478428 - Please QA /en-US/firefox/all-1.html

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(www.mozilla.org :: General, defect)

Description

[Laura Mesa [:lmesa] [:lvmesa]]

Please QA /en-US/firefox/all-1.html which can be found at 

https://www-trunk.stage.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-1.html Thanks!

Comment 1

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Attachment: Screenshot of major IE 6 layout issue

Comment 2

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

(In reply to comment #1)
> Created an attachment (id=362325) [details]
> Screenshot of major IE 6 layout issue

Happens with IE 7 too.

Comment 3

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Hi again Marco - would love to have your feedback on this page's accessibility too, thanks!

Comment 4

[Marco Zehe (:MarcoZ)]

One big issue: All the native language names such as "íslenska" get the default @lang attribute assigned. They should, for best screen reader interaction, get an @lang attribute that specifies the language in use. Otherwise, screen readers will pronounce the words in English, which sounds rather terrible for native speakers in most cases. Worse, for some Unicode characters like cyrillic etc, they won't speak it at all in English, but would if that was marked up correctly, since users speaking those languages usually have a synthesizer that is capable of speaking that particular language.

Comment 5

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

Attachment: add lang property to language headings

(In reply to comment #1)
> Created an attachment (id=362325) [details]
> Screenshot of major IE 6 layout issue

I've got the giant layout issue fixed, but it has been replaced with a smaller layout issue in IE6/7 (some of the locales are weirdly floated). Still working on that.

Re: comment #4. I've added the lang property to the h3 tags. Does that do the trick? Patch attached for Wil.

Comment 6

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

Comment on attachment 362585 [details] [diff] [review]
add lang property to language headings

r22316

Comment 7

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

Attachment: Patch to fix float clearing in IE

Another patch (sorry Wil) to add a hacky workaround for IE float clearing layout issues.

Comment 8

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

Comment on attachment 362819 [details] [diff] [review]
Patch to fix float clearing in IE

r22334

Comment 9

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

Thanks Wil. Stephen, the layout should be working in IE now.

Comment 10

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Attachment: Screenshot of IE 6 with missing Windows icons

Comment 11

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

(In reply to comment #10)
> Created an attachment (id=363028) [details]
> Screenshot of IE 6 with missing Windows icons

Fixed in trunk in r22415.

Comment 12

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Marco, are there remaining accessibility issues?

Comment 13

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Attachment: Screenshot of "Other Systems and Languages" white text

Steven, can we move the nav up a bit so that the "Other Systems and Languages" text has a little more contract?

Comment 14

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

(In reply to comment #13)
> Steven, can we move the nav up a bit so that the "Other Systems and Languages"
> text has a little more contract?

I've moved the background image down a bit so there's a bit more contrast behind the bottom of the menu (r22578).

Comment 15

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

This is scheduled to go out today.  Are there any remaining issues?

Comment 16

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

The URLS are now http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.0.7&os=linux&lang=zh-TW, which are broken, but I think that's just a product-details thang.

Comment 17

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

(In reply to comment #16)
> The URLS are now
> http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.0.7&os=linux&lang=zh-TW, which
> are broken, but I think that's just a product-details thang.

Yeah, the 3.0.7 product-details landed earlier today but won't be pushed with this.

Comment 18

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

As far as I'm concerned, this has been tested and can go live.

Resolving as FIXED.

Comment 19

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Galician seems to be in the wrong section, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Spain). It should be in the hispania region.

I would have probably taken a map where the region if Island doesn't correspond to it's national debt.

The Indic languages in Asia confuse me.

Is it documented somewhere why which languages show up where?

Comment 20

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Some languages' names are capitalized, others are not. I know that at least for Polish the spelling rule is that "polski" being an adjective should be written with lower "p". However, in this context, I think that it should be capitalized, because it's an independent element of the UI.

Besides, this is used inconsistently, e.g. French is capitalized, and it has the same rule regarding adjectives as Polish.

Comment 21

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

(In reply to comment #20)
> Some languages' names are capitalized, others are not. I know that at least for
> Polish the spelling rule is that "polski" being an adjective should be written
> with lower "p". However, in this context, I think that it should be
> capitalized, because it's an independent element of the UI.
> 
> Besides, this is used inconsistently, e.g. French is capitalized, and it has
> the same rule regarding adjectives as Polish.

These mirror what's been in production for quite a while now, so are independent of the new changes, but really do appreciate the feedback.

Is this the first time anyone from the localization community/team has seen all-1.html, all-2.html, and all-3.html?  If so, that's a shame, and next time we should get more eyeballs on this earlier.

Comment 22

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

(In reply to comment #21)

> These mirror what's been in production for quite a while now, so are
> independent of the new changes, but really do appreciate the feedback.

I know, but on the current all.html the text says: "Polish <tab> polski", which actually doesn't look that bad. The two words are close enough to each other to make the case for the latter being written with lower "p". I guess this could be argued for other languages as well. However, on all-1.html "polski" is a major visual element: it's listed before English equivalent "Polish" and looks like a header. In this case it should be capitalized.

> Is this the first time anyone from the localization community/team has seen
> all-1.html, all-2.html, and all-3.html?  If so, that's a shame, and next time
> we should get more eyeballs on this earlier.

Not sure, but since the trunk is LDAP-protected, I would guess so.

Comment 23

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

(In reply to comment #19)

> 
> Is it documented somewhere why which languages show up where?

As an extra comment, I see diferent map divisions, for instance in Europe, are made from roughly joining different countries along their borders. Is there any plan to be used in conjunction with any kind of GeoIP method?

Comment 24

[Wil Clouser [:clouserw]]

> Is it documented somewhere why which languages show up where?
There is a document on grouphub with most of the mappings and the rest were determined in comments.  I got the information from Delphine Lebédel and Laura Mesa.

> > Is this the first time anyone from the localization community/team has seen
> > all-1.html, all-2.html, and all-3.html?  If so, that's a shame, and next time
> > we should get more eyeballs on this earlier.
> 
> Not sure, but since the trunk is LDAP-protected, I would guess so.
It isn't.

> As an extra comment, I see diferent map divisions, for instance in Europe, are
> made from roughly joining different countries along their borders. Is there any
> plan to be used in conjunction with any kind of GeoIP method?
Not right now.

Comment 25

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

(In reply to comment #24)
> > Is it documented somewhere why which languages show up where?
> There is a document on grouphub with most of the mappings and the rest were
> determined in comments.  I got the information from Delphine Lebédel and Laura
> Mesa.
> 

I think you could also include in the European region where France is the following languages: Basque, Catalan and Occitan.

Comment 26

[Seth Bindernagel]

(In reply to comment #21)
> Is this the first time anyone from the localization community/team has seen
> all-1.html, all-2.html, and all-3.html?  If so, that's a shame, and next time
> we should get more eyeballs on this earlier.

Not the first time.  I saw very early mockups and saw them again late last
week.  But, along the way, seems like we needed more visibility as we neared production.

Comment 27

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

(In reply to comment #25)
> (In reply to comment #24)
> > > Is it documented somewhere why which languages show up where?
> > There is a document on grouphub with most of the mappings and the rest were
> > determined in comments.  I got the information from Delphine Lebédel and Laura
> > Mesa.
> > 
> 
> I think you could also include in the European region where France is the
> following languages: Basque, Catalan and Occitan.

If possible, I would also add German in Eastern Europe region, for instance, German speakers in Romania.

Comment 28

[krupa raj[:krupa]]

Attachment: map incorrectly highlighted for south central asia

In https://www-trunk.stage.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-1.html?c=asia page,the second category lists downloads for local languages of South Central Asia. 

Countries in South Central Asia are:
Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan.

Many of these countries are not highlighted in the map.

8 of the 12 listed languages are Indian and India is not highlighted.That is pretty noticeable.

Comment 29

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

Reopening per comment 28; sorry we missed this before.

IMHO, we shouldn't push today with that; thanks for finding that, Krupa.

Comment 30

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

Attachment: Updated south-central Asia map

Krupa, is this attached map accurate? Thanks.

Comment 31

[Steven Garrity [:sgarrity]]

Attachment: Updated south-central Asia map

Comment 32

[krupa raj[:krupa]]

Steven:This is much better.I think we are still leaving Maldives out which is a bunch of islands in the Indian ocean.

I am no Geography expert but it looks like we are adding Iran in Central Asia in the new screenshot.

Here is a link to the map maintained by US gov.

http://www.state.gov/p/sca/ci/

Comment 33

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc]

https://www-trunk.stage.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-1.html?c=north-america

Norwegian locales are listed for North America, I think this is wrong. Also, IMO it is a bit strange to separate Mexico as if it were not in North America and list again all the locales next to it.

Comment 34

[Marek Stępień [:marcoos, inactive]]

Whoa, this is surely gonna cause some political problems.

I can easily imagine people getting angry because of the way you group the languages (e.g.: what does Turkish and Polish have in common? Why is Slovenian in the Western group, while Czech is in the Eastearn one, even though the Czech Republic is geographically more to the West than Slovenia? etc.)

Also, I can't help the fact that this map
https://www-trunk.stage.mozilla.com/img/tignish/firefox/all-1/region-eastern-europe.png
somehow reminds me of the one on the left here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg/750px-Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg.png 

And if I see it this way, try to imagine what the right wing people would feel like...

Also, having a separate section for Central America without a single Central American localization might seem offensive to some people from that region - most of these are locales coming from their former colonial overlords...

Comment 35

[Seth Bindernagel]

I spoke with dbottoms and we are going to hold on pushing this live due to all the constructive feedback that surfaced in this bug.  Thanks everyone.  We will get back to everyone with a next step.  Feel free to ping me if you have questions.

Comment 36

[Seth Bindernagel]

Added dbottoms to the bug.

Comment 37

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

If you do not mind, I will be a bit polemical :)
I understand we are adding English, as Esperanto, as lingua franca in all World regions.
However, I do not know if both English varieties should be added everywhere. 
For instance, in Europe, as far as I know, British variety is the one used by European Union institutions, and by Mozilla Europe site as well.
Conversely, but logically, we are not adding American varieties of Spanish and Portuguese in Europe.

Comment 38

[Seth Bindernagel]

Please continue to add your comments here.  We will respond to all issues once the team who created the project has a chance to reconnect.  People have been traveling and will return soon.  At that point, we'll be able to gather answers and respond.  Thanks to all for comments so far.

-sethb

Comment 39

[Laura Mesa [:lmesa] [:lvmesa]]

Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. It would also be very helpful for everyone to look at the other two designs for the all.html page:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475760
 and 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=477278

Please comment by Monday March 9 at 5pm.  I will compile all comments and we will analyze and determine which changes to make in order to implement the tests. 

You can find more information here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/All.html#All.html_Redesign

Comment 40

[Tomer Cohen :tomer]

* Too much mouse clicks in order to get the download begin.
* It is not trivial to locate the operating system switch button. People may download files for the wrong OS in case the script in unable to guess their OS correctly. 
* Geographic knowledge is required in order to download. It may sound strange, but not everyone know on which continent he is, including young childs.

Comment 41

[Jesper Kristensen]

I thought the search box in the top was a select/drop down box, so I started by clicking the arrow with no good result.

I think the page looks much more complex than the old one. It is still very long requiring lots of scrolling, and instead of looking in an alphabetically ordered list of language names, I now first have to look at some maps in some random order, and then I have to look at a list of language names.

It is not obvious to me that each individual map highlights a section of the European map. It took me 10 or 20 seconds to figure out, even through I have seen a mockup of this page some time long ago.

The native name of the language is the most prominent, yet they are sorted by their English name, and it is not obvious if they are sorted rows first or columns first.

I think it is great that there are only download buttons for one platform at a time and that the user's platform is detected. (As long as it is still possible to change the platform)

An earlier comment discussed if both British and US English should be in all categories. If only one should stay, I think it should be US English, as many people where I live prefer to use software in it's "original language", which for Firefox is US English.

Comment 42

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc]

My feedback:
* "Other Versions: Firefox 2.0.0.20"
-> I would call it "older version" and singular

* Indian languages are not associated to India but to the Kazhakstan area
* Some maps don't look totally geographically correct, India is too small for example, France and Italy look a bit merged, it looks like the Caspian and Black sea were merged too, Saudi Arabia is too thin...
* Norwegian shouldn't be listed in North America
* listing Danish in North America (for Greenland I guess) and Spanish in Africa (for the cities of Ceuta and Melilla?) is a bit stretched in my opinion
* it is strange to me that Mexico isn't included in North America but Greenland is.

I also agree with most of what said above, I think it looks nice but it is less usable than the current solution because it takes more clicks to get to your language

Comment 43

[Stephen Donner [:stephend] Not actively reading bugmail]

All blocking issues have been resolved and verified; we're ready to go live with this all-1, all-2, all-3 test.

We'll verify this bug when all pages have been pushed live.

Comment 44

[raymond [:retornam] (inactive)]

verified