494135 - Corrections to the Beta download web page in Serbian

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: sr / Serbian, defect)

Description

[Filip Miletic]

. "Firefox", should be "фајерфокс", "Firefox-a" should be "фајерфокса". We are allowed to transcribe the names of Mozilla products, and we should do it.  Check out item 8 at http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/l10n-policy.html

2. "бета верзија" should be "бета издање", much more natural in Serbian.

3. "Beta верзија" should be "бета издање", for consistency with 2.

4. "на Енглеском" should be "на енглеском", Serbian uses all lowercase for the language names

5. "Битне Информације" should be at least "Битне информације", as Serbian does not use "English Style Title Case".  Possibly, more natural and shorter "важни подаци".

6. "информације о овој верѕији" should at least be "информације о овој верзији" to correct a typo; possibly more natural "белешке о издању", which is also used as the translation for "Release Notes" in the Serbian l10n for Firefox.

7. "преузимање" may possibly be better translated as "пријем", as it is shorter, means practically the same, and is used in the Firefox l10n.

Comment 1

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

(In reply to comment #0)
> . "Firefox", should be "фајерфокс", "Firefox-a" should be "фајерфокса". We are
> allowed to transcribe the names of Mozilla products, and we should do it. 
> Check out item 8 at
> http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/l10n-policy.html
> 
> 2. "бета верзија" should be "бета издање", much more natural in Serbian.
> 
> 3. "Beta верзија" should be "бета издање", for consistency with 2.
> 
> 4. "на Енглеском" should be "на енглеском", Serbian uses all lowercase for the
> language names
> 
> 5. "Битне Информације" should be at least "Битне информације", as Serbian does
> not use "English Style Title Case".  Possibly, more natural and shorter "важни
> подаци".
> 
> 6. "информације о овој верѕији" should at least be "информације о овој верзији"
> to correct a typo; possibly more natural "белешке о издању", which is also used
> as the translation for "Release Notes" in the Serbian l10n for Firefox.
> 
> 7. "преузимање" may possibly be better translated as "пријем", as it is
> shorter, means practically the same, and is used in the Firefox l10n.

All except first one should be(and possibly will be) accepted. As per first, I think Serbs won`t like transliteration.

Comment 2

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

Forgot to add: I thought i did commit a patch for that one.

Comment 3

[Filip Miletic]

(In reply to comment #1)
> All except first one should be(and possibly will be) accepted.

Can you elaborate as to which parts won't be accepted, and argue why.
Apart from a few suggestions on style that I made (for which I have no
other proof to offer but my time spent on honing the phrases just
right), the things which don't uphold the language rules should be
corrected.

> As per first, I think Serbs won`t like transliteration.

My take on that is that whether Serbs will like or dislike something
is speculation.  Being a speculation, it is not a sound basis for
making this kind of decision.

If we want to be more exact, we'd have to resort to language rules.
The Serbian manual of Style (determining the standard Serbian language
rules, original name: Правопис српскога језика (Pravopis srpskoga
jezika, Serbian Lanuage Ortography; by M. Pesikan, J. Jerkovic,
M. Pizurica, ISBN 86-17-13105-5) says (my translation, and [comments]):

"[Rule] 97.  Foreign proper names are written in the Serbian language
in two ways: the adjusted writing (applicable in both Cyrillic and
Latin, e.g. Минхен, Шекспир - Minhen, Šekspir [for: Munchen,
Shakespeare]), and the original writing (applicable in Latin,
e.g. Munchen, Shakespeare). [...]"

That is, the manual of style for the standard Serbian language clearly
states that the foreign proper names, Firefox included, should be
transcribed in Cyrillic.  This is what should happen with the name
"Firefox", too.

It shouldn't matter whether people who choose to ignore the manual of
style for their own purpose like the transcription or not; a part of
Mozilla's image as a company that transcends national boundaries is
determined by the extent it respects the customs in the languages
spoken in their target markets.

I find that, in order to uphold its professional image, Mozilla should
assume a professional and respecftul attitude to the standard Serbian
language too.

For this reason, if I was the responsible for the website's QA, I
would not accept leaving Firefox without transcription to фајерфокс.  

Now, we may find some middle ground here by annnotating the first appearance of the product's name with: фајерфокс (Firefox), so that it is very clear what the original product name is.

Comment 4

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

(In reply to comment #3)
> (In reply to comment #1)
> > All except first one should be(and possibly will be) accepted.
> 
> Can you elaborate as to which parts won't be accepted, and argue why.
> Apart from a few suggestions on style that I made (for which I have no
> other proof to offer but my time spent on honing the phrases just
> right), the things which don't uphold the language rules should be
> corrected.

I have changed everything you suggested, so now we shall just wait for pascalc to confirm that. Am I the one who should say what should be changed? I thought you`re in charge for Firefox webpages. If I am, than all of your suggestions(except transliteration) ARE accepted AFAIC.

> > As per first, I think Serbs won`t like transliteration.
> 
> My take on that is that whether Serbs will like or dislike something
> is speculation.  Being a speculation, it is not a sound basis for
> making this kind of decision.
> 
> If we want to be more exact, we'd have to resort to language rules.
> The Serbian manual of Style (determining the standard Serbian language
> rules, original name: Правопис српскога језика (Pravopis srpskoga
> jezika, Serbian Lanuage Ortography; by M. Pesikan, J. Jerkovic,
> M. Pizurica, ISBN 86-17-13105-5) says (my translation, and [comments]):
> 
> "[Rule] 97.  Foreign proper names are written in the Serbian language
> in two ways: the adjusted writing (applicable in both Cyrillic and
> Latin, e.g. Минхен, Шекспир - Minhen, Šekspir [for: Munchen,
> Shakespeare]), and the original writing (applicable in Latin,
> e.g. Munchen, Shakespeare). [...]"
> 
> That is, the manual of style for the standard Serbian language clearly
> states that the foreign proper names, Firefox included, should be
> transcribed in Cyrillic.  This is what should happen with the name
> "Firefox", too.
> 
> It shouldn't matter whether people who choose to ignore the manual of
> style for their own purpose like the transcription or not; a part of
> Mozilla's image as a company that transcends national boundaries is
> determined by the extent it respects the customs in the languages
> spoken in their target markets.
> 
> I find that, in order to uphold its professional image, Mozilla should
> assume a professional and respecftul attitude to the standard Serbian
> language too.
> 
> For this reason, if I was the responsible for the website's QA, I
> would not accept leaving Firefox without transcription to фајерфокс.  
> 
> Now, we may find some middle ground here by annnotating the first appearance of
> the product's name with: фајерфокс (Firefox), so that it is very clear what the
> original product name is.

Ok, you convinced me. Just one thing, shouldn`t Firefox be transliterated as фајрфокс?

Comment 5

[Filip Miletic]

(In reply to comment #4)
> I have changed everything you suggested, so now we shall just wait for pascalc
> to confirm that. Am I the one who should say what should be changed? I thought
> you`re in charge for Firefox webpages. If I am, than all of your

I translate the client programs, and don't know of the website l10n
workflow.  I only by chance translated a few product pages that were
blocking client program releases.

I suggest that you be the go-to person for website l10n matters, as
that is your focus.  I am ready to contribute any advice you need,
and which I am able to provide.

> Ok, you convinced me. Just one thing, shouldn`t Firefox be transliterated as
> фајрфокс?

There are extensive transcription rules for foreign language transliterations.  For
general guidelines, you can take a look at:
http://www.vokabular.org/pravopis/doku.php?id=%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%92%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%9A%D0%B5#%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B5
for general guidelines.

For specific guidelines for English, you can start from the IPA
representation of the word 'fire':
http://www30.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ipa+fire and apply the
transliteration rules given at:
http://www.vokabular.org/pravopis/doku.php?id=%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%92%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%9A%D0%B5#%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0_%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B8%D0%B7_%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3_%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0
to arrive exactly at: fire → фајер

Example: (Spit)fire → (спит)фајер (the airplane model)

Note also that there is an ongoing debate whether product names should
be written with a starting capital letter (like e.g. фијат пунто),
i.e. whether Firefox should be фајерфокс, or Фајерфокс.  I went
with the first solution (following some majority authoritative
opinions, the links to which escape my memory at the moment), and
would advise you to do the same for uniformity; this will be easy to
change should it prove necessary.

Comment 6

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

It`s ok. I`ll transliterate it to фајерфoкс(small caps). Should i mark this RESOLVED, or there`s more to talk about?

Comment 7

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

Done. Rev. 26149