655356 - [nan-TW] [Fx] New localization: Taiwanese/Tâibûn

Status: RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

(Mozilla Localizations :: Registration & Management, defect)

Description

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; zh-TW; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110420 Firefox/3.6.17
Build Identifier: Mozilla Firefox 4.0.1

Starting a new l10n team for Firefox.
Language code 639-3: nan
Language name (English/Local): Taiwanese/Tâibûn
Contact info: Phokgoan Chioh; Phokgoân Chio̍h; [e-mail]

Reproducible: Always

Comment 1

[Gordon P. Hemsley [:GPHemsley]]

This is a pretty tricky language to tag, because 'nan' is one of the Chinese languages and (according to Wikipedia) there are multiple possible dialects and writing systems that it could use.

There is no specific code for any language called "Taiwanese". However, I am venturing to guess (read: hoping) that the code 'nan-TW' will be close enough for what this team plans to do.

Phokgoân Chio̍h, by "Taiwanese", do you mean the Taiwanese Hokkien dialect of Min Nan (Southern Min), as spoken in Taiwan? If so, does 'nan-TW' seem sufficient for your needs?

Comment 2

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

Dear Gordon,

Thank you for your reply. I understand the reason why you feel tricky about this. Actually the word "Hokkien" still includes several different languages and "Hokkien" speakers from different area still have chances failing to recognize each other's language. But since Taiwanese is now sharing a code with other languages in the current ISO 639-3 table, and there already exist many language versions of Firefox naming the code with the form you mentioned (ex. en-US, gu-IN, or pt-PT,) I think using the code and the name of nan-TW/Taiwanese/Tâibûn seems to be a proper way for my language user group. Thank you for your suggestion!

Another problem in addition, the "Build Identifier" was Firefox 4.0.1 while I submitted the application form, but I noticed that the current version is 6.0.2 now. Would you update that part to the latest version for us when the l10n project is on? And also, do we have to submit other form for localizing the software under different OS? Or all of them would be on with this single application?

Again, thank you for your help!

Phokgoân Chio̍h

Comment 3

[Gordon P. Hemsley [:GPHemsley]]

(In reply to Phokgoân Chio̍h from comment #2)
> Thank you for your reply. I understand the reason why you feel tricky about
> this. Actually the word "Hokkien" still includes several different languages
> and "Hokkien" speakers from different area still have chances failing to
> recognize each other's language. But since Taiwanese is now sharing a code
> with other languages in the current ISO 639-3 table, and there already exist
> many language versions of Firefox naming the code with the form you
> mentioned (ex. en-US, gu-IN, or pt-PT,) I think using the code and the name
> of nan-TW/Taiwanese/Tâibûn seems to be a proper way for my language user
> group. Thank you for your suggestion!

I know the languages of China are so plentiful so as to make the BCP47 codes often insufficient, so I'm glad that 'nan-TW' will be sufficient for your purposes.

> Another problem in addition, the "Build Identifier" was Firefox 4.0.1 while
> I submitted the application form, but I noticed that the current version is
> 6.0.2 now. Would you update that part to the latest version for us when the
> l10n project is on? And also, do we have to submit other form for localizing
> the software under different OS? Or all of them would be on with this single
> application?

As far as I understand things, a newly-submitted localization will begin on Aurora, which is currently at 8.0 (though it could be at 9.0 or higher by the time your localization is set up). But you only have to localize once—all operating systems and platforms will use the same localization. (For Firefox. If you would also like to localize Thunderbird or another product, then that would be a separate localization.)

Comment 4

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

Dear Gordon,

Thank you for your patience. Is there anything else I should do now?

Phokgoân

Comment 5

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

Dear Gordon,

It's been several months and I haven't yet got any reply. May I know about the current status of it? Thanks!

Comment 6

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

Dear Administrators,

We've been waiting for such a long time for this. It's been 7 months. How long would it take to open a l10n page for us?

Comment 7

[arky [:arky]]

Peter, Do you think any one from the Mozilla Taiwan community would like to mentor this locale?

Comment 8

[Peter Pin-Guang Chen [:petercpg] (MozTW.org)]

(In reply to arky [:arky] from comment #7)
> Peter, Do you think any one from the Mozilla Taiwan community would like to
> mentor this locale?

Irvin and I can mentor, and provide the needed services on our bridge translate site translate.moztw.org.

But I'm still unsure that like what Gordon mentioned in comment 1, how should we deal with if users of other writing systems of Taiwanese Hokkien requests for registering if nan-TW is taken for now?

Comment 9

[Gordon P. Hemsley [:GPHemsley]]

(In reply to Peter Pin-Guang Chen [:petercpg] (MozTW.org) from comment #8)
> But I'm still unsure that like what Gordon mentioned in comment 1, how
> should we deal with if users of other writing systems of Taiwanese Hokkien
> requests for registering if nan-TW is taken for now?

I think it depends, first and foremost, on what the intended script is for this locale: Simplified Han, Traditional Han, or Latin (pe̍h-oē-jī). Wikipedia is not clear on this issue.

If we expect there to be equal demand for two or more scripts, then perhaps we should use locale codes that include the script (nan-Hans-TW, nan-Hant-TW, nan-Latn-TW) right from the beginning. (Though if that is the case, Axel might object at inclusion at this point, because I think the Mozilla l10n infrastructure still lacks support for locale codes with script subtags.)

Comment 10

[Phokgoân Chio̍h]

Glad to see discussions here again. I'd like to explain a little bit more about the variations of my language.

In SIL's current language code listing, Taiwanese is still sharing ISO 639-3 code "nan" with some other languages. That's why we talked about using the "-TW" tag in case that the other languages may start their own l10n projects someday.

Within the "nan-TW" language speaker/writer group, there are two mainly used types of script, "HanLo" and "Lo". "Lo" stands for "Romanization", while "HanLo" refers to the hybrid scripts of "Han Character" and "Romanization".

So I think the language code hierarchy will look like "nan-TW-lo" and "nan-TW-hanlo". The latter tag indicates the variations of previous tags. "nan-TW" is a spoken language, and the following tags indicate the scripts we're using for the language. Therefore codes like "nan-hans-TW" won't even exist, since it's not that there was once a written language "nan-hans", and Taiwanese people have their own variation out of it. Moreover, Simplified Han script isn't even used in Taiwan.

I'm not sure what the problems of l10n infrastructure Gordon mentioned would be, since I know some locales with extended tags exist for a long time (e.g. "en-UK"). But based on the hierarchy I mentioned above, if the problem is that the system can't handle more than one subtag, how about we combine the last two layers and make it shorter (e.g. "nan-TWL" for Romanized; "nan-TWHL" for hybrid)?

In the end, our group is keen to help the l10n tasks. If you decide to open both l10n projects at once to enrich the user societies, we would be more than happy to help both projects. Thank you in advance!

Comment 11

[Irvin (MozTW)]

Hi,

My suggestion is that, whether which language systems we are going to implement, we can initial projects right now at community l10n portal translate.moztw.org , so Phokgoân and your companies can begin the translating process and save time.

When the translating finish, we can serve the language pack first at MozTW.org to users, and see the usage and decide which language system we're continue to the setting process of new locale.

petercpg, can you help to set up the translate.moztw.org?

Comment 12

[Peter Pin-Guang Chen [:petercpg] (MozTW.org)]

For translating, locale code and projects are already there so if Phokgoân or anyone who want to get hands dirty just have to register an account on translate.moztw.org/narro, or login with Persona/OpenID and voilà.

Comment 13

[Irvin (MozTW)]

@peter There are still problem that string are not showing at narro, please help to check.

http://translate.moztw.org/narro/translate.php?l=nan-TW

Comment 14

[Peter Pin-Guang Chen [:petercpg] (MozTW.org)]

Please do click Import on navbar each time before translating or the new string won't show up.

Comment 15

[Gordon P. Hemsley [:GPHemsley]]

This locale registration bug is being resolved as INCOMPLETE because it has not been updated since before the final Firefox 17esr release on 2013-11-15. It is assumed that there has not been any progress in developing the desired localization since that time.

If you feel this bug has been closed in error, please reopen it and provide a status update for your locale.

In addition, please be sure to follow the guidelines listed on the wiki for creating a new localization:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Starting_a_localization

[Mass change filter: l10n-new-incomplete-fx17esr]