option + command + /? shift + c? alt + shift + c? discuss away.
17 years ago
QA Contact: esther → nbaca
Personally, I would vote for making it 'a' again. I fail to see why 'a' is so dangerous. NN4 had 'g' to mark all read and move to the next group. I used that all the time and never had a problem with inadvertently marking everything read.
Yeah. At least it shouldn't be something that involves more than one accelerator key. It should be key x, ctrl-x or alt-x to keep it easy IMHO. Platform -> All
Hardware: PC → All
Shift+C suffers from the same problems as C or A by itself -- it's quite possible to type it by mistake instead of Ctrl+C when you're copying some text of a message (or instead of Ctrl+A when you want to select all the text of a message), with the result that you lose all your read/unread state. Ouch. Ideally, we should have one letter which with Ctrl does `Mark as Read', which with Shift+Ctrl does `Mark Thread as Read', and which with Alt+Ctrl does `Mark All as Read'. That minimizes the amount the user has to remember in order to be able to use all the shortcuts. 4.x for Mac used `/' for this -- Command+/ was `Mark as Read', Shift+Command+/ was `Mark Thread as Read', Option+Command+/ was `Mark All as Read', and -- for a clever bit of symmetry -- Command+\ was `Mark as Unread'. All this was very convenient to type for English users (since `/' is right next to all those modifier keys), but it wasn't i18n-safe -- it was horrible (or downright impossible) for users of Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Slovak, Bulgarian, Cyrillic, Ukrainian, Arabic ... `,' would be a possible replacement -- it's a lot more universally available than `/', and nearly as easy to type. But It would still be inaccessible for Russians, Nepalese, and some Arabs. So the big question is, are Russian, Nepali, and Hebrew users going to make up a large enough proportion of our user base for the rest of us to have to find a more difficult shortcut ...
shortcuts are placed in localizable fields. if we settle on , the il-HE binding could be something else. However I can't think of anything better :|
I completely agree with the two previous comments. Let's investigate what languages which don't have ',' on their keyboards by default, and then make a note to them about it. I can make the fix.
Ok, can some Intl folks comment on which keyboards: don't have , or / ? which have them in inconvenient places? what other keys they do have that we could consider. I don't know many intl people, so if you can think of a better person, please cc them, thanks.
I always thought keyboard shortcuts were supposed to least attempt being mnemonic. At least 'a' had some meaning. If 'a' is going to be rejected out of hand, use 'a' with some modifier. ',' is just too meaningless.
This page could be helpful for getting keyboard layouts: http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/keyboards.asp except that it is down right now. Try: http://www.macromedia.com/support/fontographer/ts/documents/master.htm
Assuming ms doesn't stay down for months, this url should work: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/keyb oards.asp+&hl=en
Or, if you're on a Mac, open Key Caps and then use the Keyboard menu to toggle through the available keyboard layouts. :-) The trouble with choosing a mnemonic shortcut is that (as far as I can tell) there aren't any left, at least not any which don't clash dangerously with existing shortcuts (like A and C do).
timeless: '/' is not available on swedish keyboards.. nor on danish and norwegian as far as I know. We should *not* use '/' nowhere in mozilla.
One question: aside from NS 4, what keys are used by other popular mail and newsreaders in the market for this sort of thing? I seem to remember the Emtec Netsuite on OS/2 used 'M' for marking one message, and (I think) Shift+M for a thread, and Ctrl+Shift+M for all.
On outlook express: Ctrl-Q = Mark as Read Ctrl-T = Mark Thread as Read Ctrl-Shift-A = Mark All as Read Obviously we can't use C-Q. I agree that all the Mark Read functionality should be on the same letter. R is taken (for reply), but what about E (second letter of "read")?
I vote for: Ctrl-X to mark all read. VERY memorable. Ctrl-U to mark as UNread. keep it simple AND memorable. "/", "," are absolutely meaningless. jy
Cmorley, we MUST NOT collide with other existing shortcuts. Ctrl-x is used for "Cut" so we can't use that. I don't know about ctrl-u though..
... And Ctrl+U is View Source.
As Moses opposes, is Ctrl-E available? If we could use that, that would be terrific.
Ctrl+E would be `Edit Message as New', wouldn't it? (Compare Ctrl+E in Navigator for `Edit Page'.)
Currently ctrl-e isn't used in mailnews. Mailnews is a separate app from Navigator, so I think we should use it if it isn't in any spec somewhere...
I don't think Ctrl-E should be used for "edit message as new." As a matter of fact, if it comes between mark as read and edit message as new, I would rather not have a short cut for edit message as new (usually one wants to forward rather than edit message as new). Ctrl-U is unused in Mail, if I'm reading the spec correctly-- it's view source in Browser/composer only, and underline in message compose. I've got some questions (for mpt or others who can answer): 1. What's C-J reserved for? what window manager uses C-J? 2. Will we place "Mark Read" and "Mark Unread" functionality on the same accelerator (in effect, "Toggle Read status")? If (2), I think C-U would work (for "Toggle Unread-read") If not, C-E seems the best choice. Just a side note: I use pine. everything is a one-letter shortcut (no modifier keys). I assume that people think that this doesn't work well for windowed systems?
> I don't think Ctrl-E should be used for "edit message as new." If Ctrl+E in Navigator edits the current document, people are going to be annoyed when they try it in Messenger and it does something different. > if it comes between mark as read and edit message as new It doesn't need to, if `,' is used for the marking as read commands. (`E' makes no more sense than `,' for that.) > usually one wants to forward rather than edit message as new Forward already has a shortcut, though currently it's the wrong one. (If Ctrl+L in Messenger lets you send the current document on to someone else, people are going to be annoyed when they try it in Navigator and it does something different -- i.e., if it doesn't do `Send Page'. Ctrl+K should be used for both commands, since it was used for `Forward' in 4.x.) > Ctrl-U is unused in Mail If Ctrl+U in Navigator views the source of the current document, people are going to be annoyed when they try it in Messenger and it does something different (i.e. nothing). > 2. Will we place "Mark Read" and "Mark Unread" functionality on the same > accelerator (in effect, "Toggle Read status")? You can't do that for multiple messages, such as `Mark Thread Read' or `Mark All Read' for example, since they may be a mixture of read and unread and toggling them would be guaranteed to be not what you want. But that may work for individual messages. > Just a side note: I use pine. everything is a one-letter shortcut (no modifier > keys). I assume that people think that this doesn't work well for windowed > systems? That's the reason bug 66495 was filed in the first place.
dear god, this is a mess... first of all, mpt: i like the idea of having one letter combined with different modifiers, on the principle that it may be easier for some to memorize, but you can't use "ctrl+alt" since that combination is two-thirds of all three-fingered salutes you can give a computer (ctrl+alt+del, ctrl+alt+bksp, etc.). that's not to say that people would accidentally hit delete along with ctrl and alt, but i just think those two together are slightly sacred in a perverse way. i would have liked cmorley's ctrl+x and ctrl+u, but they don't cover all our cases, and they're both taken. we might switch things around a bit by stealing ctrl+u from "view message source," since it's not a frequent task for most users, but i'm not sure that introducing the inconsistency of what ctrl+u does would be a good thing, and it doesn't really address the problem at hand of marking all read anyway. ctrl+shift+c isn't entirely unreasonable, since in a bunch of mail and news readers, the task of marking all read is called "catch up," but i don't think any of us particularly like hitting that many modifiers. "a" by it's own isn't good enough, since it's too easy to do the wrong thing... on the other hand, i've never done the wrong thing with it, and i wonder if any real users (who have little concept of what a user interface is) have actually had any problems with it either. is it naive to think that shift+a is an appropriate solution?...
> is it naive to think that shift+a is an appropriate solution?... < it's quite possible to type it by mistake instead of [...] Ctrl+A when you want < to select all the text of a message)
IMHO, the 1-key shortcut for mark all read was one of the best things you did to news reading. I miss it already. :( If I have to use two hands to make a shortcut work, it ain't a shortcut. If you *must* resort to a key combination, please keep those of us with small hands/short fingers in mind. I'm right-handed. My right hand is almost constantly on my touchpad, unless I'm composing something. I use my left hand for virtually all the shortcuts. CTRL-U simply does not work using just my left hand, unless I use the CTRL key on the right side of the keyboard, which is very unnatural. I imagine left-handed folks have the same issues, but in reverse. I don't really care what keys are used for shortcuts, as long as I can do it easily with one hand. And for the record, I vote for restoring mark all read to the single "a". It was great!
When looking for new shortcuts, you can use this spec: www.mozilla.org/projects/ui/accessibility/mozkeyintro.html
I just migrated from netscape4 to mozilla news. I really, really lack 'g' hotkey. For the two things: 1) Ctr-Shift-C is hard to press (Alt-C would be better, 'g' is the best, I know what I am doing) 2) Ctrl-Shift-C does not move to the next newsgroup with unread messages. What would be wrong with adding 'g' hotkey and possibly some preference setting to disable it if someone is unhappy? By the way: making frequent actions difficult to execute just because they are sometimes incorrectly used is not a good way. The good way is to provide some kind of undo.
Well, at present there is no undo function, though an enhancement bug is open on it http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65775 One button - I don't think so until undo is available. I just mistakenly hammered away 500+ messages in netscape via shift-C and there is no undo function (and now way for me to go back prior state). I am not a happy camper.
I prefer the "G" key to mark all read and move to the next group just like in Netscape 4.x. To me, having to press 3 keys is not a shortcut. I hope you restore the "G" functionality (or have it as an option in the prefs file that people can enable if they want to). Thanks!
This bug is not about the missing "Go to next group" functionality, this is about the "mark all read" keyboard shortcut; they are distinct. You want bug 59263,
I prefer a single key for "mark all read"...the "a" key would work fine for me.
Well, I vote for going back to shift+C, the same as NN4 used, but also having an UNDO. This has the advantage of not clashing with ICQ as well as being easy for people upgrading from NN4 to use.
*** Bug 189654 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Karsten, it seems to me ctrl+shift+c is pretty well ingrained. Given that last comment is 5 years ago and no consensus on a change, seems this should be closed or changed to OS specific for mac or whomever (or suggestion needed on how proceed to a resolution). wdy think?
Severity: normal → minor
QA Contact: laurel
Assignee: mail → nobody
QA Contact: message-display
Closing as WONTFIX/BIKESHEDDED based on comment 33
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 7 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
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