Closed Bug 694842 Opened 8 years ago Closed 8 years ago

Consider removing "like Firefox"

Categories

(Camino Graveyard :: General, defect, minor)

All
macOS
defect
Not set
minor

Tracking

(Not tracked)

RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: stuart.morgan+bugzilla, Unassigned)

Details

Once we release 2.1, we should look at removing the soft UA spoof of "like Firefox 3.6" in a .x update. My gut feeling is that since we are a ways behind Firefox now, and will becoming increasingly behind, it's going to do more harm than good, since a bunch of big sites are doing update evangelism to Firefox users. We get a reasonable amount of feedback of the form "why does site X tell me I'm using an old version of Firefox"?

We should try doing some testing and see what it looks like.
Flags: camino2.1.1?
I'm very hesitant to do this because my feeling is that things have gotten worse over time wrt sites sniffing and requiring Firefox, but we should certainly get some data and see.

Chris has been running without that for some time, so he probably has some idea  of what's broken.  I'll try to remember to turn it off, too.
I haven't seen any problems running like this in a while, but every so often I do run into something. Probably not enough to argue against at least trying it for now, though.
One biggie: http://www.yahoo.co.jp/ (bug 487887)
not better, not worse: icloud.com (I'm not sure what they sniff for: Fx 4, or FX 4 + capabilities).

I'll try to spend some time with bug 334967… I don't think things have really gotten better, unfortunately.
A bunch of sites that run on (older) versions of ASP.net sending (broken) xml data when Opera or Gecko-without-Firefox is detected.
That lead to this:
http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/2011/09/28/no-more-xml-parsing-failed-errors

3 of the 4 sites in the 2nd parag of that article would be broken on Camino (a number of them a prolly listed in the TE bug).
(In reply to philippe from comment #4)
> 3 of the 4 sites in the 2nd parag of that article would be broken on Camino
> (a number of them a prolly listed in the TE bug).

http://www.sharebuilder.com/ is broken so badly that the XML parsing error doesn't even fully display (although a reload forces the error page to display the error message)!

(In reply to philippe from comment #3)
> One biggie: http://www.yahoo.co.jp/ (bug 487887)

Ironically, the minimal page urges us to upgrade to IE6(!) or higher, Firefox 3 or higher, or Safari 3 or higher :P
If we really have the time, we ought to check the Alexa Top 100 (plus the top 25 or so for each of Japan, Germany, France, and Spain or Italy) with and without the override: http://www.alexa.com/topsites
(In reply to philippe from comment #3)
> I don't think things have really gotten better, unfortunately.

To be clear: I don't really expect that things have gotten better, it's just that there is now a potentially significant downside to having the spoofing that might cause it to be a net loss on the whole.

But I guess unless sites are doing hard roadblocks against 3.6, they probably actually require 4+, so maybe the downside is just a minor annoyance on sites doing soft pushes.
(In reply to Stuart Morgan from comment #7)
> But I guess unless sites are doing hard roadblocks against 3.6, they
> probably actually require 4+, so maybe the downside is just a minor
> annoyance on sites doing soft pushes.

Yeah, I understand that those are annoying and confusing (like the whole Twitter-and-2.0 thing), but if reverting the soft spoof causes significant numbers of sites, or sites of significant importance, to actually break, then that's worse.

The ASP.net thing is certainly going to be problematic, and hopefully the most problematic thing we see, but it might be a deal-breaker, given the way it breaks things :(  We'll have to see.
Stuart - yes, I understood your question correctly. Removing the 'Firefox' override will cause problems: Yahoo Japan is a deal breaker for any user in Japan, the ASP.net issue is widespread (the Opera folks didn't take their decision to reparse in html mode lightly… - and the issue affected Opera Mini which has a huge install base).

And fwiw, you don't have to go down far into the Alexa top 25 to discover issues. You can stop at the number one: without the 'Firefox' shim, there is no '+you' in the black bar (and no way to log in into Google+).

Afaik, the top 25 in Japan (except yahoo jp, omitting Twitter and Facebook) work without the 'firefox' override. The devil is always in the details, though. There may be some functionality of the site that fails down the line. See the +you above.

I'm not clear what the Twitter issue actually is. iCloud.com appears to work with a Firefox/5 shim, but I didn't try too hard to manipulate data (not my data, I don't want to break things), and we don't have a mobile.me email.
Okay, sounds like this was a terrible idea. Thanks for checking :)
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 8 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
(In reply to philippe from comment #9)
> I'm not clear what the Twitter issue actually is.

The one I was referring to was Twitter pushing Firefox 3 users to upgrade to 3.6 or 4, I forget which, so they kept flagging Camino 2 users as being "not on the latest version of Firefox" or whatever.

I can't believe google.com/Google+; wow!  The "reliance on browser sniffing has gotten worse" situation has gotten ever worse than I expected :(  (I blame Google Chrome for taking that #5 spot (#4 spot on Mac OS X) in "standard browsers" and pushing out all the little guys ;-) )

Thanks for doing the digging, philippe!
Flags: camino2.1.1? → camino2.1.1-
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