535978 - localised/localized keyboard shortcuts are non-standard, wildly inconsistent, do not work on Mac OS X and change (?!) (Welsh localisation/localization)

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: cy / Welsh, defect)

Description

[reescf]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; cy; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; cy; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6

Keyboard shortcuts are either ignored or result in error sound unless they happen to coincide with the shortcuts used for the English version of Firefox. Some keyboard shortcuts which are not meant to be enabled in the localized version work anyway if they correspond to standard OS choices. Some don't. There's no consistency. Moreover, even if the shortcuts worked as advertised, they would be non-standard relative to the rest of the OS interface. There are also far fewer keyboard shortcuts than for the English version.

I am using the Welsh localization on Mac OS 10.4.11 (PPC). OS X is set in System Preferences to use Welsh where possible but this setting does not affect keyboard shortcuts. For example, command + Q is still the command to quit an application even though there is no Q in Welsh.

Examples:
1. keyboard shortcut which works as advertised and is consistent with OS: new tab (command + T)
2. keyboard shortcut which fails to work at all: quit (command + G)
3. keyboard shortcut which would be inconsistent with rest of OS if it did work: quit (command + G)
4. keyboard shortcut which fails to work as advertised, would be inconsistent with OS if it did work as advertised and which works consistently with rest of OS even though it isn't supposed to according to the localization: command + C. In Firefox, this is supposed to hide the application. If used without highlighting text first, an error beep results. If text is highlighted it copies it. This is consistent with standard OS behaviour but not with the shortcuts advertised by the localization. (Note that I'm personally glad it does this as I would certainly keep inadvertently hiding Firefox otherwise. Copying text is something I do much more frequently than hiding the application in any case, so it is much more important to me to have a shortcut for copying than hiding.)
5. missing keyboard shortcut: save page as (no advertised shortcut, standard OS shortcut results only in error beep)
6. standard OS keyboard shortcut which should not work according to localization: command + O for opening a file (no advertised shortcut, standard OS shortcut behaves consistently with rest of OS)
7. keyboard shortcut which works as advertised, is consistent with OS but which seems inconsistent with localization: command + V for pasting text (I'm glad this works as it does but it makes no sense in terms of the other localization choices for Welsh - Welsh doesn't have a letter V)

Note that these are only examples - these issues affect all keyboard shortcuts in this version of Firefox. The only way to figure out what works, what doesn't and what a particular shortcut actually does is by trial and error. It is impossible to predict on the basis of either the standard OS behaviour or the shortcuts advertised in Firefox's menus.

My personal preference would be to leave all keyboard shortcuts as they are in the English version. This would mean using command + Q to quit, for example, even though there is no Q in Welsh. This would mean the same shortcuts would work in the same ways in Firefox as in other applications. Again, note that my OS preferences default to Welsh - as far as OS X is concerned (at least in 10.4), command + Q is the shortcut to quit any application whether the user has chosen Welsh or English as her interface language. Firefox menus would reflect the standard shortcuts. For those of us who use keyboard shortcuts a lot, this is surely the option which makes the most sense. I don't want command + C to hide Firefox but to copy text in other applications. (Especially since copy = copïo.)

Failing this, the advertised keyboard shortcuts should actually work as advertised in the menus and short make sense in terms of the menu commands in the localized version. Again, this isn't my favoured option as it would be completely inconsistent with the rest of the OS, but if command + C is meant to hide Firefox and there is meant to be no shortcut for copying text, command + C should hide Firefox rather than copying text. In this case, though, there should at least be a clear rationale behind the choices of shortcuts in terms of the localization language. command + V shouldn't paste text. Either command + G should paste text (paste = gludo) or there should be no keyboard shortcut for this.

The current situation is pretty much as confusing and inconsistent as it could possibly be. I'd be interested to know how the current shortcuts were decided. I thought that perhaps keyboard shortcuts which appear arbitrary in English had been left as they are (command + V for paste, + Z for undo, + X for cut) even though this makes the Welsh interface seem particularly weird (there's a shortcut for pasting but not copying, command + Q doesn't work in Firefox but command + Z does etc.) but this theory doesn't work since command + R is chosen to reload a page (+R for ail-lwytho in Welsh but reload in English) and I don't have an alternative theory right now.

The above reflects my standard experience. In the last five seconds, a range of *new* shortcuts have appeared in Firefox's menus. These include command + C for both copy and hide; command + O for open and command + D for save file as.

Just looked at the menus again and command + O has disappeared although command + D, for example, remains. command + O still works, though. At least, ccording to the menus command + O should show me the source for the page but it actually offers me an open file dialog box as it would in other applications.

Weird...

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Choose Welsh as default interface language in System Preferences on Mac OS X (maybe on 10.4.11 PPC - not sure what is required)
2. Install the Welsh version of Firefox.
3. Observe advertised keyboard shortcuts. Play with shortcuts. Observe.
Actual Results:  
See details above.

Expected Results:  
See details above.

Comment 1

[Dwayne Bailey]

Pushed various command key fixes in commit: d5aa63cea37b

Comment 3

[reescf]

Please see final comment in bug 762762. I've reopened that one as I think it is misleading to mark it as a duplicate of this one. However, if it would be better to make changes to this bug and remark that one as a duplicate, that's fine.

Briefly: this bug is marked as affecting a platform no longer supported by Firefox (OS X PPC); that bug affects a currently supported platform (Linux 64 bit); this bug was a general complaint about the setup in the Welsh localisation; that bug specifically concerns a regression introduced in version 13.0.

Comment 4

[Gordon P. Hemsley [:GPHemsley]]

(In reply to margali from comment #3)
> Briefly: this bug is marked as affecting a platform no longer supported by
> Firefox (OS X PPC); that bug affects a currently supported platform (Linux
> 64 bit);

Keyboard shortcuts are differentiated only by OS, not by platform. Having this as PPC-only was merely a mislabeling. I've changed it to reflect Mac OS X on all platforms.

With that being said, however, it is not clear if the problems mentioned in comment 0 are still present, partially given the changes referenced in comment 1. In light of bug 762762, however, I imagine it might be difficult to assess whether things have improved.

> this bug was a general complaint about the setup in the Welsh
> localisation; that bug specifically concerns a regression introduced in
> version 13.0.

That seems enough to keep the separate for now.

Comment 5

[reescf]

Just to clarify: PPC aside, I reported this bug for Mac OS X.

I reported bug 762762 for Linux.

I cannot say whether or not things are better for OS X as I do not have an intel Mac and therefore cannot run any recent version of Firefox under OS X. So I'm not going to be able to report anything helpful myself about the current situation on OS X in any case.

Comment 6

[Dwayne Bailey]

Since there are no more PPC release I'm not sure how best to address these.  I/we are merely assisting the Welsh team push their translations to Mozilla.  We focus on the Aurora (early beta) channel.  We most likely won't look at PPC unless the Welsh team prioritises it.  So fixing this is up to the team to decide.

So I'll leave it open for now.

Comment 7

[Francesco Lodolo [:flod]]

Assuming this was fixed at some point. If not, please comment or open a new bug.