41888 - Quickfile: 'File' bookmarks to cascading submenus, to file in folders (on the fly)

Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME

(SeaMonkey :: Bookmarks & History, enhancement)

Description

[beryan]

Can't see how to "File" a bookmark... the option is between "Add Bookmark" and 
"Edit Bookmarks" in the bookmark button menu on NS473.
Might be a dupe (I checked still), or I might be missing something.
Build 

 Mozilla M16 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m16) 
Gecko/2000060708

Comment 1

[Blake Ross]

I know this has been talked about, but I couldn't find a bug on it.  
confirming, I know this is 4xp, but I guess this is pretty much an enhancement 
[unless we've already planned to support this as a feature? slamm?]

Comment 2

[Claudius Gayle]

resummarizing as RFE. Looks like this was a windows only NS4.x feature and AFAIK (I should know) there are no current plans to 
implement it. It's a decent request though, currently all we allow is the choice of a default destination for all added bookmarks, 
but it can't be changed 'on the fly'.

Comment 3

[Claudius Gayle]

*** Bug 42205 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 4

[Adam James Fitzpatrick]

It's not Windows-only; it's certainly on Linux in 4.73, but I think it wasn't in
4.0-4.08. Anyway, I wrote a patch a while ago and attached it to bug 18052
("Bookmarks like 4.x"), but I don't know if it worked for anyone else, or if it
still works now. At any rate, it's only a small amount of js to get it in there.
I'll update it if there's interest.

Comment 5

[Joseph Elwell]

Adam: there's interest!

Comment 6

[Greg Miller]

There's definately interest. I don't how people manage to use bookmarks without
this feature. Of course, it'd be great to have a "delete" menu that works the
same way, too.

Comment 7

[Robert John Churchill]

> I don't how people manage to use bookmarks without this feature.

I think its called the "Bookmarks sidebar panel".   :^)

Comment 8

[beryan]

kewl, see, you coders always like to get out of honest hard work... we all love 
and miss this feature! Could one of you please see if you have somewhere in the 
schedule to slot this one in?? We'll all shut up then :) thx!

Comment 9

[Robert John Churchill]

>  you coders always like to get out of honest hard work

haha

Comment 10

[Blake Ross]

yes, come on rjc, why aren't you doing any work.  we don't care about that -- 
what do you call it? a "sidebar"? -- we want some REAL work...

Comment 11

[Robert John Churchill]

If you knew me, you'd realize that this isn't the way to get your favorite pet 
feature implemented.

Comment 12

[Blake Ross]

rjc: i was just kidding :)

(OS/Platform -> All based on adam's comment)

Comment 13

[Adam James Fitzpatrick]

Attachment: add File Bookmark menu to Bookmarks menu on personal toolbar

Comment 14

[Blake Ross]

Great.  rjc, when you have a moment can you review this?  I'll try it out/test 
it and see how it goes.  reassigning to me and I'll check it in, since slamm's 
on sabbatical.  Thanks Adam!

Comment 15

[Blake Ross]

*** Bug 44726 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 16

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

I believe that having a `File Bookmark' submenu is bad UI, because:
* it is visual duplication of the rest of the Bookmarks menu, with an additional
  level of nesting for a menu which may be heavily nested already;
* sometimes it requires opening of a folder's submenu in order to place a
  bookmark inside that submenu, and sometimes it doesn't, depending on whether or
  not the folder contains subfolders (each folder which contains subfolders needs
  an `Add Bookmark Here' item in its submenu, followed by a separator, followed
  by a list of the subfolders);
* it allows you to specify the folder/subfolder for the bookmark, but doesn't
  allow you to specify exactly where in the folder (top, bottom, or wherever) the
  bookmark should go;
* it still doesn't allow you to specify a title for the bookmark (and given the
  proportion of Web pages with inappropriate TITLEs, you often need to change the
  title to make it an obvious bookmark);
* it still doesn't allow you to specify a keyword for the bookmark;
* it won't allow you to specify options for checking the freshness of the
  bookmark (when such features are eventually implemented).

All of these reasons, except for the first two, mean you often have to open the 
bookmarks list anyway to fine-tune the bookmark.

For this reason, the Aphrodite menu spec has a Bookmark menu which looks roughly 
like this:

  A_dd This Page            Ctrl+D
  Add This Page _As ...     Ctrl+Shift+D
----------------------------------------
  Manage Bookmarks          Ctrl+B
----------------------------------------
  {bookmarks listed here}

`Add This Page As ...' would open a dialog which consists of the contents of the 
Bookmark Properties dialog, plus a tree widget for specifying the exact location 
of the bookmark. (Select an open folder in the tree to place the bookmark at the 
beginning of that folder; select any other item to place the bookmark immediately 
below that item.)

This design:
* solves all the problems listed above;
* is more intuitive, because it works exactly the same way as `Save' and `Save
  As ...' do in the `File' menu of many apps (and the same way as `Paste' and
  `Paste As ...' work in the `Edit' menu of some apps, including those in MS
  Office).

Comment 17

[Greg Miller]

I doubt very many users care about the extra functionality, but it seems
harmless enough.

"Add bookmark here" as an alternative to "File bookmark" does seem like a good
idea, but wouldn't it make sense to do the same thing for the root bookmark menu
instead of treating it as a special case with the "Add bookmark" option? Then
again, a totally consistent system would require adding two extra entries to
each submenu (add bookmark here and add bookmark here as), so maybe the
consistenty isn't worth it.

Comment 18

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

`Add bookmark here' is not an *alternative* to `File bookmark'. It is a *required 
part* of a `File Bookmark' feature, in the submenu for every folder which 
contains subfolders. And that's the one of the things wrong with `File bookmark'.

See any of the 4.x versions which have this feature for reference -- in any 
submenu for a folder which contains submenus, there is an `Add Bookmark Here' 
item (I can't remember the exact wording), then a separator, then a list of the 
subfolders for that folder.

Comment 19

[Greg Miller]

Ah, yes. I see what you mean now. The option in question uses the title of the
folder.

In any event, I'd hate to have the "Add this page as..." option be the only way
to add a bookmark within a folder. Tree controls are rather user confusing, and
the whole feature would seem to be a lot more trouble than "File bookmark" from
a user perspective. An "Add Current Page" option at the top of each folder might
be more elegant than "file bookmark", though, and "add this page as" likely
wouldn't cause any harm as long as its an addition and not a replacement.

Comment 20

[Claudius Gayle]

*** Bug 47599 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 21

[Claudius Gayle]

adding UE2 keyword from dupe. neglected 'helpwanted' kw as this bug contains the 'patch' keyword and those should be mutually 
exclusive.

Comment 22

[Claudius Gayle]

*** Bug 48576 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 23

[Claudius Gayle]

*** Bug 49026 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 24

[Claudius Gayle]

*** Bug 49915 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 25

[johng]

nominating nsbeta3
cc'ing german in UI

recommend that we copy 4.x UI and wording as much as possible here.  One day, we 
will make managing bookmarks much more powerful in a number of ways, but for 
now, this functionality will bring mozilla up to the same level as 4.x.  Using 
the same wording will just communicate that more clearly - no need to reinvent 
the wheel here.

Very glad that someone is jumping on this - this is important functionality that 
 has been left out so far.  Though the Bookmarks Sidebar tab is great, many 
people will not use it and will need to rely on this to manage their bookmarks 
more easily then opening the Manage Bookmarks window.

Comment 26

[Blake Ross]

still waiting for review of this...(can't check it in otherwise)

passing off to rjc as a reminder

Comment 27

[Robert John Churchill]

slamm...

Comment 28

[johng]

nav triage team:
nsbeta3+, P1

Comment 29

[Steve Lamm]

Sure, I'll put this in.

Comment 30

[verah (gone)]

*** Bug 50508 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 31

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

From bug 50508: Alternative implementations would have been bug 50505 (together
with the proxy icon) and bug 50507.

Comment 32

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Bug 50507 happens to be the same as Matthew's suggestion.

Comment 33

[Steve Lamm]

The patch isn't quite the slam dunk I thought it was. The menu gets created 
everytime a brower is created. That's a bit wasteful since some people will 
never use the menu.

Also, the code attaches it to the personal toolbar bookmark folder, but that is 
gone now. (I can move it to the main bookmarks menu). 

There was a bug in the code not refering to this.RDF properly. Finally, I still 
have to move the "File Bookmark" string into a dtd.

Comment 34

[Blake Ross]

Note that the Bookmarks button on the personal toolbar can still be shown easily 
via hyatt's toolbar customizability pref. So it needs to be in both menus.

As a new feature, this will need to be minused soon if it can't be done quickly 
(as much as I'd like to see the feature...)

Comment 35

[R.K.Aa.]

*** Bug 51577 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 36

[Blake Ross]

Renominating for beta3.  Unless there's a complete fix in hand, I don't see how 
Netscape can justify adding completely new features this late in the game.  No, 
I'm not being `the bad guy', I want to see this make it in also, but a browser 
needs to ship and new features are the first to go at this point.  Slamm, if 
you do indeed have the whole fix working properly, please either renominate for 
beta3 or just readd the nsbeta3+.  How much functionality does the partial fix 
that you have offer?

Comment 37

[johng]

nav triage team:
we want to encourage someone at mozilla to fix this patch so it works correctly 
(see slamm's comments), but we are forced to nsbeta3- at this point for internal 
Netscape developers because of schedule constraints.

adding helpwanted keyword and hoping someone might fix it this week.
Also reassigning to matt since slamm won't be here next week.

If someone completes the patch, go ahead and renominate (remove nsbeta3-) to get 
it back on our radar.

Comment 38

[Blake Ross]

Jag, do you want to fix this patch?

Comment 39

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

FYI: This is a requirement for my primary browser (just to stress the importance
- *I* can wait until shortly after N6).
<quote src="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50508">
The user must have the ability to select a folder while adding a bookmark. Just
throwing all new bookmarks into the main structure and requiring the user to go
to the Bookmarks Manager later is no solution - the user would be too lazy and
the bookmarks would just pile up in the main menu.
</quote>

Comment 40

[Steve Lamm]

Attachment: Add "File Bookmark" menu to personal toolbar and toplevel menu

Comment 41

[Steve Lamm]

I added the latest code that I have. My patch fixes some of the problems in 
the original patch. It still needs a couple issues resolved:

  1. Need _isfolder() method for FileBookmarkMenu Object.
  2. Avoid setting up the menu everytime it is posted.

Comment 42

[Robert Kaiser]

There is already a similar feature in MailNews. If you right-click a message,
you get the the submenus "Move to" and "Copy to" which have "file here" items
for every mail folder. Can some of that code be re-used?
(I'm no coder, so I can't tell...)
Nominating for RTM...

Comment 43

[matt]

bookmarks

Comment 44

[don]

Cool feature.  But too late for N6 RTM.  Minus.

Comment 45

[Blake Ross]

Let's try to finish working out the kinks in this patch by 6.01

Comment 46

[Greg Miller]

Definately... I imagine this will be one of the more often mentioned items for
reviewers.

Comment 47

[Blake Ross]

I'm going to try to get this together, if that's ok with ben...

Comment 48

[R.K.Aa.]

*** Bug 61644 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 49

[verah (gone)]

Removing myself from the list of cc's.

Comment 50

[Paul Chen]

nav triage team:

reassigning to German, looks like UI decision

Comment 51

[Blake Ross]

Um, a UI decision?  where?  Since when are assigned and prioritized bugs just 
reassigned without asking?  Back to me.

Comment 52

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Blake, are you still working on this bug?

This bug has been critizied by reviewers (e.g. iX <http://www.heise.de/ix>) of
Netscape 6.

Comment 53

[Fabian Guisset]

*** Bug 64658 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 54

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

*** Bug 65196 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 55

[Dave]

cc self

Comment 56

[Brian 'netdragon' Bober]

See bug 18052 which is about a similiar feature but not identical. Bug 18052 
talks about adding an ability to drag the URL ICON to the bookmarks menu. Bug 
18052 has been around since last December. It would be great if you could drag 
the URL icon (that thing next to the document url) - as stated in bug 18052 
into the bookmarks menu.

Comment 57

[[e-mail]]

I would prefer a "add bookmark to .." dialog that works like IE5's
add favorite dialog, with the option to change the description and
create a new folder on the fly.
The drag and drop feature of NS 4.x i dont like, its too clumsy and
not versatile enough.
The file bookmark option of NS 4.x does only part of what I would like.

Comment 58

[Greg Miller]

Something along those lines would be nice on occasion, but I wouldn't want to
see it replace the File Bookmark option. The 4.x approach has the advantage of
involving much less effort in the common case.

Comment 59

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

`Add Bookmark To ...' is bug 47599.

Comment 60

[Blake Ross]

Passing off to ben, who has this working 
(http://www.silverstone.net.nz/mozilla/dragmenu.png), and saying goodbye to 
weekly emails about this bug and why I haven't fixed it yet...

Comment 61

[Paul Chen]

nav triage team:

changed summary, ben is swamped, not going to happen for beta1, marking nsbeta1-

Comment 62

[Blake Ross]

renominating for the heck of it.  ben has this working...
(http://www.silverstone.net.nz/mozilla/dragmenu.png)

Comment 63

[Paul Chen]

nav triage team:

Marking nsbeta1+

Comment 64

[Viswanath Ramachandran]

nav triage team: this is a P1 nsbeta stopper. Ben, we need to schedule this 
before mozilla0.9. thanks, Vishy

Comment 65

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Mass-change: Do not remove nominations (even if Milestone passed). Readding
mozilla0.8 nomination.

Comment 66

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Ben G: Blake claims you have this working. Is this true? :-) If so, any chance 
of a checkin? 

If not, what's left to do (and am I capable of doing it)?

Gerv

Comment 67

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

Am I missing something here?  Isn't this fixed.  We have 'File Bookmark' and
'File Bookmark As..." The latter opens a file bookmark window that lets you
select the folder and rename the bookmark.  Or are folks asking for a third item
on the menu like in the shot blake attached?  Does anyone else think that 3
methods is a bit much?

Comment 68

[Blake Ross]

`Add Bookmark As...' is going away, but its key binding will remain.  Also, the 
File Bookmarks menubutton in the bookmarks manager is turning into a normal 
button that will launch a dialog.  I think this bug is asking for the menu-
based File Bookmarks functionality to be available from Navigator itself.

Comment 69

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

4.x has a feature on the toolbar bookmarks dropdown (which we have as an 
optional component of the Personal Toolbar) where you go to "File Bookmark" and 
then it presents you a cascading menu of your bookmark folders so you can pick 
one. This bug is exactly about implementing this extremely useful and 
slick-to-use feature.

Gerv

Comment 70

[Viswanath Ramachandran]

nav pretriage: I think we agreed that Ben's Add Bookmark As is going to be the 
File Bookmark we have this time around. Lets move this bug to Muture and make it 
nsbeta1-. 

Comment 71

[Paul Chen]

nav triage team:

We now have the file bookmark option in the bookmarks menu which pops up the file 
bookmark dialog. Marking fixed

Comment 72

[Sean Richardson]

Reopening and resummarizing for clarity; the 4.x feature this RFE is asking for 
is a cascading menu, not a dialog. To put it another way, users of 4.x's
Communicator > Bookmarks > File Bookmarks > cascading menu or Location
toolbar Bookmarks > File Bookmarks > cascading menu would not consider a dialog 
with a tree control for navigating the folders to be an equivalent.

Yes, the File Bookmark dialog (and the Add Bookmark dialog, iff it hasn't
been turned off) provide *a* way to place new bookmarks in a folder chosen
at that time, but the user experience is very different. With a cascading menu,
the bookmark can be filed in one smooth motion using one or two clicks. In 
the dialog, two clicks are the minimum (three if it is invoked from the 
Bookmarks menu rather than the keyboard), and that is only the possible if the
desired folder is already in view. If not, more clicks are necessary, and 
possibly scrolling as well (somewhat avoidable by resizing the dialog, but 
users coming from 4.x won't be likely to realize that at first). 

What had been a matter of direct placement using the cascading menu, 
the first cousin of drag-n-drop, is instead in a dialog a series of actions 
on a completely different model of the underlying bookmarks "document".
Same functionality, but *not* the same feature, and this is an RFE, right?

Clarifying summary from:
  "[RFE]Quickfile: 'File' bookmarks to arbitrary folder as they are  added 
  (on the fly)"
to:
  "[RFE] Quickfile: 'File' bookmarks to cascading submenus, to file in folders
  (on the fly)"
and, being realistic, nominating for mozilla1.1.

Comment 73

[Mark Bitterling]

I agree with Sean.  Although the dialog is a good thing, it is not the same thing 
and I would still like to see the old method of filing bookmarks implemented.

Comment 74

[Viswanath Ramachandran]

moving to Future. 

Comment 75

[Blake Ross]

We agreed not to do this, because we thought that File Bookmark, the sidebar, 
and dnd (onto the Bookmarks button to open it, and then into the folder) would 
be sufficient. Personally, I don't see why drag and drop -- once it works -- is 
any different from the functionality that a File submenu offers, and it's less 
confusing.  However, with 33 votes, this is clearly a desired feature, so I 
think it warrants some more discussion (in the newsgroups) before closing it 
again.  -> Matthew to hopefully drive this discussion.

Comment 76

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

unsetting TM

Comment 77

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> We agreed not to do this

Who is "we"?

Comment 78

[Jacek Piskozub]

10 dups. Marking mostfreq.

Comment 79

[rgparker]

Since the argument about this RFE has lasted so long and repeatedly there have been questions as to what this is and whether this is worth doing I decided to summarize the 4 main ways I'm aware of to file file bookmarks:

1) Get a pop-up dialog box and specify where you want the bookmark to go in it. This is the way that has recently been added to Moz. Its better than nothing. 

2) The way NS 4.x uses. That way is what bug 41888 is about. You request to file a bookmark and up pops a list of top level bookmark folders and you can drill down thru that list rather like the drill down thru the Windows Start button in the Explorer. Just hoveing a mouse over a folder shows its next level down folder members in a cascade.  Its more single step than way 1 as you can drill down without clicking at each level.. OTOH, I really don't like all the cascading lists if you have folders a few levels deep.

3) The drag-and--drop way that IE uses. I happen to like this approach more than the previous two approaches.

4) The "Add To Current" approach that Opera uses. I happen to like this one most of all. I would recommend that anyone who doesn't know Opera take the time try this out and see how it works. Opera also allows other folder-level operations like opening all the bookmarks below a particular folder. 

Anyway, if you folks keep way 1 and implement way 3 it will be a big improvement. However, I think way 4 would be pretty nice and I recommend everyone check out how Opera works in this regard.

Comment 80

[Mark Bitterling]

As rgparker stated, #2 is what this bug is all about.  Even if all three of the 
other methods are implemented, I believe there will still be demand for #2.  All 
the other methods feel like work-arounds to me (if my opinion matters any).

A couple months ago Blake Ross said Ben Goodger had this working and there is a 
screenshot of it posted on Ben's website ( http://www.silverstone.net.nz/mozilla/
dragmenu.png ) with a file date of January 17, 2001.  However, I do not even see 
Ben on the CC list for this bug.  Does he know how much some of us want this?

I realize Ben stays pretty busy and this is an RFE, but if he already has a fix, 
even if it is not perfect, it would be nice if he could attach a patch. Maybe 
someone else can help perfect it if it still has issues.

Comment 81

[Blake Ross]

Maybe this isn't going to win a UI award, but the fact is that lots and lots of 
PR1 users were looking for this functionality, and were dismayed upon realizing 
that it no longer existed.  Drag and drop into specific folders (not via the 
sidebar, via the menu) is a long way off.  I think we need to consider doing 
this.

Comment 82

[Michael Hendy (Hendikins)]

*** Bug 90970 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 83

[Fazal Majid]

The current (as of 0.9.2) behaviour is similar to the way IE works, and it
sucks. Superior bookmark management is the main reason why I stayed with
Netscape (Unix portability being the other). I have over 3000 
bookmarks accumulated since 95 and carefully arranged in a hierarchy that can go
7-8 levels deep, and I add easily ten a day or so. This regression from NS 4.x
is the single worst useability issue I have with Mozilla.

The Bookmarks sidebar is slow, and does not allow horizontal scrolling, which
makes it difficult to file bookmarks in very deep hierarchies.

The popup window is too small and not resizeable, it is also considerably slower
than the NS 4.x spring-loaded file boomarks feature.

In both cases, the sidebar or popup remembers which location the last bookmark
was added. This is good if I were to add boomarks in a sequential fashion, but
that is rarely the case, and it gets in the way of random bookmarks as I have to
collapse the bookmark folders from the previous filing.

Comment 84

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Feh, what is this doing assigned to me? I don't own bookmarks. Reassigning.

Again, I think this feature would suck for the reasons given in my 2000-07-07
comment. There are problems with the `File Bookmark' dialog, but IMO those are
mostly problems with the implementation, rather than the design. If some of
those problems could be fixed, that would be great. If you're interested, nag me
on IRC.

Comment 85

[Christopher Whitt]

While mpt makes some good points in the 2000-07-07 comments about UI
inconsistencies with the 4.7x File Bookmark feature, I have to agree with and
reiterate Mazal's comments above.  The File Bookmark functionality was one of my
favorite parts of 4.7x and I found it extremely convenient.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try to think of alternate solutions that keep
the convenience but avoid the bad UI design.  When there is an alternative to
File bookmarks that can let me put a bookmark where I want it in my hierarchy in
less than 2 clicks and 4 seconds, then I won't be disappointed if File Bookmark
is dropped.  Maybe I just need a faster machine with a huge screen so I can keep
the sidebar open all the time.  I'd rather not, though.

If there isn't a better alternative, then I don't mind if the feature is hidden
from new users, as long I have the ability somehow to quickly put a bookmark
exactly where I want it with a minimum of fuss and mouse events.

Comment 86

[Nathan Bidwell]

yeeha!  Thanks be to blake for work on bug 53707 which (basically) gives me what
I want.

1. Grab bookmark icon next to URL bar
2. Drag over Bookmarks menu on personal toolbar
3. File somewhere inside!

No, it's not quite as intuitive to find, but it works.

Comment 87

[Eugene Savitsky]

It does not work with  folders...

Comment 88

[Blake Ross]

Yes it does, but right now only toplevel folders will open when you drag over 
them, i.e.,

Foo > Bar >

Foo folder will open when you drag over it, but Bar subfolder won't (but you can 
drop on it to file it in the folder.)

Comment 89

[Tim Powell]

Blake, what's the right bug to discuss d&d in the bookmarks menu? Are there
plans to fix the secondary folder opening problems? Also, any plans to allow d&d
to other folders on the personal toolbar (besides the bookmarks menu)?

Comment 90

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

tpowell, try reading Nathan's comment again.

Meanwhile, I filed bug 99860 on making the File Bookmark dialog less annoying.

Comment 91

[timeless]

*** Bug 111977 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 92

[Blake Ross]

*** Bug 50505 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 93

[Eric Vaandering (no email)]

Isn't this bug fixed? I see there are other things being discussed towards the
end, but it seems to me the Summary and the posters original RFE have ben
addressed for a long time now.

Comment 94

[Mark Bitterling]

No this bug should not be closed. This bug has been an RFE for filing of
bookmarks in the manner available the menus in Netscape 4.x and that has not yet
been made possible.  

I am still hoping that one of these days Ben will attach the code that he was
working on when he made the screenshot at
http://www.silverstone.net.nz/mozilla/dragmenu.png last January.

Also, this bug should not be closed because Blake recently closed bug #50505 as
a dupe of this bug.  

Personally I am not sure that #50505 should have been grouped with this one. 
Especially not without adding info about the RFE of that bug to this one. This
bug has also been appropriately marked as 4xp, but #50505 was not 4xp.  Also
#50505 blocked #19437 - so if the functionality requested in that bug is now
part of this bug then shouldn't this bug block #19437?

Regardless, neither bug has been resolved yet.

Comment 95

[Blake Ross]

-> ben

Comment 96

[Jesse Ruderman]

I agree with mpt that this bug should be wontfixed and bug 99860 fixed.  It
would look silly to have "Add bookmark", "File bookmark...", and "File bookmark
>" all on the bookmarks menu.

Blake, did you mean to mark bug 50505 as a dup?  The two bugs seem orthogonal.

Comment 97

[Christopher Whitt]

I think 99860 should be fixed - I agree with usability arguments for it.  I
would personally prefer this bug to be fixed as well.

I don't particularly mind if the fix for this bug is not exactly what the
summary and comments describe.  For me, it doesn't have to be given a menu item,
nor does it have to be very discoverable.

What I DO DESPERATELY want is a ONE-CLICK way to file a bookmark to the current
page in any arbitrary subfolder of my bookmarks hierarchy.  The current dnd
ability of the bookmarks item on the personal toolbar is a halfway compromise,
iff it is patched to allow filing in subfolders.  I'd rather not be forced to
have the personal toolbar open and chew up space on the toolbar for bookmark
filing, but beggars can't be choosers.

I would like to help in the fixing of this bug as much as possible, but I admit
that I don't have the codebase familiarity, or even the time, to do it myself.

Comment 98

[Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email)]

reassigning to blake for him to mark as FIXED as I think he's done this via d&d. 

Comment 99

[Jan D.]

Just a user, but this is nit fixed IMHO.  I agree with comment 97, the real
great thing about NS 4.x "File bookmark" was that it was one click to put
bookmarks in any bookmark folder.

Running nightly 2002030406 there is no sign of any fix (running GNU/Linux
anyway).  There is no way at all to dnd any bookmark anywhere exept the sidebar
and that is no fix since it is not one click.  To get that to work you need to:
First select View -> Sidebar form the menus.
Then click on the bookmark tab.
Then go to the dnd-object in the location field.
Then you can drag it to where you want.
Then select View -> Sidebar again from the menu (as I don't need the sidebar to
take up space).

This procedure is nowhere near the 4.x "File bookmark" function.

Comment 100

[beryan]

>From Jan D. 2002-03-04 10:42 -------
>Just a user, but this is nit fixed IMHO.  I agree with comment 97, the real
>great thing about NS 4.x "File bookmark" was that it was one click to put
>bookmarks in any bookmark folder.

Absolutely.
I filed this bug almost 2 years ago.
Since then, there has been much ado about UI cleanliness, ugliness, b0rkness,
etc. Significant votes/interest have been registered/expressed.
People have argued; pleaded; defended; rank-pulled; whitewashed.
But still we receive no acknowledgement that our (user) needs are valid.
We do get assistance, but this is a shame because it's often misguided - 
this wastes the developer's time, because invariably the 'fix' doesn't satisfy
the user's needs. Instead the user gets a feature which is related to the one
(s)he's requesting, but doesn't resolve the UI challenge that user faces.

The proposed 'fix' is not a fix for this bug, but a new feature related to this
bug. Nobody requested that new feature (in this bug anyway), so is this a prime
example of 'bloatware'? A feature that lacks functionality and subsequently
never used is worse than not fixing the bug at all.

To reiterate; the NS4.x "File Bookmark" feature in bookmarks is without peer for
managing bookmarks. "File Bookmark" under Mozilla is sort-of useful, but no
match for the power and ease
of on-the-fly filing into a cascaded tree.

If the impediment to implementing a fix for this bug is technical difficulty,
well and good.
Thanks for your efforts. If it's a moral/political thing, it's not well and good.
Our communities are renowned for hating red-tape and for being actioning people.
Let's keep the anal management-style obstructionism out in the commercial world :)
Anyway, this might be taken as a rant (might?) so I'll e0f it there.

THIS BUG IS NOT RESOLVED SATISFACTORILY - IT REMAINS UNRESOLVED. DO NOT CLOSE.
Poor old Gerv or whoever filters the bugs don't need to triage another bug,
and I don't want to open another one.

cheers

Comment 101

[Blake Ross]

-> ben

Comment 102

[Doug]

agree with #100.  the single-click "file bookmark" capability was one of the
things i really liked about NS4.  one of the things that kept me from migrating
to IE for so long.  now it's just like IE :-(

Comment 103

[Jesse Ruderman]

Does Mozilla really need a fifth way to file a bookmark cluttering the Bookmarks
menu?  It seems to me that existing methods are about the same speed.

Bookmarks, File Bookmark > (bug 41888), select folder, File Here:
3-part drag, differs from how menus usually work ("File Here", deep nesting).

Drag proxy icon to bookmarks menu (bug 141292), select folder, move into folder
(bug 100479):
3-part drag, folders are in same positions as in bookmarks menu for familiarity,
but less discoverable.

Bookmarks, File Bookmark..., select folder, click ok:
1 short drag or keyboard shortcut and two clicks.

Ctrl+Shift+D, tab, tab, press first letter of folder (bug 133366), enter:
5 keypresses, no hover delays.

Add now, file later:
2 drags on average.

The drag-into-menu method could be cut to two drags by allowing drops directly
onto folders (like in the bookmark manager), at the expense of making the target
areas smaller and making Mozilla differ Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer.

Comment 104

[Christopher Whitt]

Well, I hate to belabor this discussion since most of the issues have been beat
to death already.  In response to jrudermand, I don't think Mozilla needs a
fifth way to file bookmarks.  I'll settle for one or two really good methods.

jruderman unintentionally identified the problem by saying "It seems to me that
existing methods are about the same speed".  None of them are as fast and
convenient as the NS 4.x File Bookmarks cascading menu feature.

Dragging and dropping into the bookmarks Personal Toolbar Item might almost
satisfy me personally, except for the fact that I can't control were that
Bookmarks item appears.  My personal toolbar is already full.  I could
conceivably put all of my main bookmark folders into the toolbar and use dnd,
but I really want to keep individual bookmarks there.

Perhaps if the main bookmarks menu item could accept dnd, that might be a more
elegant solution.  That would fix one of the usability problems of the 4.x
solution: the stupid "Add Bookmark Here" items in the 4.x cascading menus.  Is
there some usability reason why dnd would be bad for the main Bookmarks menu item?

I have to agree with the reporter in comment #100 - this isn't fixed.  I don't
really mind personally if the solution isn't really discoverable.  The more I
think about the more I like the idea of replacing the 4.x File Bookmark...
cascading submenu with dnd capability in the Bookmarks menu.  Windows users are
becoming accustomed to this ability in menus anyway, since the Win98 and WinXP
start menus allow dnd.  I haven't used IE in a long time, but I vaguely remember
something similar there.

Comment 105

[Robert Wall]

*** Bug 150833 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 106

[Robert Wall]

*** Bug 167981 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 107

[Robert Wall]

*** Bug 167980 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 108

[Craig]

IMHO, the worst thing about the current situation is that it looks like it might
be decent and then surprises you by being ****.

I do "file bookmark" and see a set of folders with the little "+" box symbols.
Cool, I think. It's more work than NS4.x, but not too bad. Click on the "+" box,
it changes to a "-" box and that's it. I can't determine where my bookmark will
go (within the desired folder) but instead have to separately do "manage
bookmarks", drill down to where my bookmark was placed, move it to where I
actually want it!

This is horribly slow and horribly misleading. If clicking on the little "+" box
isn't going to show what bookmarks are in the folder so that we can position the
new one where we want it, then the useless little "+" box shouldn't be there at all.

Comment 109

[Jesse Ruderman]

Craig: that's bug 76525.

Comment 110

[Kim Scarborough]

Hey, sorry about this, but I'm a little confused. According to comment 62,
almost two years ago, "ben has this working". Whatever happened with that? The
screen shot link is dead, but the web archive link
(http://web.archive.org/web/20010811152115/http%3A//silverstone.net.nz/mozilla/dragmenu.png)
shows a tempting preview.

Just curious...

Comment 111

[Chris Lyon]

*** Bug 196697 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 112

[Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email)]

Mass reassign of my non-Firefox bugs to [e-mail]

Comment 113

[R.K.Aa.]

*** Bug 240011 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 114

[Stefan Borggraefe]

*** Bug 240011 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 115

[Bogdan Stroe]

*** Bug 243310 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 116

[Peter Weilbacher]

Did everyone just get tired of the non-progress or are users now adapted to the
way it works in the Mozilla Suite? Would the way it is described in bug 111972
(using the sidebar) satisfy most users? Even if someone comes up with the way it
was discussed in this bug before, it is unlikely to end up in Mozilla because
there seems to be a lack of interest in reviewing UI patches.

My suggestion would be to make use of the two different places with access to
the  bookmarks (in the main menu and in the personal toolbar), and implement
different functions in both locations. The main menu item stays as it is, but
the two items  File Bookmarks and Bookmarks this group of tabs get changed into
the cascading submenus. Then it at least makes sense to have two different
access points to the bookmarks because they have different functions.

I probably do not have enough knowledge (yet) to implement this, so this is just
to post some idea, as I just happen to look through the various open bugs on
bookmark handling...

Comment 117

[Mark Bitterling]

I would not normally spam the bug like this, but I would not want anyone to think that there is no 
interest in this bug. 

I suspect that Ben's code has bitrotted over time if he even still has it. For some reason he never 
attached his code to this bug. Now Ben apparently considers this bug to be "obsolete" despite the fact 
that Mozilla does not have anything truly comparable to the Netscape 4 quick filing. So I do not really 
expect it to be a high priority on his list.

However, nearly every day I miss this method of filing bookmarks.  I belive it is superior to the current 
options.  I would be thrilled to see it implemented again.  Since this bug as acquired a few duplicates 
this year, I would assume that I am not the only person who feels that way.

Comment 118

[Jan D.]

I agree with the previous comment, I also want this fixed.  I never use the
sidebar, it is a waste of screen estate IMHO.  So bookmarking there becomes a
lot of clicking, see my comment #99.  The NS 4.x way is so superior.

Comment 119

[LENHOF Jean-Yves]

I know this bug is tagged as Mozilla Application Suite...

But for your information there's this extension for Firefox, "Add Bookmark Here"
http://gorgias.de/mfe/

I think there's little work to be done to port it to mozilla

Comment 120

[Jan D.]

The Firefox extension "Add Bookmark Here" is nice, but not the same thing as the
NS 4.x feature.  While "Add Bookmark Here" adds a bookmark to the end of a
bookmark folder, the NS 4.x feature lets you add a bookmark anywhere within a
folder with just menu navigation.

Comment 121

[Peter Weilbacher]

I don't understand the last comment, how do you add a bookmark at a defined
place within a bookmarks folder in NS 4.x? Attachment 11080 [details] (from bug 44726 that
is a dupe of this one) shows that only folders are displayed within the
cascading menu. This is exactly how I see in in NS 4.78 on Linux and NS 4.61 on
OS/2 and in effect is what the mentioned extension does (apart from the visual
differences)...

Comment 122

[Jan D.]

Ah, the extension seems to have problems on OSX, I didn't get any "Add Bookmark
here" on any folders other that the top level and the level below that (and
multiple Add Bookmark Here menu entries, it added one after each restart).  On
Linux I get them on all subfolders, so there it parallells the NS4 feature.

Comment 123

[Paul Tomlin]

Not sure if this is still active but I think the Quick File extension for
Thunderbird does a reasonable job for keyboard based filing of messages into the
MailNewsFolders heirarchy. Maybe something similar could be done for bookmarks.
I've pondered about it before but not managed to pull thumb.

There is a new-ish bug 295532 which I think would help to make this more
possible if implemented but I have no idea which version of auto-complete suite
uses.

Comment 124

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

isn't this WFM?  ctrl-d lets one pick the folder. Drag and drop to folders
likewise drills through folders.

Comment 125

[Mark Bitterling]

(In reply to comment #121)
> I don't understand the last comment, how do you add a bookmark at a defined
> place within a bookmarks folder in NS 4.x? Attachment 11080 [details] [edit] (from bug 44726 that
> is a dupe of this one) shows that only folders are displayed within the
> cascading menu. This is exactly how I see in in NS 4.78 on Linux and NS 4.61 on
> OS/2 and in effect is what the mentioned extension does (apart from the visual
> differences)...

Huh?  That attachment shows bookmarks as well as folders in the cascading menu.  

(In reply to comment #124)
> isn't this WFM?  ctrl-d lets one pick the folder. Drag and drop to folders
> likewise drills through folders.

It does not WFM.  Whereas Netscape 4.x allowed me to quickly and easily choose the placement of a 
new bookmark within a specific folder, neither Mozilla nor Firefox currently enables me to file 
Bookmarks as easily.  The above mentioned Firefox extension still does not work correctly on OS X and 
AFAIK there is not any comparable extension for Mozilla on any platform.

Comment 126

[Peter Weilbacher]

(In reply to comment #125)
> Huh?  That attachment shows bookmarks as well as folders in the cascading menu.  

Yes? Which of the items under "File Bookmarks" is a single bookmark as opposed
to a folder? And how do you then choose to let the new bookmark drop between two
existing entries?

Comment 127

[Garth Wallace]

On Windows I can drag-and-drop the favicon from the location bar anywhere in the
personal toolbar or any folder on the personal toolbar (including the bookmarks
folder). Does this not work on other platforms?

Comment 128

[James B. Higgs]

(In reply to comment #79)
> Since the argument about this RFE has lasted so long and repeatedly there have
> been questions as to what this is and whether this is worth doing I decided to
> summarize the 4 main ways I'm aware of to file file bookmarks:
> 
> 1) Get a pop-up dialog box and specify where you want the bookmark to go in it.
> This is the way that has recently been added to Moz. Its better than nothing. 
> 
> 2) The way NS 4.x uses. That way is what bug 41888 is about. You request to
> file a bookmark and up pops a list of top level bookmark folders and you can
> drill down thru that list rather like the drill down thru the Windows Start
> button in the Explorer. Just hoveing a mouse over a folder shows its next level
> down folder members in a cascade.  Its more single step than way 1 as you can
> drill down without clicking at each level.. OTOH, I really don't like all the
> cascading lists if you have folders a few levels deep.
> 
> 3) The drag-and--drop way that IE uses. I happen to like this approach more
> than the previous two approaches.
> 
> 4) The "Add To Current" approach that Opera uses. I happen to like this one
> most of all. I would recommend that anyone who doesn't know Opera take the time
> try this out and see how it works. Opera also allows other folder-level
> operations like opening all the bookmarks below a particular folder. 
> 
> Anyway, if you folks keep way 1 and implement way 3 it will be a big
> improvement. However, I think way 4 would be pretty nice and I recommend
> everyone check out how Opera works in this regard.
> 

#3 Is what I want for Mozilla. While the "Manage Bookmarks" window is useful, it would be really great to be able to move bookmarks around in the menu system by drag'n'dropping them on the fly. Especially if you could do this with entire folders.

Comment 129

[Garth Wallace]

#3 seems to work already in Windows, actually. Try it.

Comment 130

[Phoenix]

In File Bookmark you can choose needed folder to save bookmark to and drag of favicon to needed folder too, so closing this as WFM