Closed Bug 467578 Opened 16 years ago Closed 6 years ago

Wish list for Tabbed feature improvements

Categories

(Penelope Graveyard :: General, enhancement)

Product:
Penelope Graveyard
Component:
General
Type:
enhancement
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: wb8foz, Assigned: mdudziak)

Details

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.0.4) Gecko/2008102920 Firefox/3.0.4
Build Identifier: 8.0.0.b4

Bug 375993 is about tabbed mail. I've been espousing on enhancements to the Tabbed feature to make it more useful; and think they should really be in a Enhancements Bug entry... so I have started one... 

Tab-lovers; we can add/discuss/squabble over what's needed.

 

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1.
2.
3.



A) Opening a message as a tab as a default. i.e. Click on a message, a tab opens with it. Ditto Compose.

B) Color-coding of accounts so that its open tabs, be they mailboxes or messages, show as that tint.

C) Minimization; each mailbox/message can be open once, no dups. A reopen jumps you to the existing one.

D) Flexible labels: i.e. not just "inbox" [which the IMAP server requires]

E) Startup options: when Eudora starts, these Favorite tabs shall open. A way to return to that w/o restarting as well. [Close all tabs and hit splat-1 maybe?] AND/OR start with NO memory as to what was open at last close..

F) Active tab gets BOLD font on tag

E) Top label should reflect active tab.
(In reply to comment #0)
> A) Opening a message as a tab as a default. i.e. Click on a message, a tab
> opens with it. Ditto Compose.

This is done.  See bug 463720.

 
> B) Color-coding of accounts so that its open tabs, be they mailboxes or
> messages, show as that tint.

Interesting.  This should probably tie in with tags.


> C) Minimization; each mailbox/message can be open once, no dups. A reopen jumps
> you to the existing one.

This works with top-level windows, but not with tabs.  It gets a little complicated as to where you should look for messages/mailboxes.  If a mailbox is open in a tab in another window should that window and tab come to the foreground if you attempt to open the mailbox from another window?  I'm thinking it should look for dupes in the current window only.


> D) Flexible labels: i.e. not just "inbox" [which the IMAP server requires]

You mean you want the user to be able to arbitrarily name what tabs will say for particular mailboxes.  I sort of see how this could be useful to a very small set of users, but it's going to get a really low priority.  There's only a small number of mailboxes that you can't rename to whatever you want (system mailboxes such as Inbox, Outbox, Sent, Trash, Junk, etc.)


> E) Startup options: when Eudora starts, these Favorite tabs shall open. A way
> to return to that w/o restarting as well. [Close all tabs and hit splat-1
> maybe?] AND/OR start with NO memory as to what was open at last close..

You mean not just remembering what windows/tabs were opened when the last session quit (which Penelope does now), but the ability at any time to open up a custom set of tabs/windows?  Not sure of the demand of that one.  I think opening up what was opened before is what most users want.  Starting up with a fresh slate would be a no-brainer feature to add.


> F) Active tab gets BOLD font on tag

You could probably do this today with a userChrome.css file: <http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html#usercss>.


> E) Top label should reflect active tab.

Yes, this sounds good.  Right now it only uses the title of the first tab.  It should either use the title of the current tab, or none at all (i.e. just app name), with an option to choose between the two.
(In reply to comment #1)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> > A) Opening a message as a tab as a default. i.e. Click on a message, a tab
> > opens with it. Ditto Compose.
> 
> This is done.  See bug 463720.

I forgot to note that tabs currently can only contain mailboxes and display of messages.  No composition in tabs.
A) Ahh, done but NSFW, OK...

B) I was thinking you'd colorcode the whole account via Account Settings. The colors show in the mailbox tree [if you show that] and the tabs. Also I guess somewhere on an untabbed window's label.

B2) Also colorcode Outgoing Servers; that shows up in composition window From line. Common theme: we all have more mailboxes/accounts than we did 15 years ago.

D) Yes, change/alter the display name of tabs. Color-coding would pehaps eliminate that need but I now have four separate "Inbox" tabs; and how do I know which is which? I can not rename the IMAP Inboxes. 

E/G) {oops} Top label would help on D confusion..

C) I can see it's complex to accomplish but consider this; users are going back to a mailbox, or a message. Where it is now open is secondary; I just want to get back to *there* and keep reading/typing; why would I want to open it yet again? 

Maybe single-window full-tab aka 463720 will reduce the confusion but.... This a major rant of mine in T-Bird WIndows;  Not only are they in the OS's task bar {and closing the last one open kills Eudora, ooops...} but I end up with 14 tabs open every time....  I never had the issue in Windows Eudora.

F) OK; I thought it would be a css-type solution.

E) Consider two startup modes:

e1: What I had open last time. Useful for crashes, laptop repower, etc.

e2: Start up with my Favorites opening. I'm starting up for the day; I'll need my Usual Suspects. 

Now, e2 might be a post-start key command. "Dump what's open, and let me see the Usual Suspects again".

A clearall is nice, especially if you are plagued with [Bug 464616].....

Can the initial mailbox tree be a tab? Startup mode has that as initial tab maybe?

No composition tab... Bummer, but not fatal if everything else works.


H) Lockdown mode config choice: You shall not open new windows, just new tabs [except Composition Windows.

J) Keyboard shortcuts for cycling through windows [exists now] and tabs. Flexibility in allowing/assigning such. [I *HATE* FF's use of the arrow keys to rotate through tabs; if only I could disable it ...]
(In reply to comment #3)
> D) Yes, change/alter the display name of tabs. Color-coding would pehaps
> eliminate that need but I now have four separate "Inbox" tabs; and how do I
> know which is which? I can not rename the IMAP Inboxes. 

In the latest versions of TB (3.0 beta 1, and so Eudora 8 beta 5 as well) the account name is appended to the mailbox name on the tab.  So it now says "Inbox - My IMAP Account" and "Trash - Local Folders".

 
> C) I can see it's complex to accomplish but consider this; users are going back
> to a mailbox, or a message. Where it is now open is secondary; I just want to
> get back to *there* and keep reading/typing; why would I want to open it yet
> again? 

For example, it's going to seem strange from a UI perspective that if you go to open a message from a mailbox in to a tab that a different window is going to come to the foreground, and a different tab from that window could get brought to the front.  And common UI behaviors will get broken, like opening up a message from a mailbox and then closing that message when done with it will not necessarily bring you back to the original mailbox.

 
> Maybe single-window full-tab aka 463720 will reduce the confusion but....

I've been thinking that this is a way to frame the behavior.  I think there will be a lot of users who will only have one window open with multiple tabs.  Then another model is the 2-pane mode, where you've got a separate "Mailboxes" window (folder pane view) and then specific mailboxes opened in separate windows.  In the first mode Eudora will look for already existing items in a tab in that main window, and in the second mode it will look for them in separate windows.

> This
> a major rant of mine in T-Bird WIndows;  Not only are they in the OS's task bar
> {and closing the last one open kills Eudora, ooops...} but I end up with 14
> tabs open every time....  I never had the issue in Windows Eudora.

I think this could be easily solved programmatically by setting the flag on secondary windows to not show up on the OS taskbar.


> E) Consider two startup modes:
> 
> e1: What I had open last time. Useful for crashes, laptop repower, etc.
> 
> e2: Start up with my Favorites opening. I'm starting up for the day; I'll need
> my Usual Suspects. 

Maybe.  I just wonder if e1 == e2 for most users.

 
> Can the initial mailbox tree be a tab? Startup mode has that as initial tab
> maybe?

Have you looked at 2-pane mode?  The Mailboxes window isn't a tab, but maybe that would work for you?  Give it a try.
(In reply to comment #1)
> > E) Top label should reflect active tab.
> 
> Yes, this sounds good.  Right now it only uses the title of the first tab.  It
> should either use the title of the current tab, or none at all (i.e. just app
> name), with an option to choose between the two.

This actually looks like a bug in Thunderbird. If you open up multiple mailbox tabs, then the title reflects the tab. If you open up a message tab, the title reflects the last selected mailbox tab. I've noticed that the title flickers as you change tabs, hence I think there's something not quite right in there. It could be intentional, but I've raised bug 467888 to cover it.
> 
> In the latest versions of TB (3.0 beta 1, and so Eudora 8 beta 5 as well) the
> account name is appended to the mailbox name on the tab.  So it now says
> "Inbox - My IMAP Account" and "Trash - Local Folders".

What part of that long name will show up in the tab? I have 4 IMAP accounts
with the same login so what I really need is not unique until even later in the name...

{dup suppression}
> For example, it's going to seem strange from a UI perspective 

I know zip about UI design and know you know lots, so I'll not fight hard. But I still long for classic Eudora behaviour in this area.



>> Maybe single-window full-tab aka 463720 will reduce the confusion but....
> 
> I've been thinking that this is a way to frame the behavior.  I think there
> will be a lot of users who will only have one window open with multiple tabs.
> Then another model is the 2-pane mode, where you've got a separate "Mailboxes"
> window (folder pane view) and then specific mailboxes opened in separate
> windows.  In the first mode Eudora will look for already existing items in a
> tab in that main window, and in the second mode it will look for them in
> separate windows.

I'd have to think about this and maybe try it. 



> Have you looked at 2-pane mode?  The Mailboxes window isn't a tab, but maybe
> that would work for you?  Give it a try.

I far prefer 2-Pane mode BUT 387027 gets me if I do. I inevitably close the Mailboxes window then need it again; I must then either close all windows and open from the dock; OR change to 3-pane mode.


More thoughts: In FF, I like to make windows of tabs, grouped by content. Classic case is I open a new window, start Google News. Splat-click 5 or 6 articles in GN, they open tabs and load as I read the rest of the GN page. When done with all, I close that window. The other window[s] is/are unaltered.

I try to do that now with Eudora  [see 439090] but the various limits/bugs make it iffy. 

But say you DO have 3 multi-tab windows. Visualize the tab bar as a horizontal rolling cylinder, with small roll up/down buttons at the far right {& keyboard cmds}. You can instantly move from Window1's tab collection inc. the selected one to Window2 etc.  Rolling off 1 preserves its active tab for your roll back.

Does this make any sense?
(In reply to comment #6)
> What part of that long name will show up in the tab? I have 4 IMAP accounts
> with the same login so what I really need is not unique until even later in the
> name...

It's the name that you gave the account, not the login.  It's the same thing that shows up in the root of the account folder in the folder tree.  You can rename an account at any time, so it's fully customizable as to how you want to differentiate accounts.

 
> {dup suppression}
> > For example, it's going to seem strange from a UI perspective 
> 
> I know zip about UI design and know you know lots, so I'll not fight hard. But
> I still long for classic Eudora behaviour in this area.

It's hard to compare this issue against Classic Eudora because Classic Eudora has a limitation that isn't there in TB, which is that Classic Eudora can't handle multiple views on the same mailbox.  TB can have multiple views on the same mailbox, and the single-click on a mailbox in the folder tree makes it easy to wind up having multiple views on the same mailbox.  2-pane mode eases that, and makes it a better candidate for reducing dupe windows.


> I far prefer 2-Pane mode BUT 387027 gets me if I do. I inevitably close the
> Mailboxes window then need it again; I must then either close all windows and
> open from the dock; OR change to 3-pane mode.

OK, well this bug needs to be fixed.  Hopefully that will help you to be in 2-pane mode, which is the UI model I think you're going to like the best.
>  TB can have multiple views on the same mailbox, and the single-click 
>  on a mailbox in the folder tree makes it easy to wind up having 
>  multiple views on the same mailbox.

An about.config setting to disable multiple views, maybe??
(In reply to comment #7)
> More thoughts: In FF, I like to make windows of tabs, grouped by content.
> Classic case is I open a new window, start Google News. Splat-click 5 or 6
> articles in GN, they open tabs and load as I read the rest of the GN page. When
> done with all, I close that window. The other window[s] is/are unaltered.
> 
> I try to do that now with Eudora  [see 439090] but the various limits/bugs make
> it iffy. 

Bug 439090 is a separate issue as it involves bringing up an external app (web browser in that case) to handle clicks of web links in the email app.  If what you're really wanting is mail and web browsing integrated together in the same app, maybe Sea Monkey is what you're looking for?

If what you mean is that you want similar behavior as what FF does, then I think we're very close.  Your main complaint seems to be that opening up content in a new tab causes focus to go to the new tab and you want it to stay in the original tab.  Seems like that would be an easy pref to implement.


> But say you DO have 3 multi-tab windows. Visualize the tab bar as a horizontal
> rolling cylinder, with small roll up/down buttons at the far right {& keyboard
> cmds}. You can instantly move from Window1's tab collection inc. the selected
> one to Window2 etc.  Rolling off 1 preserves its active tab for your roll back.
> 
> Does this make any sense?

Sort of, but it sounds very complicated.  Why do you have multiple windows when it seems like you want to treat all of the windows the same (e.g. you don't care where the window is located, you just want it to come to the foreground when you call it up)?  Why not just have one window that has many tabs?  It's the two levels of organization (top-level windows and tabs) that really complicates things here.
(In reply to comment #9)
> >  TB can have multiple views on the same mailbox, and the single-click 
> >  on a mailbox in the folder tree makes it easy to wind up having 
> >  multiple views on the same mailbox.
> 
> An about.config setting to disable multiple views, maybe??

You can't with single-click to view mailboxes.  It would be really bizarre to single-click on a mailbox in the folder tree and have that bring a tab in another window to the foreground!
 >  If what you mean is that you want similar behavior as what FF does, 
 > then I think we're very close. 

Exactly, thank you.


> Why do you have multiple windows when it seems like you want to treat 
> all of the windows the same (e.g. you don't care where the window is 
> located, you just want it to come to the foreground when you call it up)? 
> Why not just have one window that has many tabs? 

Because I want to group mails by some criteria, and change between the groups; then clean up by closing the whole window when I'm done with that group for now. 

Say one window with 6 tabs for work stuff, on the Work account. Another for personal stuff; ebay questions or whatever. Flip quickly between same.

OK on the tab names, now I follow; but I still like coloring both tabs and Compose From: It can be embarrassing to send mail From: the wrong account.
>> e2: Start up with my Favorites opening. I'm starting up for the day; I'll need
>> my Usual Suspects. 

>Maybe.  I just wonder if e1 == e2 for most users.

New thought -- If/when we can put mailboxes shortcuts into the toolbar, & have horz. toolbars, as I used to do in Classic; then my request might well be moot.
(In reply to comment #13)
> New thought -- If/when we can put mailboxes shortcuts into the toolbar, & have
> horz. toolbars, as I used to do in Classic; then my request might well be moot.

You can put mailboxes on the toolbar with Penelope/Eudora 8.  Right-click on the toolbar and select Customize.  Then click on the Mailboxes tab and drag any of your mailboxes on to the toolbar.

Another UI is to use the Favorite Folders view in the folder pane.
Could/should the Toolbar Window dropdown of open windows distinctly mark those windows that have tabs within them?

It currently marks the front one with a checkmark, and [commendably..] it shows the title of the current tab.

But it does not indicate that a window is sole or tabbed. 

It might also indicate the current tab is a message, not a mailbox.
Expanding on my wish for colors....

Mac "Expose" lets you take an app like Eudora with say 9 windows atop each other, and immediately shift to a display showing a 3x3 screen with miniature views of each of the 9. When you mouse-over a screen it tells you the mailbox or message in question. The you click and it's on top of the stack.

I asked for your accounts to be color coded. If the background of each Expose mini-screen was that of the account....it would be faster to move between them.

Say I have 6 windows open. The first is Mailboxes; it's white. Then my david@abc.com has a mailbox and a message open; they are blue tint. Then, david@123.net has a mailbox & 2 messages; they are tinted orange.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Penelope didn't see any activity in the vcs for the last 8 years, closing.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 6 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
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