Closed
Bug 63239
Opened 24 years ago
Closed 23 years ago
Remove `softui' keyword
Categories
(bugzilla.mozilla.org :: Administration, task)
bugzilla.mozilla.org
Administration
Tracking
()
VERIFIED
FIXED
People
(Reporter: bugzilla, Assigned: asa)
Details
The `softui' keyword should be removed. Reasons: * Only used in 11 bugs. * Limited, highly specific description that isn't likely to apply to a large number of bugs (as keywords should).
Assignee | ||
Comment 1•24 years ago
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adding matty@box.net.au and mpt@mailandnews.com who seem to be the primary users. It looks like this keyword has a pretty small scope. Do you think that there is a good reason for it being a keyword rather than a status whiteboard flag. I'm looking at keywords as flags that should be meaningful to a large group of people and require a consistent syntax and a published definition.
Comment 2•24 years ago
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Keywords were implemented to replace status whiteboard, description flags, tracking bugs and all the other hacky solutions. If someone wants a keyword, leave it alone. How many bugs have that keyword is irrelevant. If you think there's too many keywords, put some sort of effort into improving Bugzilla rather than trying to fix the symptoms.
Reporter | ||
Comment 3•24 years ago
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What? So any time anyone asks for a keyword, it should be added, no questions asked? No, I'd say that's a very, very bad idea. Do you know how many keywords we would have, then? Keywords were indeed intended to alleviate the need to put inappropriate [PHRASES] and such in the status whiteboard and summary. But they were also intended to represent a large class of related bugs that members of the community often need or want to track. They were *not* intended to be added on a whim and used by 1-2 people in a couple of bugs, or they serve no useful purpose (if you want to track 5 bugs, and there's no other demand for such a keyword, write them on a post-it note). > How many bugs have that keyword is irrelevant. How do you figure? Some of the keywords aren't on any bugs. What useful purpose do they serve? Keywords, as I said, are meant to track a significant amount of bugs that are related in a specific way (but don't necessarily fall under the same component). > If you think there's too many keywords, put some sort of effort into improving > Bugzilla rather than trying to fix the symptoms. I don't understand this either. In what way does Bugzilla need to be improved to reduce the number of keywords? Yes, I am attacking the symptoms of the root problem (many keywords were added at the request of one person, but were never or hardly used); when I'm done, I intend on designing some keyword guidelines, and a process by which keywords can be nominated. Please explain your reasoning for why anyone should be able to add any keyword they want, regardless of how many bugs will actually use it.
Assignee | ||
Comment 4•24 years ago
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Keywords are diffent from status whiteboard comments in one big way. They are meant to be useful to a larger audience. If the flag is only used to one person and doesn't need to be used by or understood by others then it doesn't need the things that a keyword can offer like only being able to enter it spelled correctly and having a public definition. These things are specifically built into keywords to make them useful to a group of people. Some people have talked about a future where in your prefs you can see the entire list of keywords and mark only the ones you care about so that all others are hidden from view in the keyword list, in the show_bug.cgi and bugmail would not be sent for keywords you didn't care about (or something like that). I'm not sure this solves all our problems but it might solve some. But we don't have that functionality yet so I'm working to make the list we do have more meaningful and more useful. Is there some other functionality a keyword provides that a status whiteboard comment doesn't that I'm missing here?
Comment 5•24 years ago
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I don't use this keyword. It could be replaced by a meta bug assigned to Matthew Tuck.
Comment 6•24 years ago
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> What? So any time anyone asks for a keyword, it should be added, no questions > asked? No, I'd say that's a very, very bad idea. Do you know how many > keywords we would have, then? I never said what I felt about that either way. In the original keywords bug #11155 Terry and I felt that keywords should only be able to be created through channels. Hixie was a dissenting opinion. My main rationale was that we'd find a whole boat load of duplicate and otherwise redundant keywords, and going through leger or whoever would prevent this. At the time if I had ever thought we were going to be faced with a group of people who wanted to avoid using keywords for useful purposes I would have written off keywords as a bad idea - I don't want yet another system. But nowadays I think that Hixie was right. We should treat keywords the same way as bugs - that it's better to have a dupe and fix it than possibly not have it at all. > But they were also intended to represent a large class of related bugs that > members of the community often need or want to track. They were *not* > intended to be added on a whim and used by 1-2 people in a couple of bugs Whoa! Where's the justification for this statement? To my knowledge you were not involved with the introduction of the keywords system at all. If there was some private chat somewhere then OK, but you definitely said nothing in the RFE bugs. Keywords were introduced to eradicate cross-feature tracking bugs and whiteboard/description flags. Totally. To consolidate three different systems into one, not introduce a fourth to further confuse the issue. > or they serve no useful > purpose (if you want to track 5 bugs, and there's no other demand for such a > keyword, write them on a post-it note). I don't particularly see what "serve no useful purpose" has to do with the number of bugs. Please enlighten me. > How do you figure? Some of the keywords aren't on any bugs. What useful > purpose do they serve? Sorry, I left out what I thought to be obvious. Clearly, obsoleted or unused keywords should be removed. A keyword that permanently has < 2 bugs on it shouldn't be a keyword. But that's not the case here. > I don't understand this either. In what way does Bugzilla need to be improved > to reduce the number of keywords? This is what I mean by attacking the symptoms. There are _lots_ of things that could be done to make keywords scale. I will follow up with a list, but I need time to prepare it, including filing a few bugs. The keyword system is pretty busted. > Please explain your reasoning for why anyone should be able to add any keyword > they want, regardless of how many bugs will actually use it. Keywords are intended to replace all other systems. Hence, it is not up to me to say why there is no r'ship between keyword benefit and number of bugs, it is up to you to say that there is. But allow me to agree that there is a r'ship between keyword benefit and number of bugs. Keywords with a lower number of bugs are of more benefit because they introduce clutter onto less bugs. I would agree that there is a r'ship between keyword benefit and number of keyword users, but disagree that we need to eradicate those with lower ratio. > Keywords are diffent from status whiteboard comments in one big way. They are > meant to be useful to a larger audience. No they aren't, this is just something you made up to try and satisfy your practical concerns. Keywords are for all designations that aren't logically satisfied by other features (eg components), and the status whiteboard is for the status in English text. Unfortunately the latter has turned into a dumping ground for pretty much anything that doesn't fit elsewhere like keywords and scheduling information. > If the flag is only used to one person and doesn't need to be used by or > understood by others then it doesn't need the things that a keyword can offer > like only being able to enter it spelled correctly and having a public > definition. These things are specifically built into keywords to make them > useful to a group of people. I partially agree. Long term, I would like to see private keywords and such, but within the current system I would never allow private keywords given that folders of bookmarks work almost as well. Same for private tracking bugs. I never created softui to be my private keyword, far from it. I had a definite need to combat a brigade of "just let the user hack the XUL" people, who I wanted to show softui features to. This need has diminished partially and we're seeing more softui features being implemented, but it hasn't gone away. So maybe I'll decide the keyword is unneeded at some point in the future, but I haven't yet. > mark only the ones you care about so that all others > are hidden from view in the keyword list, in the show_bug.cgi and bugmail > would not be sent for keywords you didn't care about (or something like > that). I'm not sure this solves all our problems but it might solve some. No it doesn't solve all problems, but this is one of the solutions. There are plenty of others though. I hadn't thought of preventing them appearing on the bug form, and I'm not entirely sure about that, but we will definitely want to allow notifications to only be sent about certain keywords. > But we don't > have that functionality yet so I'm working to make the list we do have more > meaningful and more useful. I agree. So please leave the useful keywords alone. I'll agree in earnest with any effort to clean up obsolete, redundant or otherwise unused keywords, just like I would with bugs. But once the effort strays into removing useful keywords, I can't agree, in the same way as I wouldn't agree with resolving bugs that so-and-so thought were useful but not useful enough to be cluttering up people's bug lists. > Is there some other functionality a keyword provides that a status whiteboard > comment doesn't that I'm missing here? It doesn't clutter where it shouldn't. It's easier to search. You don't get misspellings and stuff causing bugs to drop off a search. It was designed for this purpose, and hence makes logical sense, whereas the other systems don't. > It could be replaced by a meta bug assigned to Matthew Tuck. It will be no such thing. It was originally a tracking bug that I disposed of, and I'm not going back to that world. I will sooner see it be deleted and have people know they're interfering with my optimal use of the system.
Assignee | ||
Comment 7•24 years ago
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matty finds this keyword useful. won'tfix.
>It's easier to search.
How is it easier to search?
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Assignee | ||
Comment 9•23 years ago
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reopenign for further consideration.
Status: VERIFIED → REOPENED
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
Comment 10•23 years ago
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Just kill it then. I'm sick of worrying about the keyword nazis.
Assignee | ||
Comment 11•23 years ago
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fixed
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago → 23 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Updated•13 years ago
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Component: Bugzilla: Keywords & Components → Administration
Product: mozilla.org → bugzilla.mozilla.org
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Description
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