655129 - Identify which locales still need nightlies on m-c

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Release Engineering :: General, defect)

Description

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

Split out from bug#654152:

> For the rapid release cycle stuff, we want less locales on central, most
> locales on aurora, and from there less on beta, and less on release.

From triage, we need to do two things:

1) identify which locales are of interest to developers, and should continue to have nightly builds + updates on mozilla-central. When we have this list, we can update all-locales in mozilla-central. Who should create this list? Axel? Sayre? Anyone else?

2) When we stop generating nightly builds + updates for most locales on m-c, RelEng will generate custom updates for those stopped-locales, to migrate those users to mozilla-aurora.

Comment 1

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

This depends on bug 654152. Updating all-locales is not an option, as it'll break on every drop from central to aurora.

To quote from an email thread, how to get to a list of locales on central? That needs input from: metrics, l10n teams, l10n drivers, and product.

Comment 2

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to comment #1)
> This depends on bug 654152. Updating all-locales is not an option, as it'll
> break on every drop from central to aurora.
coop, armen, joduinn, are still in triage, so revisited. We still believe bug#654152 is not blocking because:
1) edit all-locales on mozilla-central to only have the reduced list of locales for m-c
2) edit all-locales on mozilla-aurora to have the full list of all locales. Any new locale is added here on mozilla-aurora, when the new repo is created.
3) every 6 weeks, when doing the drop from mozilla-central to mozilla-aurora, explicitly do not bring all-locales from mozilla-central to mozilla-aurora.

This seems to meet all our needs, without blocking on bug#654152. If we are missing something, please provide details.

Comment 3

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to comment #0)
> 2) When we stop generating nightly builds + updates for most locales on m-c,
> RelEng will generate custom updates for those stopped-locales, to migrate those
> users to mozilla-aurora.

(In reply to comment #1)
> To quote from an email thread, how to get to a list of locales on central? That
> needs input from: metrics, l10n teams, l10n drivers, and product.

Axel: Agreed, we are saying same thing here. We think you are best to lead this, hence bug assignment. However, if someone else should be driving choosing the set of locales for m-c, please reassign.

Comment 4

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to comment #4)
> 2) When we stop generating nightly builds + updates for most locales on m-c,
> RelEng will generate custom updates for those stopped-locales, to migrate
> those users to mozilla-aurora.

Splitting this out to bug#657789.

Comment 5

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to comment #3)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> > 2) When we stop generating nightly builds + updates for most locales on m-c,
> > RelEng will generate custom updates for those stopped-locales, to migrate those
> > users to mozilla-aurora.
> 
> (In reply to comment #1)
> > To quote from an email thread, how to get to a list of locales on central? That
> > needs input from: metrics, l10n teams, l10n drivers, and product.
> 
> Axel: Agreed, we are saying same thing here. We think you are best to lead
> this, hence bug assignment. However, if someone else should be driving
> choosing the set of locales for m-c, please reassign.

In today's aurora meeting, I said that Axel and I had agreed Ehsan was best person to decide the list of locales that were of technical interest to m-c developers. However, I cant find this in any bugmail/agenda notes/email, so hope I wasnt just imagining that. 

Axel, Ehsan: who should decide this set of locales on m-c?

Comment 6

[(no longer active)]

Can we get localized nightlies on m-c only when someone pushes to the l10n-central repo for a locale?

Comment 7

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Ehsan shouldn't be bothered with the list of locales on central. I'm happy to bother him about how we build a team to cover RTL, and what locales he'd want to have for that, but that's just one aspect of the story.

Also, John, before your team has the technical foundations in place to actually do something (aka bug 654152), there's no reason to be pushy here.

Comment 8

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to comment #7)
> Ehsan shouldn't be bothered with the list of locales on central. I'm happy
> to bother him about how we build a team to cover RTL, and what locales he'd
> want to have for that, but that's just one aspect of the story.
> 
> Also, John, before your team has the technical foundations in place to
> actually do something (aka bug 654152), there's no reason to be pushy here.

Per meeting with Armen and then Axel today, we all agree bug#654152 is nice to have but is *not* blocking this. Its almost an academic detail anyway, because bug#654152 is due to land sometime next week. However, there's a lot going on, so its important to be precise, hence I'm removing the invalid dependency.

Comment 9

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

Per Ehsan / JP in yesterday's aurora meeting: we need to keep "ar" (Arabic) on m-c to verify RTL.

Comment 10

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Here's an initial list of locales to stop building on central for the first batch.

These are all locales 1.4k missing strings plus:

as, ka, km, mn, oc.

Gia, this is only about l10n-central, we'd still love you to pick up the Firefox localization again on the aurora repos.

Comment 11

[Armen [:armenzg]]

I would like to also opt-out for hy-AM in mozilla-central.

Comment 12

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

Axel: So far, the first batch of locales to be migrated from mozilla-central to mozilla-aurora is:

as, hy-AM, ka, km, mn, oc


Are there any other locales you'd like to add to this first batch?

Comment 13

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Talking to joduinn yesterday, it seems like we could help releng by coming up with a batch of 30-40 no-brainers to switch off on central, instead of waiting until we have a good list of ~10 locales to keep.  Rinse and repeat and 3 batches later we'll end up with that ideal list anyways :)

Comment 14

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

I don't have cycles to come up with a bigger list to drop anytime soon.

Comment 15

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Attachment: Proposed locales for the first batch (44)

Here's my proposal of the first batch of locales to switch off on central.  It's a list of 44 locales that haven't reacted to any string landings on central in past two months (more or less).

Axel, what do you think?

Comment 16

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

What about product, and ADUs on those locales?

Comment 17

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

(In reply to comment #16)
> What about product, and ADUs on those locales?

What do you mean by 'product'?

For ADUs, RelEng wants to create manual updates from central to aurora.

Comment 18

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

(In reply to comment #17)
> (In reply to comment #16)
> > What about product, and ADUs on those locales?
> 
> What do you mean by 'product'?

Firefox product team.

> For ADUs, RelEng wants to create manual updates from central to aurora.

This is about user choice, if users want nightlies in their language, we should offer it.

PS: I don't have cycles for this. All of these points have been made before in emails, quote:

* Axel to create list of locales that
    a) want to work on m-c (happy to work before string freeze)
    b) have the required hg skills to accurately double land
    c) locales that are important in specific global regions (ie china?)
    d) where localized users prefer nightly to aurora

Starting the same discussion again with different people is not constructive.

Comment 19

[chris hofmann]

Talked to both Axel and John about this.

The 5 locales Axel listed in comment 10 meet all the criteria mentioned in this bug, plus have the characteristic of not having any contributors around to review the idea that the locale will be removed from mozilla-central.

As mentioned Axel has higher priority things to work on, so I'll pick up this bug to start the outreach to the 35 or so other locales that stas put together in the attachment.   We will be putting together a message to communicate whats going on, and get agreement from the other locales that turning builds off on central is the right thing to do in each case.   I expect that we will have the list of confirmations in a couple of weeks.

I'd recommend moving forward with the 5 locales that we are ready to proceed with, working out any details in the process for removing and migrating usersfrom central to aurora, and then doing the 35 more later, but it sounds like John prefers to wait.  He makes the call on this part.

Comment 20

[Søren Munk Skrøder (extended hiatus)]

As the Danish locale (da) currently do not have the manpower to be on the cutting edge, we would like to opt-out of m-c builds as well...

All our work is on Aurora now - our last push to central was back in late april.

Comment 21

[chris hofmann]

Thanks Søren.

Comment 22

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

chofman: any news here?

Comment 23

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to John O'Duinn [:joduinn] from comment #22)
> chofman: any news here?
chofmann.

(sorry for rushed typo.)

Comment 24

[chris hofmann]

still working on getting feedback.  I'm out the next few days but will try and update this bug next week with what we have so far.

Comment 25

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to chris hofmann from comment #24)
> still working on getting feedback.  I'm out the next few days but will try
> and update this bug next week with what we have so far.

ping?

Comment 26

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

(In reply to John O'Duinn [:joduinn] from comment #25)
> (In reply to chris hofmann from comment #24)
> > still working on getting feedback.  I'm out the next few days but will try
> > and update this bug next week with what we have so far.
> 
> ping?

ping?

Comment 27

[chris hofmann]

getting closer to the top of my todo list.

Comment 28

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Comment on attachment 545454 [details]
Proposed locales for the first batch (44)

I don't expect this to be the list, thus r-

Comment 29

[Dwayne Bailey]

Locales being translated on Pootle are all targeting Aurora so the following if they are on central can safely be removed:
af, ak, lg, nso, gd, son, sw, zu

Comment 30

[Eduardo Trápani]

For those that opt-out, the language pack[1] will still be built?  It might help localizers and it shouldn't take up so many cycles or space.

[1] https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mozilla-central-l10n/linux-x86_64/xpi/

Comment 31

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

No, all build automation would stop, dashboard, nightlies, langpacks, all of that.

Comment 32

[chris hofmann]

I talked to Eduardo,  we will just keep eo going for now.

Comment 33

[chris hofmann]

ok, here is the list of locale teams that I've talked with and are ready to shutdown builds on mozilla-central.

af - move users to en-US mozilla-central if possible. this probably meets there expectactions better.

others should move to the same locale, but aurora.


ak
as
br
bn-IN
eu
gd
gu-IN
hy-AM
is
ka
kk
km
kn
lg
mai
mk
mn
mr
nso
oc
or
rm
si
son
sw
te
ta-LK
zu

Comment 34

[Søren Munk Skrøder (extended hiatus)]

(In reply to chris hofmann from comment #33)
> ok, here is the list of locale teams that I've talked with and are ready to
> shutdown builds on mozilla-central.
> 

Shouldn't da be on that list too, re: comment 20 ?

Comment 35

[chris hofmann]

oops.. yes, sorry for missing that one.

that makes the list look like below:

af - move users to en-US mozilla-central if possible. this probably meets there expectactions better.

others should move to the same locale, but aurora.


ak
as
br
bn-IN
da
eu
gd
gu-IN
hy-AM
is
ka
kk
km
kn
lg
mai
mk
mn
mr
nso
oc
or
rm
si
son
sw
te
ta-LK
zu

Comment 36

[John O'Duinn [:joduinn] (please use "needinfo?" flag)]

chofmann: 

1) Thanks for that list, very cool. Per axel, we've modified the list slightly, see bug#657789 for details.

2) Per our discussion, I'm going to close this bug as FIXED, and have filed a new bug#713159 to track identifying the next batch of locales to be migrated from mozilla-central to mozilla-aurora.