602934 - Re-add Bugzilla wordmark to trademarks list

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(www.mozilla.org :: General, defect)

Description

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

The Bugzilla wordmark was removed from the trademarks list in r73696. It needs to be re-added. Trademarks for the wordmark vs. the logo are two different things.

Thanks.

Comment 1

[David Boswell]

Copying Liz and Julie on bug before making the change.

Comment 2

[Liz Compton [:liz]]

Thanks for adding us. I'm going to take a closer look at the trademark list to see if there's anything else that needs to be corrected.

Comment 3

[Liz Compton [:liz]]

David - we received a request to use the bugzilla mark, and in the course of considering that, Harvey, Mark S, and I all agreed that Mozilla doesn't consider bugzilla our trademark, rather it belongs to the bugzilla team. Thus, I don't think we should include it on a list of our trademarks. Perhaps, however, we should create a section of the list for the trademarks of Mozilla supported projects. What do you think?

Comment 4

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

That makes absolutely zero sense. Stop treating Mozilla as MoCo-only. Bugzilla is most definitely an official Mozilla project and should have its trademarks correctly listed on *MoFo*'s trademark list page.

I'll just do this when I get home.

Comment 5

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

*sigh* Just ignore comment #4. While some parts of it are correct, I was grumpy when writing it and didn't put the needed thought or time into typing it.

So, from the research I've just done and from speaking to Dave, it doesn't seem like Bugzilla or its logo are registered trademarks at all. Has Mozilla applied for either or both of those marks? If not, seems like that should be done.

Comment 6

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

To clarify what I told Reed, I was always under the impression that Bugzilla was a (TM) and not an (R), which only means that it wasn't actually registered but that we still claim it as a trademark.  To my knowledge that was still enforceable, it just meant if you tried to enforce it there was more paperwork involved because you'd then have to prove nobody else was previously using it (whereas an (R) means that proof has already been done in order to register it).

There are other (TM) items listed on that page, and it's been said many times by multiple people that Bugzilla has the same general status within the Mozilla umbrella as SeaMonkey and Camino, and both of those are listed there.

Comment 7

[Liz Compton [:liz]]

Sounds like we should have a broader discussion of Mozilla's trademark strategy, probably in a different forum than this bug. Maybe in a forum?

Comment 8

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

(In reply to comment #3)
> Harvey, Mark S, and I all agreed that Mozilla doesn't
> consider bugzilla our trademark, rather it belongs to the bugzilla team.

Although there is a distinct team of folks operating the Bugzilla project (as there is for SeaMonkey and Camino), it has not been spun off as a separate legal entity that I know of, and thus has no legal standing to own any trademarks.

I know there were legal wranglings done by the Foundation to obtain the rights to the current Bugzilla logo (because they didn't belong to us originally).

Comment 9

[David Boswell]

Liz, I agree this is a bigger discussion that should be discussed somewhere else -- governance maybe?

In general, it is probably worth while to talk about what the goal of this particular page is so we can avoid this sort of confusion in the future.

Comment 10

[Max Kanat-Alexander]

Okay. In the mean time, is there some decision here about whether or not the Mozilla Foundation (the only legal entity I can imagine which could own the Bugzilla trademark as transferred from Netscape) claims the word "Bugzilla" as a trademark?

Comment 11

[Julie Deroche]

Adding the correct Julie (jmartin@) and removing myself from that thread.

Comment 12

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

What Dave says in comment #6 is absolutely right. Yes, the Mozilla Foundation does claim Bugzilla as a trademark (TM), in exactly the same way as SeaMonkey and Camino. 

Whether it should be added to the trademarks page is a slightly different question, but it seems to me like that page should be a list of all trademarks the Foundation claims, whether (R) or (TM). I can't see why we would want it to be a subset.

Gerv

Comment 13

[Robert Kaiser]

(In reply to comment #12)
> Yes, the Mozilla Foundation
> does claim Bugzilla as a trademark (TM), in exactly the same way as SeaMonkey
> and Camino. 

Well, SeaMonkey is different, we went through actual registration for that, it's a ® now, not a ™ like Bugzilla (and I think Camino). Still, Mozilla Foundation does IIRC own any trademarks that are under the Mozilla umbrella.

Comment 14

[Samuel Sidler (:ss)]

(fwiw, both Camino the name and Camino the logo are registered trademarks of the Mozilla Foundation. Those are registration numbers 2986786 and 3408425 respectively.)

Comment 15

[Chris More [:cmore]]

Closing old Mozilla.org website bugs due to them not being relevant to the new Python-based Bedrock system. Re-open if this is a critical bug and should be resolved on the new system too.

Comment 16

[Samuel Sidler (:ss)]

Thanks for investigating this bug so in-depth Chris More. Two seconds of time would've shown this bug is fixed by Gerv in February.

Comment 17

[:Gavin Sharp [email: [e-mail]]]

(In reply to Samuel Sidler (:ss) from comment #16)
> Thanks for investigating this bug so in-depth Chris More. Two seconds of
> time would've shown this bug is fixed by Gerv in February.

You know as well as anyone else that when you have a very large bug list to triage, you don't always get to spend those extra two seconds. There's no need to be snarky about it.

Comment 18

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Gavin: while I agree snarkiness is unwarranted, this was a mass change rather than a bug-by-bug triage, and it seemed like no effort was made to determine which bugs were related to the underlying code (which has changed) and which bugs were related to the content (which has not). I happened to be CCed on 8 bugs caught by this change, and RESOLVED WONTFIX was the wrong status for all of them. They've all had to be altered (several by Sam).

I'd hope and assume other people have noted to Chris that he needs to be more careful with mass changes, so I didn't send him an email to add to his pile.

Gerv

Comment 19

[Samuel Sidler (:ss)]

I already talked to Gavin (in private email) and Chris (in Bugzilla, and in private email). The snarkiness was too much, but I was a bit frustrated at the time. What's done is done and I went through all 200+ bugs and triaged them appropriately. I'm sure Chris is well aware now and will be more careful in the future. No need to re-hash it in Bugzilla anymore.