529496 - Missing archive and junk icons in mail panel

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Thunderbird :: Message Reader UI, enhancement)

Description

[jmordax]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091102 (CK-IBM) Firefox/3.5.5
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091112 Thunderbird/3.0

In the mail panel (from the three panel window) where you read each mail you select from top list there are several buttons for different actions like reply, forward, etc...

Archive and Junk buttons don't have the images and I suspect this is a bug. It is estrange that all buttons have icons and these two not.

Reproducible: Always

Comment 1

[jmordax]

Attachment: Showing missing icons.

Comment 2

[Mark Banner (:standard8)]

There are no missing icons - it was designed this way. Bryan can give you the explanation or point you at where it is.

Comment 3

[jmordax]

Then, let me reopen it as an enhancement, because as an end user it offers a great lack of polish... it seems the product still under work.
I don't see the point to have some buttons out of the overall design of the tool. If you have any url pointing to the specific reason I would appreciate to read it. Thanks.

Comment 4

[Brett Caneau]

I agree with jmordax. It doesn't look finished or even logical! I thought it's a bug too. Mark Banner says that it was designed this way. I'd like to know why it is like that so. 
If you select "just icons", then you can see these icons so text and icons should show the text and icons!

Comment 5

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

The short and quick of it is actually in the code: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/themes/qute/mail/messageHeader.css#293

However I can't seem to find the longer explanation which is in one of these bugs but it takes forever to find the right bug.

Essentially (like every design decision) we made a trade off in space vs. usability.  The Archive and Junk buttons don't have strong icon representations; a short survey will show that most people won't easily describe the same object when talking about either topics.  So we gain over 32px of horizontal space by no using icons for actions that don't have strong icon relationships.

The compact header extension, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/13564 , I believe allows for much more fine grained choices of icon and button customizations.

I'm not sure what you'd like to do with this bug.  We would need a viable option that keeps the space we've gained by losing those icons in order to make this requested change happen.  I'd recommend wontfix unless we can come up with some new solutions.

Comment 6

[jmordax]

Well, if the extra pixels that those two small icons (I think the reasonable thing is to use the same ones than in the tool bar but smaller) could expand can be a technical problem for the rest of the header... it's ok, I understand it could be a more difficult issue than just add two icons. But from my point of view the look and feel of the tool has a hole there.

Comment 7

[jmordax]

Just to comment some other thought that come to my mind, why not remove those two buttons and add them to the "Other actions" button-combo?

Comment 8

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

(In reply to comment #7)
> Just to comment some other thought that come to my mind, why not remove those
> two buttons and add them to the "Other actions" button-combo?

That's possible (and would save a lot of space) but I feel that the archive and junk actions are commonly used enough that we would want them in the toolbar for quick access.  By the way, future versions will have a customizable toolbar palette for adding and removing buttons in a similar way to the toolbar.

Comment 10

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Anyone who still wants to have the missing archive and junk icons back on the message header toolbar buttons (for icons+text mode), should vote for this bug using the (vote) feature.

(In reply to comment #5)
> The short and quick of it is actually in the code:
> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/themes/qute/mail/messageHeader.css#293
> However I can't seem to find the longer explanation

bug 465138, comment 55 (by Bryan, but it's not very long...)
bug 465138, comment 53 (by Dan, first short explanation at the end)

> Essentially (like every design decision) we made a trade off in space vs.
> usability.  The Archive and Junk buttons don't have strong icon
> representations; a short survey will show that most people won't easily
> describe the same object when talking about either topics.  So we gain over
> 32px of horizontal space by no using icons for actions that don't have strong
> icon relationships.

Detailed analysis why this design decision should be reconsidered:

-> duplicate bug 521303

Furthermore, this RFE should be reconsidered/reopened after bug 519956 is implemented: when users can customize which/how many buttons to have on the header toolbar, the space problem which was cited as the main reason for wontfix will become even less relevant.

More arguments and recent discussion can be found in bug 519956 (starting from bug 519956, comment 109), especially here:

-> bug 519956, comment 115

Comment 11

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

reopening and marking dependence on bug 519956

Comment 12

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

(In reply to comment #5)
> Essentially (like every design decision) we made a trade off in space vs.
> usability. 
<...>
> I'm not sure what you'd like to do with this bug.  We would need a viable
> option that keeps the space we've gained by losing those icons in order to make
> this requested change happen.  I'd recommend wontfix unless we can come up with
> some new solutions.

I don't think 64px is such a big win indeed. Here are possible solutions that come to my mind:
1) small screen users can switch to Icons only or Text only modes.
2) After bug 519956 has been implemented, they can also remove the buttons they don't need, regaining the space.
3) Toolkit suggestion: a toolbar mode like in GTK could be introduced, where labels are only shown on some buttons, not all.
4) Perhaps Thunderbird could have an official skin (or a few) for netbooks?

Comment 13

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to comment #12)
> I don't think 64px is such a big win indeed.

FTR, we're talking about a space difference of only *32*+4px (2 icons, 16px each, plus 2px between icons and button text).

Comment 14

[Joachim Herb]

Attachment: Turn on icons for Archive/Junk buttons always.

Even so this bug depends on bug 519956 (and not the other way around) this is a patch to always show the icons independently of the progress of that bug.

Otherwise I could change the patch for bug 519956 to turn the icons on there. 

Which way to go?

Comment 15

[rsx11m]

Since you removed the special handling of those two buttons in the patch up
for review in bug 519956 attachment 417317 [details] [diff] [review] already, it may be easier
to wait on the decision there on the combined patch. Either way, you'll have
to request ui-review first before or parallel to the technical review. If this patch goes through first, you'd have to modify your patch in bug 519956, or otherwise this bug here becomes fixed with your patch there if it's approved
as is with all icons shown.

Comment 16

[David :Bienvenu]

doesn't sound like a blocker, but I've marked it wanted.

Comment 17

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

David, does "status-thunderbird 3.1: wanted" include ui-review+?

Comment 18

[David :Bienvenu]

No, that would be up to Bryan

Comment 19

[Dan Mosedale (:dmosedale, :dmose)]

Comment on attachment 421306 [details] [diff] [review]
Turn on icons for Archive/Junk buttons always.

ui-review is the first step here.  If this bug gets it, feel free to re-request review.

Comment 21

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

(In reply to comment #13)
> (In reply to comment #12)
> > I don't think 64px is such a big win indeed.
> 
> FTR, we're talking about a space difference of only *32*+4px (2 icons, 16px
> each, plus 2px between icons and button text).

On small screen sizes 64px can be a lot.  I would rather we take the approach of using bug 519956 to remove these icons so we don't just take up extra space without giving people a way to easily take it back.

Comment 22

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

And by easily take it back I meant through removing buttons they don't use as we already offer the mode changes

Comment 23

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Note: according to the comment you just cited, it's not even 64, but just 36 pixels. ;)

Comment 24

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

Yes, we're talking about only 36px *sigh*

(In reply to comment #21)
> I would rather we take the approach
> of using bug 519956 to remove these icons so we don't just take up extra space
> without giving people a way to easily take it back.

I think what Bryan means here is "please use bug 519956 (not this one) to *add* these icons" so that people can remove individual buttons to (re-)gain horizontal space. So the good news is: eventually the icons will return to their rightful places.
Bryan, please correct me if I'm wrong.

> And by easily take it back I meant through removing buttons they don't use as
> we already offer the mode changes

I understand from this Bryan thinks "icon only mode" / "text only mode" isn't sufficient for people with small screens to "recover" the "extra" space that would be used by a normal UI where all buttons have icons, including archive and junk. I'm failing to understand, but fair enough. Let's wait for bug 519956 then, and hope that it still gets into 3.1...

Comment 25

[Joachim Herb]

In bug 519956 comment #142 I have posted links to try server builds which include a patch to customize the header pane toolbar. Please test and comment on it in bug 519956. The archive and the junk buttons (should) have icons with this patch.

Also with the CustomizeHeaderToolbar add-on (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/thunderbird/addon/45601) all buttons have icons.

Here are the links to the try server builds (again):

http://s3.mozillamessaging.com/build/try-server/2010-02-15_11:[e-mail]-bug519956-att426817/[e-mail]2

http://s3.mozillamessaging.com/build/try-server/2010-02-15_11:[e-mail]-bug519956-att426817/[e-mail]

http://s3.mozillamessaging.com/build/try-server/2010-02-15_11:[e-mail]-bug519956-att426817/[e-mail]

http://s3.mozillamessaging.com/build/try-server/2010-02-15_11:[e-mail]-bug519956-att426817/[e-mail]

Comment 26

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

(In reply to comment #25)
> In bug 519956 comment #142 I have posted links to try server builds which
> include a patch to customize the header pane toolbar. Please test and comment
> on it in bug 519956. The archive and the junk buttons (should) have icons with
> this patch.

Thanks, I had been trying these since the morning.  I left feedback in bug 519956

(In reply to comment #24)
> Yes, we're talking about only 36px *sigh*

Right, 36px... we've got plenty of those so use up as many as you can! :-P

> I think what Bryan means here is "please use bug 519956 (not this one) to *add*
> these icons" so that people can remove individual buttons to (re-)gain
> horizontal space. So the good news is: eventually the icons will return to
> their rightful places.
> Bryan, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for all the translations Thomas, saving the day where I'm not. :)
 
> > And by easily take it back I meant through removing buttons they don't use as
> > we already offer the mode changes
> 
> I understand from this Bryan thinks "icon only mode" / "text only mode" isn't
> sufficient for people with small screens to "recover" the "extra" space that
> would be used by a normal UI where all buttons have icons, including archive
> and junk. I'm failing to understand, but fair enough. Let's wait for bug 519956
> then, and hope that it still gets into 3.1...

Sorry, I meant that the switch to icon mode is a very large change.  Users go from large click targets to very small ones.  Text mode has almost reasonable sized click targets except that we should probably provide better padding so the text isn't right at the edges.  With text+icons mode where you get the better visual layout and reasonable click targets but we use a lot of horizontal space.  So to get the most reasonable sized buttons in a smaller layout a user has to sacrifice a button or two.

I was trying to save as much as possible for people with smaller screens but I'm tired for fighting for them anymore.  It's good you guys have taken over this header layout, it's making a lot more progress now.

Comment 27

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

Comment on attachment 421306 [details] [diff] [review]
Turn on icons for Archive/Junk buttons always.

This is going to be handled in bug 519956

The original intent here was to save space for the user when there was no customization available for them to save space on their own.  With the customization almost ready people will be able to remove buttons they don't need and save space that way.  Users already have a way to change button modes but this is a whole button solution instead of a partial that allows icons but removes the junk button for space.  So we'll have fully satisfied the design constraint with bug 519956 landing.

Comment 28

[Rimas Kudelis [use needinfo to ping]]

Bryan: now that bug 519956 is fixed, does that mean this bug is fixed too?

Comment 29

[Bryan Clark (DevTools PM) [:clarkbw]]

(In reply to comment #28)
> Bryan: now that bug 519956 is fixed, does that mean this bug is fixed too?

yep, i suppose that makes this fixed...