577732 - Make the mozilla.dev.tech.crypto newsgroup be moderated, as the list is

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(mozilla.org :: Discussion Forums, task)

Description

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

For years, the mailing list dev-tech-crypto@lists mozilla.org has been 
moderated, and I have been its moderator.  This has stopped ALL SPAM from 
that originally arrives by email, from reaching either the mailing list or 
the newsgroup.  But it has done NOTHING about spam that originates in the mozilla.dev.tech.crypto newsgroup and comes into the mailing list through 
the news-to-mail gateway.  

When I inquired about this some years ago, I was told that nothing could be
done about the spam in the newsgroup, or spam that comes into the mailing 
list from the newsgroup.  

Now, If I'm not mistaken, a way to do more has been found, and is now 
deployed in the newer mozilla.dev.security.policy newsgroup and its 
companion mailing list.  As I understand it (and I may be wrong), *BOTH*
that newsgroup and its companion mailing list are moderated.  All incoming
messages, coming either as emails to the list or as postings to the group,
MUST pass through the mailman moderation software, and will not go out to
the list or the group until they have been passed by that software.  

IINM, moderating such a combined moderated mail list and moderated news 
group is very much like moderating the mailing list, except that the "From" 
addresses used by regular posters of messages via the newsgroup must be 
added to the list of email addresses of non-list members from whom messages
are accepted without moderation.  (Or, alternatively, list memberships may 
be created for these participants, with the "no email delivery" option set).

Recently, I have begun to receive private email requests from participants
in the mozilla.dev.tech.crypto newsgroup, complaining about the amount of 
spam in the newsgroup.  I am wondering if the same technique used for the 
newsgroup mozilla.dev.security.policy can be used for mozilla.dev.tech.crypto.
I would be happy to moderate the combined moderated list/group.

Comment 1

[Konstantin Andreev]

It's also acceptable to just make mozilla.dev.tech.crypto newsgroup read-only. Would it cost less efforts ?

Comment 2

[Chris Ilias [:cilias]]

All of the spam is coming from Google groups, so you can make the Google group read only.

Comment 3

[Justin Lazaro [:jlaz] (use needinfo)]

Moving this to the newsgroup component, justdave and gerv are working towards a solution for this

Comment 4

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Well, I gather that some effective solution has been put in place for 
m.d.security.policy, and I'm SPECIFICALLY requesting that that same 
solution be put into place for m.d.t.crypto

Please don't delay this while waiting for a solution for all Google Groups.

Comment 5

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

Yeah, I can do that, if that one's working well.  Last I heard there were a couple issues people were having, but I guess they were just people that weren't used to the new system yet.  That's pretty much the solution Gerv and I were talking about doing across the board the other night anyway (telling Google that *all* of the groups are moderated, but letting mailman auto-moderate them so we can apply our own filters).

Comment 6

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Gerv says he does not have the power to put the solution in place for this 
newsgroup.  So, I'm asking Dave to do it.

Comment 7

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: Sample spam, received by mailing list members, bypassed mailman spam filters because it came from newsgroup

Sample spam, received by mailing list members, bypassed mailman spam filters because it came from newsgroup

Comment 8

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: another example

Sample spam, received by mailing list members, bypassed mailman spam filters because it came from newsgroup

Comment 9

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: third example

Sample spam, received by mailing list members, bypassed mailman spam filters because it came from newsgroup

Comment 10

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Attachment: Fourth example

Sample spam, received by mailing list members, bypassed mailman spam filters because it came from newsgroup

Comment 11

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

It shouldn't be bypassing mailman's spam filters.  We do spam-check the stuff coming in from the newsgroups before it goes to the list.  If it's making it to the list then they're managing to fool the spam filters, and making the list moderated (if mailman is auto-moderating) won't specifically help that.

Comment 12

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

The one thing we *will* get out of making it completely moderated is that the "must be a subscriber or on the whitelist to post" rule will then come into effect (that rule is ignored for stuff coming in from the newsgroup).  That will probably catch a lot of the spam that the normal filters don't.  We're planning to do this system-wide shortly.  See http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/archives/2010/07/spam_in_discussion_forums.html

Comment 13

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Please stop attaching spam. All the subscribers to m.d.t.c are getting it, same as you. Attaching it to this bug doesn't change that, and it just furthers the spammer's mission.

Comment 14

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Dave, this MAILING LIST is already moderated.  I am the moderator.

The NEWSGROUP is NOT moderated.  
THAT is the point of this request.

It shouldn't be bypassing mailman's filters, but it does, and has for a long long time. I cannot stop it.  I cannot moderate it.  I have tried everything that mailman offers to me.  The ONLY way to stop the spam from getting to the mailing list from the newsgroup is to make the newsgroup moderated.  

Dave, I don't want you to wait to do it "system wide".  
I want you to do it for this newsgroup now. 

I've seen the raging debates about this on the IRC channel.  
I'm not willing to wait for them to be settled for the spam to stop on the 
mailing list that I allegedly moderate!

Reed, Mozilla operations is far too complacent about this whole issue.  
It if upsets you, maybe you'll help encourage them to resolve this.

Comment 15

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

See comment 6

Comment 16

[Jean-Marc Desperrier]

Updating the status, as this is now solved. 
Problems with the moderation should be in a separate bug.

Comment 17

[Nelson Bolyard (seldom reads bugmail)]

Yes, MANY Thanks!

Comment 18

[David Woodhouse]

How can one post to the {list,newsgroup}? I've tried posting with NNTP and I've tried sending email, but neither seem to have arrived. Is this just a delay in moderation, or should I try again (perhaps subscribe to the list and *then* try posting, in case it's one of those broken configs)?

Comment 19

[Kathleen Wilson]

Looks like we need to add a moderator to mozilla.dev.tech.crypto.

I (reluctantly) will volunteer to take this one on too if needed. Can someone add me to the moderator list and send me an admin password for it?