69699 - new api newsgroup

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(mozilla.org :: Discussion Forums, task)

Description

[Judson Valeski]

Can someone setup a new newsgroup, npm.embedding-api-changes, that only accepts
postings from a set of email addrs. We need a *very* limited newsgroup for
one-way announcements of embedding api changes. General embedding discussion
happens on npm.embedding, we just need a minimal traffic, highly focused group
for people *only* interested in changes to the embedding api (which is still in
flux of course :-)).

Comment 1

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

endico tells me that no new newsgroup will be created before the great renaming,
which needs a new NNTP server, which is waiting on hardware (it allegedly has
arrived, but has not been set up).

Cc'ing gerv, because I don't think he'll like this name any better than I do. 
Let's figure out the right name, and consider whether other API changes may be
of interest than those supposedly related to "embedding" (which is a huge topic
hole in the barn door through which one could drive a truck!).

Also, you didn't say you want a moderated group, but I suspect you do. 
Otherwise you will get spam.

/be

Comment 2

[Judson Valeski]

yes, moderated. and whatever on the name, doesn't matter to me.

Comment 3

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Surely this is a case (restricted posters, one way only, unknown set of 
recipients) for a mailing list only approach? 

That has the advantage that it could be set up (I believe) reasonably easily 
without needing the new newsgroup server.

There are already seventy-odd groups in the new list and (inasmuch as I have any 
say in the matter) I am trying to avoid creating a whole bunch of low-traffic 
special interest groups. I would say this particular nut may not require a 
newsgroup sledgehammer.

Gerv

Comment 4

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

Jud: moderated by you?

Why not use hierarchy?  mozilla.embedding.api-changes at the least, although I
defer to gerv.

/be

Comment 5

[Judson Valeski]

mailing lists are great if you don't want a record of the postings. It would be 
nice to have archives of these postings.

netscape.public.mozilla.embedding.api-changes would be perfect.

rather than moderation, it would be better to just have a defined list of email 
addrs that were allowed to post to the group (though unlimited reading of 
course).

Comment 6

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Why not just netscape.public.mozilla.embedding.api ? It's a bit less ugly, 
and given that only a small number of people post to it, the problem of 
off-topic posts will not arise. And you can also post pointers to API docs and 
stuff.

You want this in the current setup, right? That would be Dawn or Risto's bag :-)

Gerv

Comment 7

[Judson Valeski]

.api is fine.

If by current setup you mean ASAP, yes please :-). Presumably, it will be 
carried over to the new world as well.

To clarify the intent of this group a bit more... There are people using 
"embedding" apis that don't want to watch .embedding for change notifications 
(too much traffic). These same people do not have mail clients w/ filtering 
capability so using some token in the subject line does no good if they 
subscribe to the group. We're getting requests, internal and external, for a 
newsgroup (w/ subscription capability) that has *nothing* bug .idl changes for 
"blessed/frozen" apis posted to it. Objections and clarification can be hashed 
out in .embedding.

Should this bug be re-assigned?

Comment 8

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

In the new world, this will be:
mozilla.dev.embedding.api - // For announcements of api changes

I don't know who this should be assigned to in order to get it done ASAP.

Gerv

Comment 9

[Risto Kotalampi]

If you want this urgently, please use Remedy (once you've decided what you 
want).

Comment 10

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

I'm still not convinced a separate, moderated group is the answer here. If the
only objection to a [API] subject pseudo-keyword is that some people don't have
mail/news filters, tell them to use Mozilla, or even Netscape 4.x!

/be

Comment 11

[Judson Valeski]

uh, I've already decided what I want. What's remedy?

Comment 12

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

I believe "Remedy" is the new name for the I/S helpdesk.

I'm trying to convince jud by private mail that he wants something smarter than
a moderated group posted-to by gurus who hand-compose their messages, which are
just recaps or cut/pastes of their CVS log messages for commits to certain .idl
files.  I think we want the old Netscape (circa 2.x onward) commitinfo-driven
".checkins" newsgroups.  We'd have to call them ".commits" in general, as the
hand-posted-to layout.checkins naming convention has preempted ".checkins".

We wouldn't need postings for all files being committed, if the goal were to
make it easy to notice API changes.  So some kind of "whitelist" of .idl files
to watch, or directories to include in the filter, is needed.

/be

Comment 13

[Judson Valeski]

no convincing necessary. this was my first choice, I was just trying to find a 
path that I could go down quickly. who could set the cvs scraper/poster up and 
when? I know I'm too busy to do it.

Comment 14

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Note: in the new world, all the old .checkins groups are going away, so if you 
want to use .checkins, you could.

But, I agree with Brendan. People's broken mail clients is not an excuse for 
newsgroup bloat.

Gerv

Comment 15

[Dawn Endico]

please create this asap.

Comment 16

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

Jud, can you help me poke around the old ns tree looking for cvsmailfilter?

/be

Comment 17

[Risto Kotalampi]

From this rambling I can't get a grip what's really wanted...

Comment 18

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Neither can I. Jud - have all your people got decent mail clients these days, or 
do you still need this group?

If we have it, are we calling it 
netscape.public.mozilla.embedding.api  ->
mozilla.dev.embedding.api - // For announcements of api changes

?

Gerv

Comment 19

[Judson Valeski]

gerv, one cannot control which mail clients others use.

Comment 20

[Judson Valeski]

whoops. re-opening.

Comment 21

[Judson Valeski]

I don't care what it's called, where it lives, etc. before asking questions,
please read the bug, everything I think we need is already here. brendan's
talking about automating the postings of the api changes, *not* the newsgroup
itself.

Comment 22

[Risto Kotalampi]

Moving tickets to Ray.

Comment 23

[Risto Kotalampi]

Mass changing IC's ticket to reflect current situation.

mozilla.org, AOL employees:

If you want IC to look at issues reported in bugzilla, please open a Helpdesk
ticket and ask it to be routed to AOL R1 Server Operations. We currently have no
way to handle comprehensive problem resolution through bugzilla. This is not a
change in the way we are supporting mozilla.org - we are still supporting you on
the level as before. IC's support is based on Helpdesk ticket system - not
bugzilla which only few hard-core people are looking at. 

Also, projects are handled elsewhere - not in bugzilla. If you have projects you
need us to deliver please feel free to contact me directly.

Summa summarum: tickets -> Helpdesk
Project initiations -> [e-mail]

Comment 24

[Judson Valeski]

over to dougt. I think we have this now.

Comment 25

[Doug Turner (:dougt)]

we have a mailing list.  I am waiting for [e-mail] to figure out how to
setup another newsgroup.  Over to default owner!

Comment 26

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

Reassigning to default owner/qa on endico's open bugs so I don't have to watch
her to get mail on them.

Comment 27

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

This bug should be WONTFIXed with the new changes being made to the newsgroups.

Gerv/Myk, can you please WONTFIX this.

(Adding the URL)

Comment 28

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Resolving; we now have a new hierarchy which, we hope, takes into account all the current needs. If it doesn't, file a fresh bug.

Gerv