Closed Bug 899235 Opened 8 years ago Closed 7 years ago

Domain and website hosting and emails for Mozilla Scotland

Categories

(Mozilla Reps Graveyard :: Community IT Requests, task)

task
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Tracking

(Not tracked)

RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: david.weir, Unassigned)

Details

Dear Mozillians,

I am David, a Mozillian from Scotland IN the UK what is quite big.
I would like to have mozilla-scotland.org due to we are quite a big part of the UK part from england and we are in talks of going independent we have nearly as many people as wales put together and we speak scottish and galic what is a old scottish lanuage from doing my research it will get used a lot the site to download the relavent firefox and other products what are required for people.
Yo!
I'd like to vouch for this one, deb.
We have a UK community. However, Scotland has a lot of differentiations to England/Wales.
David mentioned using a UK subdomain, but I feel like this is inappropriate due to current Scottish strives for independence for the UK. A new domain would be more sorted since it doesn't give it the feel that Scotland is a sub part of the UK, like a subdomain would, though wouldn't imply too much independence

This would be ovh shared.
Flags: remo-review?(debloper)
Summary: Domain and website hosting fand emails or Mozilla Louisville → Domain and website hosting fand emails for Mozilla Scotland
Try to catch me up to the speed here: are we suggesting that Communities to be broken up in pieces because they're quite "big" and or has too many languages/cultural differences?

Why are we even getting into the political perspective, as if getting a new domain will be impossible by the time Scotland *is* really physically a separate entity (if that happens), and a separate community is really required, it can not be get done with then.

Mozilla Hispano is literally spread across Continents, let alone be countries. Mozilla India has FUBAR kind of cultural differences & 22 national languages. And probably these two are the most significant/successful Mozilla Community in the world now.

What makes Mozilla UK incapable to co-operate among each other?
I +1 the above, adding this question: are we even talking about the existence of a Scotland community, that requires a new domain, website, etc?
I +1 the above, adding this question: are we even talking about the existence of a Scotland community, that requires a new domain, website, etc?

For domain name we can use a mozilla sub if easier

for the emails only 5 at present

for the visitor wise I dont know for 100% yet
I'm not entirely sure what David has in mind but I'd be willing to help out with any Scots Gaelic stuff, as far as reasonable.

On the whole my view is that yes, there are these über-communities, which probably fits some feet very well but I don't think that's a reason to dismiss out of hand efforts to set up something more regional if the feet on the ground suggest that would be more effective. If the promotion of Mozilla products was simply down to a cool product and website, the whole world would already be on Firefox. So clearly something else is missing. I know it's just anecdotal but our experience of promoting Gaelic is that on the whole, people don't expect to find "themselves" (linguisticall or culturally) on these über-sites and as a result, don't normally look for Gaelic on them. Whereas very targeted "local" methods work much better.
Deboper can you please give a update as of above now we have the other person comment
Flags: needinfo?(debloper)
(In reply to Michael Bauer from comment #5)
> ... but I don't think that's a reason to dismiss out of hand efforts to set up something more regional
Out of hand, for who's non-cooperation?

> if the feet on the ground suggest that would be more effective.
I don't see the feet-on-the-ground having much background on community-management, let alone be the effectiveness.

> If the promotion of Mozilla products was simply down to a cool product and website, the whole world
> would already be on Firefox. So clearly something else is missing.
If localized/regional promotion was the key factor in driving market-share - I don't see any of the competing browsers being better at it - yet, they have more market shares. I'm not saying/claiming it's the other way aorund - but, clearly something else is missing.

> people don't expect to find "themselves" (linguisticall or culturally) on these über-sites and as a result,
> don't normally look for Gaelic on them. Whereas very targeted "local" methods work much better.
Sounds very Before I agree (or, disagree) - do you have any data to support this statement?


Meanwhile, Tad - who's managing Mozilla UK community & webops?
Let's hear it from them once, whether they also think Scotland should better be off separated from them.
Flags: needinfo?(debloper)
Flags: needinfo?(williamd)
Flags: needinfo?(leo)
needinfo'd them, deb
I personally disagree with splitting off, however agree that there should be something. My recommendation is that some coordination on creating better content for the site (an about page for a start) as well as possibly country specific pages (1xEngland, 1xScotland, 1x...).

Additionally I am also very aware that Mozilla is now making some big moves in the UK as a whole. Perhaps the best solution is to get a community meetup (now 2 years almost since the last) and spend a long weekend creating content, trouble shooting the community, etc... We might be able to leverage the summit to this end.

In the mean time lets get some content together for an "about the mozilla uk communtiy" page, and work form them.

Just my recommendations, and further feedback would be needed. A good next step would be to open this convocation out from just here in the bug, which should maybe be kept to the technical points at hand in its description, and move it into community-uk@lists.mozilla.org That is what its for after all... and this action (the one the bug is for) could have other impacts that should be discussed first.
Flags: needinfo?(williamd)
Soumya,

IE maintains its market share by being the preinstalled default in Windows, working on the basis that the masses use their PC out of the box. Chrome maintains its share by aggressive marketing via the world's current default search engine - Google. Safari does the same via OSX and, on iOS, by removing the user's ability to set another browser as the default browser. None of these paths are open to Mozilla except on Linux.

And if you read my post, I said it's anecdotal evidence, so no, I have no data that would stand even the most basic statistical significance test. All I know is that it takes a year or doing nothing to grow our locale's users by 10. Yet I can convince half a dozen people in an afternoon workshop.
I think the domain request should be approved, it can either redirect, or have some placeholder info that directs the user to the main UK site in the case that Scotland does work with the UK community.

I think Fuzzy has the right idea, let's get the community together and see what they come up with. I think using the same hosting makes the most sense unless there is some sort of obstacle.
Personally, I'm not convinced splitting off from the "UK" community in the long term is the best idea.

I put "UK" in inverted commas because there have been discussions about what to do with Northern Ireland. While legally a part of the UK, it makes much more sense to come under the bracket of the Irish community (since it's on the Irish mainland, and news of events or goings on in Dublin are probably going to be more relevant to a Mozillian in Belfast than news of events in London). Similarly, Scotland isn't an island independent of Great Britain: talk of an event in Newcastle (or wherever) is going to be potentially relevant to both English and Scottish Mozillians.

A more accurate description of the community as it currently stands would probably be the "British mainland" community (although one could argue that, due to failings on my part, we're just a London community).

I don't think we should be deciding community on political and legal boundaries, but on what works most effectively. Whether that's a UK and Ireland community (which there have been brief talks about before), a British Community, or whatever, the name of the community should reflect whatever area we cover, not the community reflecting boundaries. So, if Scotland does gain independence, but we think working as a "British mainland" community works best, then what's to stop us being the UK and Scotland community?

That all being said, let's not beat around the bush, the UK community is currently failing as a community. Why that is, and what people are doing to get it going is a discussion for another place (but let me say, I don't want to discourage the efforts that people *are* making, they're more than I'm currently able to do). So, if the Scottish community just wants to get going, I see no reason to stop people from doing so. If Scotland wants to fork, there's no reason we can't merge again in future.

As Fuzzy says, I think a face-to-face discussion about community would be good. The Summit could work well for a short initial one, and there's the added bonus that many of our neighbours will most probably be there (especially the Irish community).
Flags: needinfo?(leo)
I am supportive of the general motion that Fuzzy & Leo has shared.

If they see a possibility of making it work out - starting with a better/face-to-face communication among themselves - my full support goes for it. I think we can afford to wait 2-3 more weeks before making such a big decision.
so aware we have not met yet and i have spoke to a freind who does not want to be banned and he is willing to help on the back end of managing this
Hello Nikos 

can we get your throughts on this

as would be good to get it approved this month I hope well in november
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
Hi,

Probably I misunderstood some thins in the conversation. Having a email like the one you suggested on 915401 definitely doesn't depend on this discussion and in fact can help move this forward for Scotland without the need of splitting up the websites.
No longer blocks: 915401
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
With no affinity (even though I have) towards whether the Mozilla Scotland community is "to be, or not to be" split from Mozilla UK - I am yet to understand, why having a domain is a blocker to it.

In fact, recently we're having a domain request boom for the communities which will-form-if-they-get-the-domain. Am I here to understand that a community can't be formed, or engaged at all without a domain?

Because, showing existing community activities & member participation of Mozilla Scotland would've helped make much stronger case to prove the requirement for the domain, in my opinion.
I'd agree that resources should be given to the communities who actually need them

You don't currently qualify for auto-approval, sadly. Also, since this isn't an established project, remo are unlikely to approve.

If you can display an active Scottish community, then you'll have a significantly higher chance with this request.

Sorry, but resources are limited, so we do have to implicate policies like the ones we have.
If i am reading this bug Lucy has said a domain would be fine with it redirect to Mozilla uk so can you please at least just do that
Hello Michael can you please add rough stats of how many people download and uses Mozilla products
Flags: needinfo?(fios)
Lucy who?

Mozilla stats don't mean much to this bug. We need an actual *community*. Users can be part of that, but there needs to be some evidence of engagement with them, and the existence of people in Scotland interested in Mozilla.

Purchasing a domain to redirect to Mozilla UK makes little sense to me. Most Scots know they are actually part of the UK, and would come across the UK site if they wanted a local community anyways.

However, this is not my call. Would you like to have this re-reviewed?
David, you mean me? I don't have much data except for the somewhat disappointing Gaelic stats. Mozilla I'm sure has way more data than I do on download figures for UK regions.

Somewhat related to Bug 978763 I guess, perhaps such regional data could be added? The the moment I as a localizer have no way to access this data except via filing a bug to request it.
Flags: needinfo?(fios)
Summary: Domain and website hosting fand emails for Mozilla Scotland → Domain and website hosting and emails for Mozilla Scotland
(In reply to Majken Connor [Kensie] from comment #11)
> I think the domain request should be approved, it can either redirect, or
> have some placeholder info that directs the user to the main UK site in the
> case that Scotland does work with the UK community.
> 
> I think Fuzzy has the right idea, let's get the community together and see
> what they come up with. I think using the same hosting makes the most sense
> unless there is some sort of obstacle.

I agree with Kenzie about the domain name for this, I believe she is on the council still

Just a domain name would be fine for us at present with redirect to Mozilla UK
Flags: remo-review?(debloper)
Flags: remo-approval?
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
I don't see how something has changed since the initial discussion, unless I'm missing something here. We still have no data about the work of the Scottish community to justify a separate domain.
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
Mozilla.scot if possible we have our own local
Changing flags since this just needs Reps review and not Council approval.

satdav, please provide Nikos the information he requested in comment 24.
Flags: remo-review?(comzeradd)
Flags: remo-approval?
Flags: needinfo?(david.weir)
for proof it would be good as I see Mozilla is working with SQA


Please see http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/viewforum.php?f=28&sid=838e85f10079f0cc2b369d2a52ef0552 what is the official site we are using at present 

I know its not in english but its in GD what is the native for scotland locale
Flags: needinfo?(david.weir)
SQA is working with Mozilla? Really? Not being sarcastic, it's just news to me.

As for Fòram na Gàidhlig, yes, we're using that as a general support site for people who aren't on Facebook (there's also http://www.igaidhlig.net/en/ by the way) but I'm not entirely sure David what you are trying to say in that last post?
I think this discussion is leading outside of the boundaries of what we should be using bugzilla for. 

I'm not sure anything has changed since the last time this was reviewed, so it might be worth closing this bug and you guys moving to a discussion platform (maybe discourse?) and working on exploring what a Scottish community would look like? And look into whether people actually want one. Right now it's a couple of people asking for a domain name. 

If you can give us solid facts showing an active community, your chances are probably a lot higher for this to be approved.

nikos, could you give your input please?
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
I agree that it is probably a bit premature to set this up without a solid Scotland community, and Mozilla UK should help serve any immediate needs.
Agree too. There will be a UK community category on Discourse soon, where these kind of discussions can take place.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 7 years ago
Flags: remo-review?(comzeradd)
Flags: remo-review-
Flags: needinfo?(comzeradd)
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
I've started a discussion at https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/t/what-does-the-scottish-community-need/946

It's far from summarising everything said in this thread, so if everybody could provide their input, that would be great.
Product: Mozilla Reps → Mozilla Reps Graveyard
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