If I go to the URL above, Mozilla never displays the page. CPU usage is around 90% all the time and after a minute it was using 150MB of RAM (Windows Task Manager). Mozilla 2001011820 on Windows 2000 SP1.
After visiting the frontpage of this bank, I can tell you that Mozilla don't support document.all (line 875 www.nwolb.co.uk). Also there browser sniffing is way out of date. This 'new' site really needs to be updated in order to get Mozilla and Netscape to work on this site because now they support MSIE ONLY! Fabian, I think that 'Vbscript' should be no problem for Mozilla because it should ignore this script type. NOTE: Netscape 4.76 is also NOT working on this site!
forgot to mention that the browser sniffing is checking for Netscape 4.6 up on Mac also!
Setting default owner and QA -
Assignee: rogerl → jst
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
QA Contact: pschwartau → desale
For those who would like to try this bug: it is important to disable TLS in Tasks|Privacy and Security|Personal Security Manager|Advanced|Options Otherwise, you will receive no content from this server in Mozilla/Netscape6.
Oops, copy and paste: my third code snippet at 2001-01-19 16:13 above is meant to illustrate the "line 23: form.elements[varName] has no properties" error ...
Whiteboard: [Note minor copy/past error explained at 2001-01-19 16:21]
The SMapplet.class to which it tries to refer as 'storage' may require the NWGOUtility.jar to be installed on your classpath. The softupdate stuff on the site's front page was supposed to have installed that for you, but you'll have to do it manually, as Mozilla doesn't support softupdate. It'll almost certainly require Java :) I'm using the JVM for Netscape 6 to which I was automatically taken when I first encountered a Java applet in Mozilla.
I have seen that browser sniffing is working from the startpage of this site, but not from the other pages. But that seems to be normal.
The natwest.com one looks different - it doesn't like the use of 'document.all'. Searching Bugzilla for this shows that document.all is a BadThing(tm). Is the right thing to change document.all[xxx] to document.getElementById(xxx) ?
I don't have the time to dig into what the problem is here so unless someone can create a minimized testcase that shows what the problem is here this won't get any attention untill later, trying for mozilla1.0
Target Milestone: --- → mozilla1.0
Try http://www.nwolb.com/ The new system (just become available to those in the Customer Focus group) IS NOW WORKING on Mozilla nightly builds. This is wonderful news -- it's time to close down my old Netscape 4.7 for good -- perhaps. My bank was the only reason why I had to keep the old closed-source code around. I have already sent them a note from me, as a happy Mozilla nightlies user, mentioning that their system seems to work for me so far.
Bah. It says: Incorrect Address You have used the web address www.nwolb.com, which has recently been withdrawn. To use NatWest OnLine Banking, please visit www.natwest.com and then click on the OnLine Banking link. Doing as it suggests takes me back to the original (broken) version.
Bugs targeted at mozilla1.0 without the mozilla1.0 keyword moved to mozilla1.0.1 (you can query for this string to delete spam or retrieve the list of bugs I've moved)
Target Milestone: mozilla1.0 → mozilla1.0.1
natwest have updated their code anyhow, so this is pretty much no longer valid. They are also denying access to mozilla browsers, so this is untestable (unless you spoof ua, and that can cause unexpected results). See bug 66911 +1 on resolve later.
Hmm, over to Evangelism then...
Assignee: jst → momoi
Component: DOM Level 0 → English: Non-US
Product: Browser → Tech Evangelism
QA Contact: desale → jonrubin
Target Milestone: mozilla1.0.1 → ---
Version: other → unspecified
moving to eu-west
Component: English: Non-US → Europe: West
QA Contact: jonrubin
This should go to nitot since this is an UK issue. Updated the URL to www.natwest.com A pop up window says upon access that they are currently testing Netscape 6 browers whether you access it with NS 6 or Mozilla. Please inform the site that they can deal with Gecko browsers of the same version in the same way.
firstly, this bug doesn't have any natwest.com stuff in it, just nwolb.com so we'll stick with that. Given that there is another bug for the deny issues, and that this one can't possibly be fixed or verified until the deny issues are sorted out, i'm going to have it block the other one.
Priority: -- → P1
..now they are ip to 4.78. Could someone try 4.79 ? ;)
we get redirected to a deny-page :(
I bank with Natwest and put my concerns (including the likelyhood of more users being affected by browser sniffing to stop gecko based browsers if AOL employ gecko in future). Sadly the response - from general customer relations - was not too positive. The reply included ' There are no definite plans at present to support Netscape 6 or 7, although the comments that you made have been taken forward and will form part of our discussion for future enhancements to the service.' I think it's the only think I have to load up an ancient browser for now as even MS hotmail works reliably in mozilla. There cannot be security reasons for not supporting gecko based browsers when they support 4.0 based options that have had security issues addressed as part of upgrades. The banks homesite has been saying that they are evaluating netscape 6 for over a year now as well.
Gavin, you can use it with Mozilla -- you just have to tell Mozilla to pretend to be Netscape 4. Of course, since Mozilla still lacks konqueror's functionality to do this per-site, you end up just doing it at all times, not showing up as Mozilla in peoples server logs, and making the problem worse in the long run.
Hi This bug is clearly no longer valid. Can someone close this and open a new bug dedicated to pushing Mozilla compatibility to Natwest (or update this bug's ummary). Curently, this screen is shown when you try to log in: Service Denied: Reason: Unsupported Browser The version of the internet browser you are using is not supported by NatWest OnLine Banking. Please use one of the following browsers: * Internet Explorer Version 4 or above * Netscape Navigator 4.08 to 4.78 (inclusive) These browsers can be obtained from http://www.microsoft.com or http://www.netscape.com. I will send them a letter now dave
Summary: nwolb.co.uk - natwest js/dom issues → nwolb.co.uk - not supported
updating summary. btw, is it still Linux only ? bugscape bug for those interessted : http://bugscape.netscape.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12477
Summary: nwolb.co.uk - not supported → nwolb.co.uk | natwest.com - not supported
Complaints about lack of access via Gecko can be sent to email@example.com I would encourage all NatWest customers to contact this address, so they realise that they need to support Gecko. This problem applies to all platforms. Should the natwest.com site be split off into a seperate bug? Natwest.com works fine as far as I can see, apart from the alert() when you first enter the site.
Severity: normal → major
OS: Linux → All
no, because this bug is about natwest blocking gecko.
It does work fine when the UA string is changed - I don't see how exactly the browser sniffing works. More contact details below: Postal contact info: Natwest Online Banking Customer Helpdesk PO Box 1100 Central House Otley Road Harrogate HG3 1XT Phone: 0845 5050789
I have just received this email from Natwest, further to my complaint: Dear Mr Thomas Thank you for your message received through our web site. I am sorry to learn that you are experiencing difficulties in accessing NatWest OnLine Banking. The service has been designed to work on systems that meet the following specification: PC customers * An IBM compatible PC with a 486 processor, or higher * Windows 95, Windows 98 or Windows NT 4, Windows 2000 * 16mb RAM (Windows 95 / 98) or 24mb RAM (Windows NT) * Internet Explorer version 4.0 with service pack 2 to 6.0 or Netscape Navigator version 4.1 to 4.78 * A modem with a recommended speed of 28.8 kbps or greater * Screen resolution 800 by 600 Apple MacintoshTM customers * An Apple Macintosh with a Power PC processor and MAC operating system of 8.0 or later, excluding OS10 * A minimum of 24mb of RAM * A browser, Netscape Navigator/Communicator 4.61 to 4.78 or Internet Explorer 4.5 or 5 * A modem with a recommended speed of 28.8 kbps or greater Whilst some of our customers are occasionally able to access the service using systems outside these specifications, we are unable to offer support if they experience difficulties. Recent changes to the service have been part of a much larger process within Natwest. Once all these enhancements are in place we shall be able to adopt a more innovative approach to banking products and services. In the meantime, a consequence is that we are currently unable to change the specifications for systems that we support. I assure you that we are committed to providing a first class Internet banking service and will extend the list as soon as we are able. Yours sincerely K Gill
Here are excerpts from a snail mail letter they (very speedily) sent after my comments: ...I am sorry to learn of your disappointment with our service and would like to address the issues you raised... We wrote to you recently advising of forthcoming changes to our service.... A consequence of introducing these changes has been we have been unable to extend the list of browsers we support. However, once all teh planned enhancements are in place we shall be able to adopt a more innovative approach to banking products and services and shall look to extend teh list of browsers as soon as we are able.
nwolb.co.uk appears to be dead.
All the NatWest bank sites use Internet Explorer specific coding so many links within their sites simply don't work in Mozilla. Go to http://www.natwest.com All the links here work but on any page thereafter they mostly fail. Definitely an evangelism issue for one of the UK's big four banks. In some cases their use of out dated browser sniffing denies access to pages that would otherwise work :-( It's now part the Royal Bank of Scotland group so no doubt the issues go wider.
It seems that NatWest have now redesigned www.natwest.com. It looks a lot better, but very few links actually work in my copy of Mozilla (1.3)! NatWest Online Banking hasn't changed though.
I sent a message to Natwest last week, and received this just now: As you are aware, at present Online banking only support browser(s), Netscape 4.08->.78. and Explorer, as these were the most widely used browsers when online banking was set up. The Online department is working towards supporting other browsers, but no specific time scales can be given for when this will happen. I apologise for any inconvenience that this matter may cause you.
I thought I've read that before somewhere....
depend? That's a dup! *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 66911 ***
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 15 years ago
No longer depends on: 66911
Resolution: --- → DUPLICATE
As an end user theres not much more I can do. I have move moved my savings account; I have e-mailed, written and phoned the site. It is a pathetically backward looking bank that decides 1990 browsers are likely to have fewer security problems than those designed in the modern day. What is really sad is that the UA spoofing techniques work on their site - so it is not their laziness to change a mass of code. Just one or two lines stop mozilla being accepted. Barclays seem to be a UK bank that is gecko-friendly, and my parents clain to have had no problems with Halifax (although I thought HBOS and Natwest were linked.) But it does seem really sad to have to change bank because they will not support browsers developed in the last five years.
Two lists of bank which do/don't support mozilla or other browsers: http://home.in.tum.de/~strutyns/banking.php http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/27777.html
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
Component: Europe: West → English Other
Product: Tech Evangelism → Tech Evangelism Graveyard
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