole they found in their software that necessitated taking mozilla.test.multimedia offline for a few days.  Since the bug that was being exploited has since been fixed, the bans will be removed shortly.