435688 - too many bogus bounce messages from [e-mail]

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(mozilla.org Graveyard :: Server Operations, task)

Description

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

I am the list owner of several mailing lists served by lists.mozilla.org.
I have the list server configured to send me "uncaught bounce messages" 
(messages sent to the bounce address that are not recognizable bounce 
messages).

In the last 48 hours, I have have received 23 such bogus bounce messages 
from [e-mail].  Each message says:

> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
> THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.
> YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
> Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:
>    (someone)@pc1.papaya.me.uk
> Message will be retried for (some number) more day(s)

Apparently, the mail server for pc1.papaya.me.uk is not receiving 
incoming email messages.  The googlemail.com mail server keeps trying, 
over and over, every few hours, to send emails from the list to that server, 
and every time it fails, the googlemail.com server sends me another of those 
bogus bounce messages.  Friday, I suspended the subscriptions for all 
subscribers on pc1.papaya.me.uk, so our list server should not be sending
any more emails to them, but the bounces continue.  It appears that the 
googlemail server is still attempting to send the same old messages over and
over.  Somebody at googlemail needs to be smacked, hard.

Can we get the googlemail.com admins to fix their server to stop sending
those @#&* bogus bounce messages?  
Can we stop sending outgoing list email through googlemail.com?

Comment 1

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: typical bogus bounce message

Comment 2

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: another example, bounce of message from Frank Hecker

Comment 3

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

We don't send mail through googlemail.com.  The subscriber who's bouncing has a gmail account, and has their gmail account forwarded to pc1.papaya.me.uk.  So to stop the bounces you would not need to disabled people from pc1.papaya.me.uk, but disable someone from gmail.com.

I just enabled mandatory VERP on all outgoing messages, that should tell us who it is the next time an outgoing message bounces.

Comment 4

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Dave,  The two email addresses in pc1.papaya.me.uk ARE (or were) directly 
subscribed to the lists.  

Is it possible that pc1.papaya.me.uk uses googlemail as its MX server?

Comment 5

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

(In reply to comment #4)
> Dave,  The two email addresses in pc1.papaya.me.uk ARE (or were) directly 
> subscribed to the lists.  

I didn't say they weren't.

> Is it possible that pc1.papaya.me.uk uses googlemail as its MX server?

macbook:~ dave$ host -t mx pc1.papaya.me.uk
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 1 ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 5 ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 5 ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 10 ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 10 ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 10 ASPMX4.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
pc1.papaya.me.uk mail is handled by 10 ASPMX5.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.

Yep, looks like it.

Comment 6

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

In which case, you've already fixed the problem by disabling their mail.  Googlemail is doing exactly what they're supposed to by sending bounces when it can't deliver.  The last 4-hour bounce should come 4 hours after the last message sent before you unsubscribed them.

Comment 7

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

(In reply to comment #6)
>  The last 4-hour bounce should come 4 hours after the last
> message sent before you unsubscribed them.

It's now Monday afternoon, and I'm continuing to receive bounce messages
about emails that were sent Friday.  Looks like I get one bounce per day
for each email that was sent to the list on Friday or Saturday.  I'm now
discarding all bounces from googlemail.com.  Enough is enough.

I wish there was a way to ban subscriptions from email addresses that use
googlemail as their MX server.